RR8 - God in Suburbia

[r_rolo1]

Ok, I took a while to make this start.... like i said in RR7 thread, my father had a surgery this week and I had not exactly a lot of free time ( still haven't ... ) . Anyway, I guess that all of the team deserved a rest after those megastacks and mega sushi MM of last game .... [/excuses]

Without further delay, the still to be refined variant of RR8:

-ICS ( infinite city spawn, for those less literate in the acronims of CFC )

-Must have all the shrines of the world in the end of the game, even if it breaks ICS 

-Must win by conquest. Vassals off, domination win off.

-All the cities in the world at time of win must have all religions

-Can only make deals with a civ besides OB as long as we control the shrine of the state religion of that civ. This excludes people without state religion as well ( either from FR or simply pagans )

EDIT: the settings

Spoiler :

And the start:

Spoiler :

Some points to be noted.
-Not sure if it is easily readable from the pic , but we are near the northern edge of the map ... and if we settle in place, the more northern cities will have more land to work in average than the rest / due to the fact that there are only 2 rows of tiles to the northern edge of the map

-We also are 3 rows north of the sea shore, so there is a place to make a coastal city right south of us, that can share the cow ( yuck, cow as food resource ... what next plains deer ? )

--Having stone is a mixed blessing... we will not do much of stone-based wonders, but a quarry will surely help with some coins. But having a stone resource means that we don't have iron in that tile ( and i would be surprised if we had any metal in the starting BFC from the looks of it )

Save attached below

Roster ( sorry to the lurkers, but this one was filled even before RR7 ended :/ )

r_rolo1
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Thy_Spellcraft
nocho
Silu
Jerrymander

Alternates
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(?) means pending confirmation

 

[nocho]

Count me in! ICS on a lakes map really will mean a terrible number of cities, right? Maybe I like inland sea better.

We also should discuss/define a bit more exactly what ICS really means, like in totally rigid settling pattern or not.

And I hope your dad recovers quickly.

 

[Thy_Spellcraft]

Checking in!

About Map: I'm used to Inlandsea but what is meant with the x-wrap?

To open the leader discussion: As I really would like to play this one at least one difficulty higher than monach I'd suggest Julius. I think his traits will help a lot in this game and about the UU there's nothing more to say..

 

[r_rolo1]

ICS in here means square grid, unless a holy city is not in the right place...

x-wrap means the map is wrapped around the x direction Said in other words , the map is a cilinder ( like the default fractal maps ). In the inland sea it means that there are two north and south masses connected by a land bridge... in the lakes one it means the usual

 

[nocho]

To open the leader discussion: As I really would like to play this one at least one difficulty higher than monach I'd suggest Julius. I think his traits will help a lot in this game and about the UU there's nothing more to say..

My first thought was imperialistic for the numerous settlers we'll have to build and my second thought was organized for the numerous cities we'll have. That indeed makes Julius. We could go with him if we don't do some cheesy praet rushes in the BCs... Anyway, of the two traits in the end organized will be far more useful, hence, I'd like to give Mehmed (org/exp) or even Hammurabi a shot (org/agg).

I'm okay with trying on emperor, guess the roster is quite up to that.

ICS in here means square grid, unless a holy city is not in the right place...

So we'll always have to settle in a straight 3-tile horizontal or vertical direction from an existing city? A few questions come to mind:
- Can we backfill? Say, settling 6 tiles away from the capital and filling in the gap later?
- What if a designated spot is unsettleable because it's a lake or a peak? Settle just 1 tile away from it, breaking the pattern, or maintaining the pattern but leaving that part of the map "blank"?
- A city we capture not on the grid should be razed if not holy?

Regarding the last rule, we can deal with a civ without state religion (pagan/FR)?

 

[Cam_H]

Roster ( sorry to the lurkers, but this one was filled even before RR7 ended :/ )

Rolo, thanks for including me on the roster ...

I'm happy to make way for anyone who wants to cut in. As tempting as it is, I've got some RL pressures, and the sensible thing for me to do would be to gracefully make way for another player.

 

[JujuLautre]

-All the cities in the world at time of win must have all religions

Are you insane? Do you realize the number of missionaries you will have to build ? (not even counting most of them will fail their religion spread)

 

[timmy827]

Are you insane? Do you realize the number of missionaries you will have to build ? (not even counting most of them will fail their religion spread)

Agreed. Quick primer - don't have the exact #s, but for your own city the missionary chance declines pretty linearly from 100% for the first religion to ~50% for the 7th. So assuming the first spread happens w/o one, you are still looking at about 9 missionaries per city on average...if you enjoyed the spyspam of RR6 you'll love this.

