SAM-01 Smoke and Mirrors

[Whosit]

I've played part of my set, will finish later.

Got Monarchy, Nappy got it the turn before. We still lack HBR, so should I try to trade to Capac?

 

[Glare Seethe]

If you can do Monarchy for HBR I'd do it, not like he can do much with it anyway and you say Napoleon has it already, so why not. I dunno if I'd give him anything else for it, though.

 

[Whosit]

SAM-01: Round 3, Set 1

Pre-set: Turn 224, 760 AD

With the sudden death of Norvin Green the Fastidious and mysterious disappearance of his heir-in-waiting, Whosit the Impatient seized the helm of Russia, leading the people with promises of candy.

Hoping to avoid future succession fiascos, Whosit sets his best type-writer, er, papyrus-and-quill-pen monkeys on developing a code of hereditary rule and designated heirs. He buys them extra bananas for motivation. Monarchy in 7 turns.

Following the advice of his advisors, Whost changes Moscow's orders to train a settler, and shifts a citizen from working a low-grade cottage to the copper mines, cutting the time from 11 to 9 turns.

Magnitogorsk will build a Confucian Monastery, following by a Temple (cheaper to more expensive to get most benefit from hammers) and then the Heroic Epic, whereupon it'll spit out troops faster than a Frenchman can run from battle.

I also shift citizens in Novosibirsk from water to marble, decreasing time on the Hagia Sophia. Even though we'll probably move production elsewhere, it'll mean more gold down the line.

Because the French and Inca know the secrets of Theology, Moscow will work on the Hagia after it produces the settler, and Karachev will take up the Parthenon (requires Aesthetics which the AI don't have yet) after a galley.

Flag our future national park (Stalingrad would actually be a better location, but it's our capital, so . . . .).

Everything else seeming to be in order, I move to the next turn.

Turn 225, 775 AD

After a bit of thought, I decide Glare has a point and I start a road between Archangel and Magnitogorsk, just in case.

Confucianism, the One True Faith, successfuly spreads in Mezhdurechensk, cutting 3 turns (I think) from the Great Library.

Hmm, worrisome. Napoleon has moved three mounted units into our territory. Is he scouting? I give him a call to see if he has too much on his hands, but it seems not. Oddly, he is willing to discuss a DOW on Capac, but if I ask him to stop trading, he replies "We can never betray our close friends!" Funny guy.

However, he won't trade for a DOW.

I notice an Axe, too. Oh! Is he going for Kushans, the Barb town to our north? Hmm. Even though we could get some gold from razing it, I'll let Nappy go for it if he really wants to. We'll probably be able to squeeze it out between Mezh and Elektrogorsk. Make a note to queue a monastery and temple in Elektrogorsk if he takes the town.

Turn 226, 790 AD

Yeah, those horses are heading east, so probably to the Barb town. I give Capac a call to see what's up. His hands are free, so good news.

Turn 227, 805 AD

Incans have developed a new herbal remedy . . . .

Stalingrad: Swordsman < Catapult

Karachev: Work boat < Galley

I will send the work boat to Mezh, not to the clams. I don't want to commit to the new fishing boats until our galley is out to protect them.

A forest is chopped in Mezh. I move the bare grassland citizen to a plains. GL in 16. I'll chop one more. It's not like we won't want farms later, anyway. I think I'll use these workers to built the Stalingrad-Svetlograd overpass next . . . .

Turn 228, 820 AD

Great Prophet born in a faraway land.

Newest cottage done near Moscow. I move workers to start a mine on the remaining hill since we will be doing a wonder here soon.

In other news, our religious bonus with Capac has moved up to +2, so he's pleased now.

I suddenly remember that we can trade with our neighbors! D'oh! We have so much health, it's safe to trade away our deer and crab. We can get silks (from Nappy) and sugar (from Capac) in exchange. Two happy for two health seems good! I don't know if it'll give us the trade bonuses or not, though. The alternative is getting 4 gold from each, but I don't think it's as good a deal.

Higher happy caps all around!

Turn 229, 835 AD

Growth in Magnitogorsk and Stalingrad. Stagnate Magni on the hill.

Magnigorsk: Monastery < Temple

French lost some infrastructure to a thunderstorm. Yay! Chop finished, GL in 8. Move workers to start the long road. Barbs from Kushans sending out an archer . . . . Send an axe from Karachev north to deal with any intrusions.

Turn 230, 850 AD

Napoleon adopts Hereditary Rule! Hrm. And the Temple of Solomon is built far away.
Well, he'll trade, but we're one turn to Monarchy, anyway. Capac is gonna get awfully friendly with one of us . . . . I'm thinking, then, I'll trade Monarchy to Capac for HBR if he'll take it.

Not sure where Nappy's horses are going, now . . . .

Turn 231, 860 AD

We have Monarchy! I start the revolution. I crown myself Emperor Whosit I. I also slot in Metal Casting for now. Confucianism spreads to one of Capac's border towns.

