RR8 - God in Suburbia

[nocho]

Assuming GK is still at war with us, Joao and Hannibal, can't we just burn those troops to capture the Hindu shrine? I guess majority of troops would still be in the process of relocation when you finish your set, though...

If you want to stop producing troops, can't we just build wealth everywhere in order to move up the slider to get that research going? Not looking at any save here, so don't know if it makes much sense, but I thought to throw it up for consideration.

I'm not against those trades you propose. It was vetoed away though when I proposed something similar before my set.

 

[r_rolo1]

As I said I couldn't get to it on the weekend, currently is the "first thing this week" So I can play...

The week starts on 00:00 h of Sunday

Anyway, I agree that we can't definitely sit on cannons for this one and that we will need to atleast resort to arties to clean the map out. I agree with the tech trades, but i fail to see how to get FM and SP at the same time and definitely SP is far better for us. Also yes to disband the worst trebs to save some coins.

On target ... well, tricky. Han is pretty much beaten up, that is for sure, but we don't want to kill him just yet, because of the border issues we would surely get, as Silu pointed... maybe the only thing we can is really spam infantry/arty stacks and rumble the world with it.


P.S 26ºC ? You call that hot ? For some reason we call those whitewash northern European "lobsters" when they come here in summer because they quickly become like this: ) Just for comparison, I just looked at my mini-weather station , and now in the outside of my house on the shadow is 40ºC , and it is windy ( well, that doesn't help a lot because the wind with this temp looks like the vent of the chemney of hell )

 

[Silu]

Oh right, SP! I thought distance maintenance just disappears on its own when Communism is researched

A gambit for the Hindu shrine could work, but it's just that, a gambit. A handful of Cavalry will really ruin our day when the best defense against that we have is a handful of Knights. Still I don't see a much better use for our obsolete troops so might as well go for it?

And yeah 26C is certainly hot enough when exercising in a way that nets you double the sun from reflections Though I'm glad that's about as high as the temperature gets around these parts...

 

[Silu]

Played 10t, nothing much happened.

- Ran the army towards Mongolia, I feel we should have a decent shot to snipe the shrine, after that we are guaranteed to get peace (multiple techs he doesn't have, and atm he'd be willing to peace for 5g).

- Waited 2t to adopt SP, since a GP was inc and I wanted to see if we can take our 2nd GA with that + our remaining GPr. No real need to save it since only 1 shrine is unbuilt, the Christian one, which Ragnar controls. Get 2nd GPr, so settle the other in Rome, IMO (Rep bonus to Oxford). We had a Scientist too which would have been perfect to use on this GA but I settled it (hey, what did you expect).

- Traded Const+RP with Steel+Lib and took Rifling with Communism. Drafted a Rifle or two to accompany the shrine sniper force. Up to the next player if he should wait for those (a turn or two). Biz DoWed on GK as well and took a city, we're on a clock. Meanwhile Joao did a number on GKs stack. Later he obliterated it completely.





- Next player should probably revolt to SP+OR and start mass spreading our religions. Going away from Merc will plummet our tech rate further I think but will boost our food/prod. I put research towards Steam Power, Infs seem like a sensible goal. Corpo would be better but our damn Spy was caught on the very turn I was going to steal. New ones fully loaded in 3 and 4 turns to finally get Economics.

- Next guy also gets a boatload of funfun micromanagement since our bajillion Trebs' supply is killing us + the SP change affects things a lot.

- Building some semi-weird Banks, feel free to change. Just put them up since we're running ~0% slider all the time.

I guess our Mind-Machine Interface is UP!!!

 

[r_rolo1]

Losing 50 g per turn at 0% ... fun , fun days

Looks good enough at first glance. Getting out of merc will hurt our tech pace, but atleast will most surely avoid striking

If I have time , I'll check this today, but anyway our resident AC quoter is UP , as Silu mentioned above

P.S @ Silu: what is with you and settling GP when they would be immensly more useful otherwise ?

