[GS] Rushing early game or just building districts too late

[cylenalag]

So I'm back to standard speed, playing like I'm at quick speeds. I'm usually good at doing 10 cities by turn 100, but I feel my campuses are too slow. Half the time they're in cities without woods or rainforests. The other time the campuses don't contribute much, like +1 adjacency bonus or something worse. I just feel like my science game comes on too late. When you plop down the science district in the capital and all the other cities, how long do you wait until you actually build it?

 

[sethryclaus]

It sounds like you might need to tune your early game so that you have more room in your build orders.
The biggest map I've played Civ6 on is standard so I don't know about 10/100 unless you're including early conquest in that.

2 campuses after your 3rd or 4th city would be my take, and I'd probably settle specifically for good campus placement unless I already had good spots. +3 adjacency is the magic number since there are policies that trigger off that threshold later on - bear in mind that you can include future adjacency from extra districts in that bonus.

If you settle a city right next to where a +2 campus will be, you only need 1 more district in the triangle to bump the campus to +3 and get the bonus.
You could do this with an aqueduct and an IZ to complete the diamond for a guaranteed +3 campus and +3 IZ - super easy if the campus adjacency is based on mountains.

 

[knighterrant81]

So I'm back to standard speed, playing like I'm at quick speeds. I'm usually good at doing 10 cities by turn 100, but I feel my campuses are too slow. Half the time they're in cities without woods or rainforests. The other time the campuses don't contribute much, like +1 adjacency bonus or something worse. I just feel like my science game comes on too late. When you plop down the science district in the capital and all the other cities, how long do you wait until you actually build it?

One of the secrets of the Science Victory is that unless you are playing one of the Civs with specific bonuses (Korea and Maya obviously, but also Australia, Inca, Brazil, Japan), it is a crapshoot whether you'll get a map that's suited to Campus adjacencies. Start bias is one of the most important aspects of the Civ you choose. That doesn't mean you can't win a Science Victory as say, Rome or Scythia, but you have to play the map. If you roll up as Mongolia and you get a bunch of mountain tiles, then yeah, a Science Victory could be a good alternative route. However, if you have a bunch of flat land, don't fight it. Use what the map gives you.

Remember that the Campus is probably the strongest District in the game, so you'll want a couple no matter what victory type you are going for. Keep an eye out for good Campus locations as you are expanding. 2-3 are plenty (for your average non-Science Victory type). The Government Plaza is also really useful for creating Campus adjacencies:

Government Plaza: +1 Science
Minor adjacency from City Center and Government Plaza: +1 Science

That means you can get at least 1, and probably 2 or even 3 +3 Campuses using the Government Plaza. All you need is a +1 adjacency from the terrain (so a mountain tile or 2 jungle tiles) which is pretty easy.

When do I build Campuses? That depends on the map and my surroundings. If I am going for a Science Victory, I'll build one early (around turn 20-30 or so) for the State Workforce bonus and to unlock research projects so I can rush Hypatia if I need to. The rest come in when it makes sense, which is usually right after I've built a Monument in the other cities (I'm focused on getting my tier 1 government ASAP more than getting Campuses out). I tend to build my army and my Settlers in the capital and my other cities focus on improving themselves. This can go out the window if I'm being crowded. So, maybe around turn 60-80 or so?

 

[cylenalag]

Excellent I’ll try fine-tuning my early game. Half the time I do it like that but sometimes I forget lol. For the most part sometimes everything just magically comes together.

 

[Fluphen Azine]

This probably doesn't help you but my next few games I am going to chop in an Encampment.
Chop in Great General.
Chop Barracks or Stable.
Chop out Army.
Go Kill.
Build Campuses later.
Finish around turn 190 to 210 most likely.
All Standard, Deity, Disaster Level 2, Pangaea or Continents Map.

When you plop down the science district in the capital and all the other cities, how long do you wait until you actually build it?

This might not be optimal but many games in the last few months, I have hard built a campus asap to get the district boost.
I might even hard build two for the other boost.
Play nice and start war usually around turn 60 to 100 depending.
I find it pretty easy to ally up with the whole world except one Civ and get everyone to DoW that Civ.
They don't get so upset with you for annexing their empire.
I've read a lot of players complaining that the AI is more aggressive since the update but I am finding they are much weaker and easier to Warmonger against.
CS Levy seems well worth the gold to me.
And that gives you Era Score.

 

[Victoria]

playing like I'm at quick speeds.....sometimes I forget lol.

Yes, the combination leads to issues.
While I love SV I also like to play fast and the faster you play an SV the more issues you have. The more you play SV the more intuitive it becomes but errors still occur.
I’m happy getting about 80% right per game but sometimes I will play a slow game purely because you get a lot closer to 100% and there are always New nuances.
There are 2 conflicting things early as you say.
1. Placing down cities and districts fast so they get the best discounts
2. Getting science going fast and completing districts.

To me the requirement of point 2 makes point 1 even more of a priority if playing peacefully which I assume you are doing. You cannot get them all out but getting out the cities with the best adjacencies before feudalism is key. Get the majority of your science up. Some of the cities may end up with less, it just may lengthen your game a few turns. The key thing is around 80-100 you need to be choppin in these things, and it is not just campus, you really should have a commercial hub or two, holy sites if taking that approach and considering coastal cities, theaters, Colliseum and IZ’s if not already done so. So much planning, and I always want to go so fast.

