SAM-01 Smoke and Mirrors

[Whosit]

Just a thought as we wait to hear from the others: If C gets voted in, and since the sturdy Russians start with mining, researching Bronze Working immediately seems like a good idea, what with all the trees (and the possibility of early axemen). C scouts should probably go 1NW, then maybe on the hill or whatever else pops up. I don't think that they'd see much if we sent them into the trees.

 

[Norvin_Green]

The corn is a great tile so the sooner we work it the better (worker first and Ag first) IMHO. Plus if we settle in place we'll get an extra hammer from the city tile so our production will be a hair better than normal.

 

[Xanthus_]

Hey guys, could you add me to the roster if a spot is still open?

I've been lurking around SGs for a few weeks now, and it seems like a blast, so I figured now's a good time to get my feet wet, so to speak.

Usually, I play single player on Emperor with mixed results, so I should be able to handle taking the turns without screwing up too badly. I hope you fine folks don't mind a few newbie growing pains on the reporting, but I should pick it up quickly enough.

As for starts, I like C for all the reasons stated above, but I actually see some potential in B.

B has bare grassland 1L which should be a resource, and a few spots just out of view which also could be resources, plus lots of trees to chop! The key question is if one of the out of view resources is a food or not. If not, could make for a fun game anyway... challenge isn't a bad thing.

A is decent too, but although the two floodplains somewhat make up for the lack of a food resource, I'd still prefer the food, and I'm not a huge fan of calendar resources in capital cities.

So: C > B > A

 

[Whosit]

Welcome, Xanthus! I'm pretty sure there was one more open spot, so feel free to hop on board. And don't worry about being new, you can't be any worse than me!

 

[Dave Hartwick]

I vote C, B, A for the same reasons as Xanthus. B might be the challenge option.

Whosit, your enthusiasm is commendable. I don't think I've ever seen a dotmap of a start point before.

 

[Whosit]

I guess there has to be a first for everything!

I plan to wait 'till tomorrow to hear from radio, otherwise . . . I guess I'll have to wait for Norvin to post the save for Start C on his own sweet time. Heh. The thought of potentially crippling ourselves with B is tempting, but . . . it doesn't seem to be anyone's first choice.

 

[radiofreestl]

On the face of it, I like C best. Maybe we could move B's Scout to see what's in the fog? Not to delay the start of this game any further, just curious *Something* is gonna be out there.

But go with C if you're itching to get going, Whosit.

 

[Glare Seethe]

Regarding C, since it looks like it's won the vote - I think warrior first might be best here. If we go worker first he'll be out in 18 turns due to the plains hill (I think?), but only have the corn to farm if we tech Agriculture first. He'll be done with the farm before we could finish AH or BW, and since there are no unforested hills he'll have nothing to do for a few turns.

Even starting immediately with BW he'll have 5-6 turns with nothing to do. We might as well get out a warrior for some extra scouting first.

That's assuming we settle in place. I agree with Whosit's scout movement; the tiles to the NW might entice us to move.

 

[Norvin_Green]

Well C it is then and welcome to our 6th and final team member Xanthus. The save is attached. After reading Glare's post and looking at the save he's right that worker first will have too many idle turns. Maybe a scout instead of a warrior for extra recon. I'll temper this by saying EVERY time I do this in SP games I end up on the smallest pieces of land imaginable. I would go Ag>Ah>BW and build scout>worker>warrior. We won't have copper or iron as all our non-resource tiles are forested but as we already have hunting archery is there as a back-up if Ah and BW don't reveal anything nearby.

 

[Whosit]

Alright, so as I believe is customary, I "got it." Build and research orders make sense. (I have your luck, too, Norvin. Doesn't bode well, eh?) Earlier, I poked around the first few pages of other SGs, and it seems like, on Epic speed, a couple 30 turn sets followed by 15 turns is the accepted norm, so I'll take 30. I'll do my best not to cripple us from the very beginning!

 

[Norvin_Green]

Whosit, I wouldn't say that you need to stick to a definitive # of turns, such as 30. If something big pops up then stop and see what everyone thinks. On the other hand, if you are 3 turns away from finishing a tech then that makes a better stopping point.

 

[Whosit]

Smoke and Mirrors, Turn Set 1

I played the set this morning but couldn't post it 'till now. Sorry about that. I also took a lot of pictures. Anyway, here I go:

Turn 0 (4000 BC)

I move the scout NW then SW, but I don't see anything obvious to entice me to move the settler, so I settle in place. The game wants me to move the settler south, but it's way too much of a long-shot, I think.

Spoiler :

I take the liberty of giving our capital a more appropriate name:

Spoiler :

Our intrepid villagers build themselves some nice huts, but they build us a bigger hut out of "appreciation."

The nearby tribal village gives us 37 gold and I start on a scout. 14 turns to Agriculture. Growth (and scout) in 11 turns. Working the corn for the extra food and because the villages realized that corn ferments; cows do not ferment quite as well.

Turn 1 (3975 BC)

Scouting. Spot a tribal village.

Turn 2 (3950 BC)

Villagers give us a map of the land to our south. It looks like we're at the bottom of the world.

