SAM-01 Smoke and Mirrors

The Random Map Script chooses between the following:
Archipelago, Fractal, Pangaea, Hemispheres, Big & Small, Medium & Small and Terra.(ok, I excluded Archipelago for this game :D)
I like it because it requires you to adjust your strategy on the fly. I think its a big advantage to know what map type it is off the bat.
As far as the blue dot I think you guys are right about not wasting the scouts movement in that direction as we will find out soon enough.
I, too, like Stonehenge as its almost like having a third trait.
 
I posted save B into the opening post for closer inspection and so that we can maybe have some map reader decipher extra details before we launch.
 
Hmm, it won't open for me. Was "Lock Modified Assets" ticked on when you created the save, Norvin? That could explain it.

Also, I'm wondering - I am using Solver/Dresden's unofficial patch for 3.17 (v0.21). Could that create problems if not all of us are using the patch?
 
Glare, I think the unofficial patch may be why you couldn't open the save. I don't have the patch or the problem.

Ah, okay. I'll try uninstalling it and see if that works.

edit: It doesn't. Strange. I also uninstalled Civ and re-installed, then re-patched to 3.17 (this is 3.17, right?) uninstalled and re-installed BUG - but I still get the same error message ("The save file you have selected is protected to ensure that the assets in your mod folder have not been changed"). I did some searches on the forums, it seems this should not be an issue if I am using the same .dlls that Norvin used when generating the save, but it gets complicated depending on what version of Civ one has (BTS standalone, Civ Complete, Steam version, etc.).

I can't figure it out, so unfortunately I think I'll have to sign out. :(
 
Sorry to see that Glare is having some troubles. I DID have "lock modified assets" checked. Please let me know if this is a problem for anyone else before we go to far. Thanks.
 
I'm not having any problems opening it. Real sorry to hear that you're having problems with it, Glare. If you somehow figure it out, we can probably put you back on the roster.
 
Glare, don't know if its something you'd be interested in doing this but I have two users created on my pc. I only use one to play SG or pbem games so that if I make any changes I do it in the other so that I don't get shut out of online games.
 
Glare, don't know if its something you'd be interested in doing this but I have two users created on my pc. I only use one to play SG or pbem games so that if I make any changes I do it in the other so that I don't get shut out of online games.

Yeah I might do something like that. I find it strange that reinstalling didn't work, though - I guess maybe a completely new install on a new user account might. But I also had no trouble opening saves from some of the other SG going on at the moment, so I dunno.

I guess I'll sit this one out, in any case. Will keep an eye on it, though, good luck to you guys.
 
Well, then, despite the unfortunate relationship between Glare and our save file, we should still have me, Norvin, Dave, and radio on our line-up. I can wait another day to start, though I'd like to get rolling with the first move planning (and maybe it'll drum up some more interest, too).

I took the liberty of making a couple of "dot maps"

SamStartTurn0aDotmap1Crop.jpg


SamStartTurn0aDotmap2Crop.jpg


designating the two contending points for Moscow (unless we want to call our capital Stalingrad?). The main problem is, there's a lot of black tiles in both spots!

I did attempt to peer into the fog, and I think I have a vague idea of what lies beyond. To the north, I was mistaken, there's no coast, just flatland. 1S-2E of the Settler is a plains hill, I'm pretty sure. 2E might be normal plains, or a hill--not as sure.

2S-1E, under the river bend, is a grasslands most likely. I see green and there doesn't seem to be the desert to indicate that it's flood plains. The rest are likely plains. Not really sure what's west of the hills; could be flatland, could be more hills.

I turned on the resources indicators, but I guess I zoomed a little too far out. Sorry 'bout that.

So, In-Place we have 6 Black Squares and 11 river tiles. 1NW is 4 Black Squares and 10 river tiles. Right now, the biggest reason I see for staying in place is that I think it's a more efficient use of flatland vs. hills. Staying where we are, more of our flatland can be irrigated, whereas 1NW grabs 3 tiles beyond the hills which, unless there's water over there, cannot be irrigated until Civil Service. We also lose some hills by moving, I think.