Obviously after getting 15-20 cities you can adopt scorched earth except for holy cities but still have a lot of tedium...

 

[Thy_Spellcraft]

Anyway, of the two traits in the end organized will be far more useful, hence, I'd like to give Mehmed (org/exp) or even Hammurabi a shot (org/agg).

You mustn't forget the additional +100% GG generation!! For all the conquering we'll head for, this will help a lot I think.

So we'll always have to settle in a straight 3-tile horizontal or vertical direction from an existing city? A few questions come to mind:
- Can we backfill? Say, settling 6 tiles away from the capital and filling in the gap later?
- What if a designated spot is unsettleable because it's a lake or a peak? Settle just 1 tile away from it, breaking the pattern, or maintaining the pattern but leaving that part of the map "blank"?
- A city we capture not on the grid should be razed if not holy?

Regarding the last rule, we can deal with a civ without state religion (pagan/FR)?

Another question to the rules: do we have to keep cities or is it up to us to raise them (to decrease the number of cities to bring the religions to). And it is said "All cities in the world" it really all or those we own (so there won't be any barb cities allowed..)?
About the no state religion: I'd vote for no deals with them. This may force us to some inconvenient opening that would make this game more interesting!

 

[nocho]

About the no state religion: I'd vote for no deals with them. This may force us to some inconvenient opening that would make this game more interesting!

Maybe we want to be spiritual then too, so we can go religion-hopping to be able to deal with whomever we please, antagonizing/pleasing AIs as we switch...

 

[r_rolo1]

Rolo, thanks for including me on the roster ...

I'm happy to make way for anyone who wants to cut in. As tempting as it is, I've got some RL pressures, and the sensible thing for me to do would be to gracefully make way for another player.

Ok, too bad if your Rl is filled ...

Are you insane? Do you realize the number of missionaries you will have to build ? (not even counting most of them will fail their religion spread)

Agreed. Quick primer - don't have the exact #s, but for your own city the missionary chance declines pretty linearly from 100% for the first religion to ~50% for the 7th. So assuming the first spread happens w/o one, you are still looking at about 9 missionaries per city on average...if you enjoyed the spyspam of RR6 you'll love this.

Obviously after getting 15-20 cities you can adopt scorched earth except for holy cities but still have a lot of tedium...

Ok, if you read from RR6 on you know that my variants are quite... unorthodox, to say the least Nothing like not having cottages, run only eng specs after Ass. Line, launch a space ship and win by dom while the ship in the air, though ( and yes I already played a SG with that ruleset hosted by pholkhero ) . But onbviously it will need some missionary spam.... not as bad as the spy spam of RR6 IMHO, since missionaries are not caught in the way or thwarted by sec Bureaus

My first thought was imperialistic for the numerous settlers we'll have to build and my second thought was organized for the numerous cities we'll have. That indeed makes Julius. We could go with him if we don't do some cheesy praet rushes in the BCs... Anyway, of the two traits in the end organized will be far more useful, hence, I'd like to give Mehmed (org/exp) or even Hammurabi a shot (org/agg).

I'm okay with trying on emperor, guess the roster is quite up to that.


So we'll always have to settle in a straight 3-tile horizontal or vertical direction from an existing city? A few questions come to mind:
- Can we backfill? Say, settling 6 tiles away from the capital and filling in the gap later?
- What if a designated spot is unsettleable because it's a lake or a peak? Settle just 1 tile away from it, breaking the pattern, or maintaining the pattern but leaving that part of the map "blank"?
- A city we capture not on the grid should be razed if not holy?

Regarding the last rule, we can deal with a civ without state religion (pagan/FR)?

Ok, about the leader... Imp is a good choice, surely, but what we really want is org The level can be Emperor if the team wants, but ICS in Emperor without any restraints is pretty daunting by itself...

On the questions:
-Yes, we can backfill
-No cities out of the grid except if holy, period. This applies to all cities

You mustn't forget the additional +100% GG generation!! For all the conquering we'll head for, this will help a lot I think.



Another question to the rules: do we have to keep cities or is it up to us to raise them (to decrease the number of cities to bring the religions to). And it is said "All cities in the world" it really all or those we own (so there won't be any barb cities allowed..)?
About the no state religion: I'd vote for no deals with them. This may force us to some inconvenient opening that would make this game more interesting!