Spoiler :

Turns 3-4: Hit enter a few times.

Turn 5 (3875 BC)

Get some more gold from a village.

Turn 6: Enter.

Turn 7 (3825 BC)

I find the west coast, though I realize it's past time to turn the scout back in our direction.

Turn 8 (3800 BC)

Stalingrad's borders expand.

Spoiler :

Turn 9: Nuthin'.

Turn 10 (3750 BC)

Meet Napoleon, Emperor of France.

I nab a village even though it plops our scout next to lions, just so Napoleon can't take it. The villagers teach our scout the way of the fighting bear. It gives our scout 5 experience! Hopefully he'll live long enough to make use of it . . . .

Turn 11 (3725 BC)

We win (though don't we get, like, free early victories against barbarian units?

Second scout is trained and ready to go. Start a worker, due in 15 turns. Our highly trained seers think they'll have have the whole "put things in the ground and make 'em grow" thing down in 3 more turns.

Our victorious scout takes the lion's skin as a trophy, so I feel compelled to name him "Heracles" (wait, we're not Greek!) and give him his Woodsman II promotion. Send him into the nearby forest to heal for 2 turns. Our new scout (Pete) heads north east.

Turn 12: Enter

Turn 13 (3675 BC)

Score! Pete so impresses a nearby tribal village with our Russian ways that they teach us that if you put animals in cages, they can't run away as easily. We've learned Animal Husbandry!

There also happen to be horses just north of Stalingrad. Can't see any other sources just yet.

Turn 14 (3650 BC)

Agriculture is finished, so I'll go straight to Bronze Working. That'll take 20 turns. Aww.

Turn 15 (3625 BC)

Heracles gets us another map, this time of the lands far to our north. Seems we may be on a large island or a small continent.

Spoiler :

Turn 16 (3600 BC)

Hinduism is founded in a distant land.

Turn 17 (3575 BC)

Yikes! Heracles runs into the relatives of that lion he killed a few turns back. Maybe he can use his pelt to disguise himself?

Turn 18 (3550 BC)

The lions turn and run from Heracles, the lion slayer!

Turn 19: Rather uneventful.

Turn 20 (3500 BC)

More lions meet their end at Heracle's hands.

Turn 21 (3475 BC)

Heracles introduces us to Huayna Capac of the Incans and his band of archers. Despite their impressive ability to kill a lion at 100 paces, I have full faith in Russia's superiority. Yup.

Probably on a continent.

Turn 22 (34500 BC)

Somewhere, the Buddha has achieved Nirvana.

Turn 23 (3425 BC)

What did I tell you about that Russian superiority? If Capac has bows and arrows, we build tower shields! All melee units get cover! (Hopefully that includes future units. I guess we'll see when our warrior gets built.)

Spoiler :

Turns 24-25: Snooze.

Turn 26 (3350 BC)

At last, our workers are trained. Seemed an awful long time to each some peasants how to use a shovel! I send them to start farming that corn. Our peasants hope we nab some of that wheat soon, because corn-based vodka just isn't the same. I briefly considered pasturing the cows first, but figured faster growth is more important at this point.

Pete, you are a saint! He is so charismatic, that he convinces tribal villages to our east to teach us how to "write." In celebration, Pete writes a "poem" about "corn." While Heracles may have gotten the brawn, his brother Pete definitely has the brains between 'em!

Turn 27 (3325 BC)

Tragedy! Pete's continued explorations land him next to some wolves AND bears. Um . . . good luck talking your way out of this one, Pete!

Meanwhile, Heracles has found Cuzco. He says "hi" and shows off his lion pelts.

Turn 28 (3300 BC)

Pete has been mauled to death! It seems those bears didn't appreciate his limeric "there once were some really dumb bears . . . ." We will always remember you, St. Pete. At least our scribes can now write your obituary.

Turn 29: I mourn Pete.

Turn 30 (3250 BC)

Heracles, mourning the loss of Pete, discovers maps in a tribal village detailed the land east of Cuzco. He also finds more . . . lions. What is it with you and lions, Heracles?!

So, here's some shots of the world (as we know it):

West:

Spoiler :

East:

Spoiler :

And I took the liberty of making a monument for St. Pete:

Spoiler :

We will always remember your contributions and your sacrifice. If at all possible, I'd like to settle a town near there and name it "St. Petersburg." Make it a national monument. Y'know. For Pete.

So that's the report. Still 4 turns until Bronze Working and our first warrior are finished (I hope he gets that free Cover promotion. It'd make future wars much easier). I'll post the save, and I'm gonna draw up some real dot maps so you guys can tell me how bad my city placement is.

 

[Norvin_Green]

Nice job Whosit and I enjoyed your report. Not much time right now but will look at the save later. And YES all future melee will get cover. Sweet!

 

[radiofreestl]

Nice job, Whosit. Some nice hut pops too

Whosit
Dave Hartwick (up)
Glare Seethe (on deck)
radiofreestl
Norvin Green
Xanthus

 

[Glare Seethe]

Wow, two techs and the Cover event, nice. Surely we will suffer some tornadoes and slave revolts to compensate later.