 

[Fluphen Azine]

The key thing is around 80-100 you need to be chopping in these things, and it is not just campus, you really should have a commercial hub or two, holy sites if taking that approach and considering coastal cities, theaters, Colliseum and IZ’s if not already done so. So much planning, and I always want to go so fast.

I notice top players can sweep Standard Maps from turn 90 to 135.
I haven't done it yet but what is the district focus for fast domination?
How many cities should you worry about self founding?

 

[Victoria]

I notice top players can sweep Standard Maps from turn 90 to 135.
I haven't done it yet but what is the district focus for fast domination?
How many cities should you worry about self founding?

2-3 cities is all you need initially and as for districts, it depends.
You can push campus to keep ahead but equally if you are next to Scotland or Korea why bother. You certainly will need gold at some stage and culture is damn useful stuff for an army. You also have to say, if you are going to take people with sword or horse early a GG makes a big difference so encampments are always an option.

for fast sweeping early armies you are not researching campus anyway, you are getting to horse and iron because a successful fast game needs every turn of advantage early.

 

[Bibor]

I notice top players can sweep Standard Maps from turn 90 to 135.
I haven't done it yet but what is the district focus for fast domination?
How many cities should you worry about self founding?

I find it hard to believe that T90 conquest isn't under very specific circumstances, and a smaller-than-normal map.

 

[cylenalag]

I find it hard to believe that T90 conquest isn't under very specific circumstances, and a smaller-than-normal map.

Thank you @Bibor ! I appreciate your commentary. I, too, feel this way.

 

[Fluphen Azine]

I find it hard to believe that T90 conquest isn't under very specific circumstances, and a smaller-than-normal map.

Thank you @Bibor ! I appreciate your commentary. I, too, feel this way.

That is the extreme part of the spectrum.
If I could start to sweep Standard sized Maps at turn 145 or below I'd be satisfied.
That seems more than plausible from what I've seen posted.
I'm obviously building too many districts too early in the game.
I'm getting better at running multiple armies but I'm going to try to do runs without building districts.
My only problem is that I bought Civ IV Complete Edition, off of Ebay and it is sitting on my shelf, staring at me, wondering when I am going to install it.

 

[Bibor]

For super-fast domination: pangaea, center-location spawn, handpicked AIs.
I'd say Darius and Simon Bolivar are top contenders, where Darius has the stronger economy by far.
Immortals and battering rams are all you need till gunpowder.

 

[cylenalag]

All right, so, with all the drunken threads I made between this one, the question thread, and the quick speed benchmarks thread, I would have made a thank you thread, but I don't want to make too many unnecessary threads. So instead I decided to thank y'all here! I have beat my first Emperor level game Diplomacy Victory (though Science and Culture weren't far behind)(Standard Speed, Tiny (because Mobile), New, Wet, Small Continents, with Rome) thanks to y'all's advice now that I've fine-tuned my mid-game to not win after t300 and instead like t250 . I hope to one day join the ranks of the sub-t200 wins, but that might require a Deity game, and I kinda want to make baby steps first. Gonna try another Emperor game with similar settings, but with one less AI, and two more CS, same nation because I like free monuments and roads and Legions make getting rid of a civ easy peasy. Anyway, thanks again @yung.carl.jung @knighterrant81 @Victoria @sethryclaus @Fluphen Azine @Bibor and anyone I missed in the other threads. I think my next strategic big-bren move is to time my chops + magnus better. I have a general idea, but some specifics allude me. I have seen Victoria's thread. Very helpful, though I need her like in my head to determine what to chop and what not to chop lol.

 

[cylenalag]

I did it again, and faster too! Guess it’s not a fluke. Now to try Immortal (and/) or Domination Victory! My 1st Emperor victory is on the bottom and my 2nd one is right above it.

Spoiler :

Emperor proof

• cylenalag
• Jul 12, 2020

Just my current retinue of GS wins :)

 

[cylenalag]

After experimenting with a religious science game... I get yet another Diplomatic Victory this time on Immortal! I’m going to try to follow @ATEX ’s Religious Science victory a little closer and see if I can’t win another Immortal game and this time actually get a Science Victory.

Spoiler :

 

[monikernemo]

After experimenting with a religious science game... I get yet another Diplomatic Victory this time on Immortal! I’m going to try to follow @ATEX ’s Religious Science victory a little closer and see if I can’t win another Immortal game and this time actually get a Science Victory.

Spoiler :

View attachment 564222

Maybe dont play Trajan because I think generally Trajan wants to go early conquest into any victory type he wants. Religion into science generally works best with civs with early religion focus like russia, japan, brazil

 

[cylenalag]

Maybe dont play Trajan because I think generally Trajan wants to go early conquest into any victory type he wants. Religion into science generally works best with civs with early religion focus like russia, japan, brazil

Yeah... after seeing ATEX play Russia like that I’ll probably try Russia instead.

 

[playshogi]

A key to getting good science adjacencies is when you set up the game, select "new" for world age (more mountains). Also, helpful is "wet" (more chops) and "cold" (if playing Russia--more tundra).

 

[cylenalag]

A key to getting good science adjacencies is when you set up the game, select "new" for world age (more mountains). Also, helpful is "wet" (more chops) and "cold" (if playing Russia--more tundra).

Oh yeah, I can’t even remember my last non-New and Wet map. Very very helpful and I can usually squeeze in at least one desert tile for Pyramids. I might wait for Cold though until I get the hang of Russia though. Very good idea though!

 

[cylenalag]

Finally beat my first Deity game! And I beat another Immortal game earlier with Peter too. Definitely going cold maps with him from now on.

Spoiler :