 

[Silu]

P.S @ Silu: what is with you and settling GP when they would be immensly more useful otherwise ?

It's my signature move. Hey, need to have some flaws if I play perfectly otherwise?

In my defense, this new GPr popped with low odds (I guess this excuse would work better if one couldn't clearly see the odds from all of my screenshots)

 

[Jerrymander]

Oh boy, this will be great. :>

 

[Jerrymander]

So, took a look at the save. I guess I'm going to consolidate the economic base by disbanding old Trebuchets, revolt to SP, and build banks. At the same time, I'll revolt to OR and start religion spreading in an effort to meet our secondary goal.

There are two prophets and a general sitting in Rome. Should I settle the general, keep one prophet for the last shrine in an emergency, and save the other prophet for a golden age? Our next GP is a (93%) scientist from Neapolis (24 turns).

After Steam Power, should I research Biology? We have a farm-heavy economic model, which will allow for our land-deficient cities to be larger. Or, alternatively, is the need for military strength more important (ie: race to infantry and artillery)? State property does give workshops and watermills one food, so I guess it will work as a temporary stopgap...

Since we've reached the Conqueror's Plateau, would it be a good idea to start backfilling our land? We will have to eventually. Or should we wait until after biology when the cities can be brought online faster?

After State Property, should I start converting all of our riverside farms to watermills, where I can?

Hey, if we settle the last general in Rome, we can spam CR3 macemen, which can be (disgustingly) upgraded to Riflemen. Who doesn't love city raider riflemen?

Either way, I'm going to play this set in a few hours.

 

[nocho]

I thought the idea was to burn the trebs on the capture of the hindu shrine, not just disband them now...

I'm not very sure where we stand technologically, but bio is definitely a good tech to have. There may be more pressing needs however, that I'm unaware of. Wow, that was a helpful comment.

 

[Jerrymander]

I thought the idea was to burn the trebs on the capture of the hindu shrine, not just disband them now...

I'm not very sure where we stand technologically, but bio is definitely a good tech to have. There may be more pressing needs however, that I'm unaware of. Wow, that was a helpful comment.

Well, we have 49 Gold. And we are losing 48 Gold a turn. And we are running 100% Gold on the slider.

Yes, I can shuffle scientists to Merchants, but scientists give 6 beakers and merchants give 4 gold... plus we have more % science buildings on average, so if I can save the economy by killing units rather than giving up scientists, we would be better off in the long run. We're paying 30 gold just to keep those 30 units in Joao's land and we're paying 60 gold to keep 34 units over our support limit (75 > 41). I could hypothetically save up to 40-60 gold by disbanding ALL trebuchets, which is not ideal.

Caveat: We pay 33 gold per turn in city distance fees, which would become 0 if State Property were enacted. We would lose 6 Merchant specialists that Mercantilism provides. Those specialists are in nubile cities (meaning no gold multiplication buildings), so that's a net gain of 9 gold per turn. However, this will also open up foreign trade routes with Joao, who we have open borders with, which would generate more commerce and, consequently more gold given our 100% slider.

We have 19 cities - each with at least two trade routes - and each route ONLY makes one commerce because our cities are small and the routes are domestic. ANY trade route with Joao will make at least two commerce, because it's foreign. That instantly give us an extra 38 commerce (!) (38 routes * 1 commerce). A 100% slider necessitates a generation of 38 gold per turn before any % buildings are taken into consideration. This, combined with the above city distance, means we will be making about 47 more gold per turn (conservative estimate) with revolting to SP alone, making disbanding the trebuchets pointless. We will, however, lose scientists.


Edit: Revolting to only SP is one turn of anarchy, revolting to both SP and OR is two turns. Arretium and Rome both have Confucian monasteries, so would it even make sense to adopt OR at this point (25% hammers for buildings might help with the infrastructure rebuilding)? We could just revolt to SP for now (no golden age), suffer one turn of anarchy, and then begin our Glorious Age of the People's Republic of Rome with the Eternal Leader Rolo.