Land looks okay. I'm terrible at dotmapping (many of my games are abandoned because I can't decide on city sites, actually...) so I won't comment too much on that, but I'm not seeing any particularly exciting sites. No stone or marble yet; maybe the latter's hiding in the SW tundra somewhere.

I'm guessing Napoleon is north of those western floodplains. It looks like all three of us are going to have a lot of land to expand into, so an early war seems unlikely. And judging by the espionage points neither Huayna nor Napoleon have met anyone else, so if it's really just the three of us we'll want to keep both of them around until Optics for trading anyway.

No religion in our part of the world yet, so we can consider that maybe. I already admitted I love Stonehenge... we have more than enough forests to chop it out (and with Industrious giving a bonus on those chops it's actually pretty efficient use of forests), and we could use the GP to bulb Theology or something. I dunno, I never do that but something to think about. I'm concerned about Huayna building it since he starts with Mysticism, but if he'd started on it it would appear in the Top Cities/Wonders screen, right? And it doesn't.

Heracles, should he survive this next lion attack, should swing down south and the warrior due in 4 turns should go scout out the tundra SW. Next builds are more warriors, I think - one to scout the north and one for garrison / settler escort.

Tech path - Mysticism if we go Stonehenge or The Wheel > Pottery otherwise, I think. Even if there's no bronze anywhere near we'll have the horses in our borders soon enough and that should suffice for barb protection at least for a while.

 

[Whosit]

Your plans make sense, Glare. I agree, most of the land doesn't look that spectacular due to all the plains. I've got some initial dot maps, but they're mostly food/commerce locations because I don't see a place that provides a lot of hammers plus the food to support it . . . . I'd actually like to get a scout to the Northwest ASAP to see where Napoleon is at and get a better idea of the terrain. Those flood plains and grasslands with the rivers could provide some nice commerce, but the area is still a little too foggy for me to decide on city placement. I'd actually like to settle out West first, because that seems like some of the best land.

It might strain our economy and production, but I think the next warrior should finishes scouting the flood plain area and then we should get settlers up there. We'd have to skip Stonehenge, though. Probably. It might not be possible at monarch and at this distance, but if at all possible, I think it'd be fun to block Napoleon in. It might be narrow enough for us to do with two cities.

Unless anyone has a plan to get Stonehenge AND settle fast? Can we chop Stonehenge fast enough that it won't slow us down too much? The bonus culture would be nice for future cities. Sorry, I'm so on the fence about it.

Anyway, here's my "maps." First, to the west:

And the north east:

Maps are sparse. I had some ideas for west, but would like to see more of the land. Settling yellow could nab us some incense and some nice flood plains and grass tiles. That river doesn't connect directly to us, though. But does it have future production potential with watermills and workshops? Pink dot could be moved 1N to make use of the other incense. Green dot may be unimportant if we plan to get the horses simply from border expansion. It'd get the wheat, though.

I had some more ideas out east, but scrapped them for now because I had enough "grass and commerce" towns. Our hammer potential isn't looking very good, unless I've overlooked something. I put gray where it is because the overlapping tiles are just desert, and it's probably better off working the wine (for commerce and a bonus food, right?) that it is being on the coast.

Hope things look up for us, city-wise.

OK, apologies, just doing some calculations on Yellow Dot potential. There are 16 workable tiles, so we need 32 food. There is 27 base food available, so we are short by 5 food. We could farm, but that provides little benefit beyond food. I'm not 100% sure with watermills, but I'm guessing you can't build them on river bends. And they only provide food with State Property (but, with SP, workshops don't lose food!). I easily see at least 5 watermills. Everything else can be work shopped, desert hill mined, incense with a plantation . . . . We get the most out of workshops with Caste System, though I can't imagine we'd want to stay in that long term. With all techs and other modifiers, and rough estimate, Yellow Dot could maybe do 40 hammers late game? I might be thinking too far ahead, but I think we'll definitely have to get creative to eek hammers out of this land unless something real nice turns up.

 

[Dave Hartwick]

I see the save and can play later today.

 

[Norvin_Green]

I took another quick look and think we can go one of three ways.

1) Just gradually build outward from where we are (boring)
2) Go for Stonehenge and Theo to build the AP and us religion to agitate our neighbors but will slow down REX.
3) Block Nappy in. If we do that we need a little more intel on where he is but you get the drift.

Spoiler :

I'm for the Stonehenge plan.

 

[Whosit]

We're Russians! We don't need no stinking religion! Just more warm bodies than our enemies! I vote for expansion.

Oh, and looks like spot-on city placement for blockage, Norvin.

 

[Xanthus_]

Seems like things are going pretty well so far. Plans sound good. I'd focus as heavily as possible on economy (cottages and farming for specialists) because of our lack of non-calendar commerce resources, and our obvious desire to REX.

I threw up an alternative dotmap covering both halves of the continent.

Spoiler :

The map focuses first on getting horses for HA to defend a sprawled empire, and then blockers so we can get the main part of the continent. We won't have the econ to hold more than 10 or so cities for quite a while so we can take our time with backfill to the north and south.

One priority for the next set is to finish our map so we know exactly where the French are and what possible sites lay to the north.