Ok, doing my best to add up food potential, I see that we might have too little food to work all the squares anyway. We only have one bonus food resource and a bunch of hills, but here's my estimates:

Base food for both sites is 26. However, assuming we farm all potential land (minus camps for ivory), starting site has 36 and 1NW has 34. (If we play long enough to hit biology, we should have enough food, too.)

I'm still voting for settling in place. I imagine that we'll still have room for a coastal city if we need one.

I also made a picture with potential scout movement.

SamStartTurn0aScoutMovecrop.jpg


I don't see a point to green arrow, but I thought I'd put it in, anyway. I don't know how much use we'd get from purple because of the hills and trees. Maybe blue?
 
Glare, I uploaded a game with the lock turned off. Let me know if you can open it, ok? If so I'm for generating 3 new starts (seeing as we haven't gotten really anywhere yet anyway!!)
 
Hey, I'm fine with the start we picked. I just thought you wanted me to wait until we got some consensus. If not, I can just take the first set today.
 
Glare, I uploaded a game with the lock turned off. Let me know if you can open it, ok? If so I'm for generating 3 new starts (seeing as we haven't gotten really anywhere yet anyway!!)

Yes this works fine. If nobody minds abandoning the original start I will happily rejoin, but don't feel obligated to do so just on my account - if you want to play out the original one I could sit it out and maybe rejoin for SAM-02.
 
Ok, re-rolled and basically the starts are generally similar (though lacking ivory)

Start A:

Spoiler :
SAM-01A.jpg


Start B: (and yes resource flags are ON)
Spoiler :
SAM-01B.jpg


Start C:
Spoiler :
SAM-01C.jpg
 
Ah, now it makes sense for the rerolls. Yes, I'd rather have Glare Seethe on the team than stick with the old start! (Though I might just play it for my own amusement :mischief:

All I have to say about the new B is "ouch!"

C looks kind of nice at first glance, except the corn isn't irrigated. Darn the mechanics with the mouths of rivers.

I'm tempted to go for A, though I'm thinking of moving the settler 1W because I'd rather work the floodplain than sit on it. We could move the scout Southwest to check out the area. We'd lose the plains hill, but it might not matter. And it's not like the cows are that valuable until animal husbandry, anyway.

Since we don't have ivory to tempt us, we probably don't need to start with a worker.

I'm kinda wavering between A and C, so whichever one gets the most votes will be fine with me.
 
Much appreciated, Norvin, I'm glad I can play after all.

C is definitely the most immediately attractive; corn, plains cows and starting on a plains hill, with tons of forest to chop. The only concern is that we may only have those two hills if we settle in place, although the cows compensate; we could also move 1N or 1NW and possibly gain more grassland tiles while having enough hills. It looks like the two foggy tiles to the south are both forested so we're not losing any resources by moving. However, moving down from a plains hill... not keen on that.

B is underwhelming but you never know what could be hiding in the fog. We don't have much to go on here, except we're probably close to the northern tundra judging by the snow. But both other starts seem to have snowy trees as well.

A is also a nice start. We'd want to settle off the FP, possibly 1N on the grassland hill, 1W or 1SW. What we could do is send the scout 2SW to reveal a lot of that area, and the settler 1S to reveal the southern tiles. That should be enough to judge what we are losing/gaining by moving - in either case we'd lose a one turn no matter our decision - and 2 turns if we move the settler then decide to settle on one of the hills. But on Epic two turns is okay. 1W looks good to me as it seems there are more grassland in that direction, my only gripe is we'd lose the plains hill. But cows can once again compensate for that loss.

edit: I forgot to actually vote, hmm. I guess I'll go C > A > B.
 
No problem, Glare. I'm kinda old school so once you signed on I'd like to keep you on. Especially as there was minimal game play and discussion.
My vote of C,A,B still stands but my guess is that there is 2 food sources that are fogged in in B. probably corn to the west and cows NW.
Hopefully we'll hear from radio and Dave soon.
 
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