 

[Silu]

No disbanding, we need them to have a shot for the hindu shrine. SP revolt alone takes us out of strike path, if not, a couple of Merchants is fine. Remember city distance fee is affected by Inflation, so we actually save 60+% more than the listed value for the maintenance.

OR was for a big part to enable missionary building on a grander scale. I'm fine with not adopting it but I think it would be great.

OK with converting most, not necessarily all riverside farms. Bio will be nice to have sooner rather than later for us.

GP plan sounds good.

And lastly, upgrading Maces to Rifles would be horrible in our position. Not only are CR Rifles vastly overrated, we're not actually swimming in cash here. A big chance that we won't even fight a real Rifle war and it would be even sillier to upgrade them all the way to Infs.

 

[Jerrymander]

Got it on the disbanding. I hadn't broken the numbers down on State Property yet.

OR will still cost us one turn of anarchy, so I don't really see the need of adopting it right now. The 25% hammers would probably benefit us more than the missionaries at this point.

Also the Rifle upgrade was just a silly gimmick.

 

[nocho]

I think I suggested it earlier, but why not build wealth on a big scale, at least for a while? If building more units right now only costs us more in unit keep and if there's not that much more to build urgently (as Silu seemed to suggest in his report), just building wealth at least until those trebs have suicided on the hindu shrine could be worth considering, to say the least.

 

[r_rolo1]

Ok, so much talk ...

I'm ambivalent about OR, so I'll not be pissed regardless of your decision. Going Bio is pretty ok for now. Disband the trebs on GK cap ... if needed build wealth ( i'm pretty sure it will not be needed if we adopt SP now ). I'm ok on eating one turn of anarchy now ( it will even save us some bucks on the military maintenance of the trebs while moving against GK ). I'm ok with saving up one prophet for the missing shrine and the other for a future GA ( learn something from Jerry, Silu )

Oh, and i'm ok with being the Glorious leader

 

[Silu]

I'm ok with saving up one prophet for the missing shrine and the other for a future GA ( learn something from Jerry, Silu )

I was also thinking the other is for a GA, and that we could grind the last one leisurely when we've ascertained our victory, as we only need one. But as I said saving this one is fine as well.

 

[Jerrymander]

Okay, I played one turn, which consisted of revolting to SP. My estimates were extremely conservative.

Here is our pitiful pigdog medieval mercantile economy before our glorious workers paved everything with concrete:

Spoiler :

And here is our glorious worker's paradise after the Peasant Revolt of 1765:

Spoiler :

Our commerce jumped 100 points. However, our science did drop 120 points as well. I haven't done anything other than revolt. Rome and Antium each went from three 1 commerce routes to three 5 commerce routes, for example.

Edit: With 30% science, we return to 437 beakers per turn and have a 21 gold per turn profit.

ALSO, I was looking at the tech tree because I'm about to steal Economics, but it obsoletes castles without giving more trade routes. Do we want to do that? We'll likely lose around 20 gold per turn and get no real benefit.

 

[Silu]

ALSO, I was looking at the tech tree because I'm about to steal Economics, but it obsoletes castles without giving more trade routes. Do we want to do that? We'll likely lose around 20 gold per turn and get no real benefit.

We want Corporation sooner rather than later. If we can get it right, now, might be a good idea to switch to it right away. With the amount of cities we have, TRs are huge.

I'm very OK with delaying the steal until we're ready to start researching Corporation, though.

 

[Jerrymander]

I can steal Economics now and research Corporation in about 5 turns.

 

[r_rolo1]

Our theft spies have little to none stationary discounts yet, so i think it is worth to delay the theft for 4-5 turns

 

[Jerrymander]

Oh yeah, by "now" I meant "in my turnset".

Speaking of which, this is going to be an eventful one. ;]