If we can't stand civilized people , will we allow barbarians? No way About keeping ciities or raze, it is up to us, but I guess that, with the AI setting patterns, that we will not have a lot of cities that will fall on grid :/

I am also for not making deals with religionless people. It will definitely make things harder....

 

[Thy_Spellcraft]

Maybe we want to be spiritual then too, so we can go religion-hopping to be able to deal with whomever we please, antagonizing/pleasing AIs as we switch...

We need the shrine to be allowed to make any deals with them.. So religious hopping may get them to pleased but as long as they control theire shrine it won't help at all, will it?

 

[nocho]

We need the shrine to be allowed to make any deals with them.. So religious hopping may get them to pleased but as long as they control theire shrine it won't help at all, will it?

Oh, right, there I thought for a moment we just had to be in the same religion to make trades and forgot about the shrine. Then spiritual indeed makes little sense, as it is only useful when controlling a whole range of shrines, but by then the game surely has been won already anyway...

So that means we won't be trading with anyone for a good while, until we control a shrine. As we surely won't get (nor aim for) the early religions, that'll mean we will be kind of in isolation, despite being surrounded by AIs. Luckily we have the (nearly retired ) President of the Lonely Heats Club with us!

If we stick to emperor and considering ICS and the LHC-like start, I guess Julius is a good choice. I now would also feel less guilty about praet rushing a nearby holy city soonish.

 

[babybluepants]

Lurker:
Really? Julius is kinda disappointing. You can do anything you want with Praets on Emp. I'd really recommend Asoka for this. SPI/ORG is pretty great. Also, for some reason, fast workers seem even more awesome when I play them on Inland Sea (because it's so land heavy, I guess).

 

[nocho]

Well, Julius' traits seem very fitting for this. It's a kinda shame that praets are (rightly) deemed overpowered so that hardly ever the romans are considered for challenging SGs. Maybe we can make up a rule that says not to build (or use) praetorians before we have, say, machinery to avoid those cheesy early rushes that defeat a bit the idea of the game.

Still I'm fine with anyone organized. Also Asoka, though with the upcoming SGOTM and seeing recent SGs I feel more like someone not-Indian for this one. Though spi-org does sound pretty good.

 

[Thy_Spellcraft]

O...As we surely won't get (nor aim for) the early religions, that'll mean we will be kind of in isolation, despite being surrounded by AIs....

That's exactly the "inconvenient opening" I mentioned! I won't strickly refuse an early religion!
Maybe Mehmed on Emp would make sure we'll really think about an alternative to an early/medieval war as this seems to be the common way to win such a game (and therefore somehow "boring")!

 

[babybluepants]

Also Asoka, though with the upcoming SGOTM and seeing recent SGs I feel more like someone not-Indian for this one. Though spi-org does sound pretty good.

Very, very true. Almost felt wrong suggesting him, though the games you're referring to are all with Gandhi instead.
Mehmed is a pretty great choice, obviously.

 

[JujuLautre]

But onbviously it will need some missionary spam.... not as bad as the spy spam of RR6 IMHO, since missionaries are not caught in the way or thwarted by sec Bureaus

Yeah, I kind of caught a glimpse of the insanity of your games. But here, please remember that unlike spies, missionaries have a national limit.

I think you will very soon fall in love with organized religion. And flight.

 

[Jerrymander]

This looks really interesting. ICS is always fun.

Count me in.

 

[Silu]

Yeah, I kind of caught a glimpse of the insanity of your games. But here, please remember that unlike spies, missionaries have a national limit.

But please remember that unlike spies, you can set missionaries to autospread upon completion So unlike the spy game, there is very little micromanagement involved except the occasional reconstruct order if the nat limit is reached. Since automatic units (automated workers, missionaries, execs) know how to use airlift, if there are airports in the missionary pumps the spreading will be very, very easy, if somewhat time consuming.

About the missionaries it takes to saturate a city, since the fail formula is 0.9^RELIGIONS_PRESENT, I believe the amount of missionaries needed to get a city from 0->7 is this, or about 9.82 for short. Sooo taking some autospread and AI-spread effects out of my stetson, I predict about 1 000 missionaries to be needed for a full ICS grid. That's 40 000 hammers, approximately 2½ full spaceships. I'm not sure if that's more or less than I thought

Oh, and yeah I could join if you guys still want me. I can promise to try to talk less and generally be less obnoxious than the last time around.

Leader-wise, I wouldn't really mind one way or another. ORG, IMP and SPI are obviously on high demand, but as discussed sadly those 3 are either very used or very used + Rome. EXP is a nice supplement as well so that would put Mehmed, Joao and Bella forward.