Capac will only offer gold for Monarchy. I guess he's already researching it? Since beaker-wise, Monarchy is worth much more than HBR. \I'll take the gold, then; only 40, but better than nothing, I suppose. Hmph, no trade bonuses from such a slanted trade. That was probably

Western road done, now what . . . . I decide to chop the forest next to Archangel. No, the forest next to Magnitogorsk. In case of attack, we don't want adjacent forest. I'll make sure this chop goes into the HE to get the wonder bonus from it.

Turn 232, 870 AD

Ok, back in action. Metal Casting in 10! I'll check the cities to make sure they're all doing what they are supposed to be doing in a moment. It looked like Nappy attacked Olmec. Killed an archer, wounded two. Two fresh ones, but I think I'll try to finish it off while I got this chance.

Promoted two Axes to City Raider I (on top of everything else) and knocked off two archers. I'll finish it next turn since it doesn't look like Nappy has enough troops left to take it himself.

I flag the workboat waiting up north. A barb archer ventured out of Kushans. Axeman I brought up has 99% odds. I take it.

Perfect.

More cottage for Karachev. Etc.

Turn 233, 880 AD

Capac wants us to give him Aesthetics for HBR and pocket change. Uh, no.

Stalingrad: Catapult < Confucian Monastery (4 turns). For hammers and science boost.

Send the catapult to our western front.

It seems Nappy killed another of the barbarian Archers for us. Olmec will burn.

We get 87 gold for our trouble and two workers. Yay! The barbs built a cottage on St. Peter's Grave! Hmm, pillage! 7 gold from pillaging the Village, still a hamlet and cottage and road to kill. Settler will finish next turn, so hopefully we'll make it to the city site on time.

Turn 234, 890 AD

Moscow: Settler < Hagia (switch builds in Novosibirsk first back to Chichen Itza so we get more gold when it goes). Currently in 19 turns, but that'll change soon.

Settler starts a 6 turn march to St. Pete.

22 Gold from hamlet. 10 gold from cottage. Nuthin' from the road.

Hmm, the two captured workers. Svetlograd can use more infrastructure, but I'm gonna have them road west. The two groups of two workers should finish the roads quickly and then we can move units east and west easily. On second thought, I only use one to start the road from this end, and the other to build a farm.

Turn 235, 900 AD

Karachev: Galley < Parthenon (22 turns).

Moscow: Celebrates our greatness.

Grassland mine finishes for Moscow, so switch from a cottage to the mine, cutting 3 turns off the build time. I decide to chop the nearby forest.

Trade advisor says that Capac has Metal Casting. Boo. He won't trade. If we get it before Nappy, I guess we might get HBR?

Turn 236, 910 AD

Magnitogorsk: Temple < Heroic Epic (5 turns with a chop coming). 3 Turns after chop. Yay.

Turn 237, 920 AD

Stalingrad: Monastery < Spearman (3 turns)

Send the worker from troop-town to chop the, I mean, mine a hill for Karachev.

Forest cleared for Svetlograd, Courthouse finishes next turn. Will do a barracks.

Oy, I messed up my own road plan! I moved the worker north of the horses. I start the road anyway, 'cuz correcting the path will waste a turn.

Turn 238, 930 AD

The Great Library has been completed in Mezh! Starts its lighthouse. I hire a couple of regulare scientists, too. Galley is just about in place, so I send out the workboat.

Oof, and Svetlograd lost its norther tiles to Capac's town?! No religion out here, so I just slot in a barracks to take the overflow.


Turn 239, 940 AD

Magnitogorsk: Heroic Epic < Swordsman (2 turns).

Poison gas fills a mine near Stalingrad. Pay to keep it from being destroyed. An Incan border city got hit by a hurricane. Whoo.

Could rush the courthouse in Elektrogorsk, but it's a 3-pop whip right now. Will wait. Could rush the lighthouse in Mezh, but, uh, no. It's our GP farm. It's growing well, anyway.

Shuffle workers around.

Turn 240, 950 AD

Stalingrad: Spearman < Market (10 turns). We're bleeding gold, so this might help.

Svetlograd: Barracks < Catapult (6 turns). To smack down the inevitable advance.

Dial up our neighbors to see what's up. Ok, the good news: Neither seems to be in "We have enough on our hands" mode. But both are FRIENDLY with the other. They will not attack each other . . . . Capac is +6 to us total, but still only pleased. Things might get dicey.

St. Petersburg is finally founded! Starts a 45 turn granary.

Napoleon has Compass, but won't trade. We're suddenly losing 24 gold per turn for some reason? Oh, right, city maintenance. Dern it, Peter.

Magnitogorsk has a wonderful 40 hammers to any military unit. It can basically build anything in 2 turns.

I change Stalingrad's Market to a 3 turn Missionary for Svetlograd. I meant to do that in the first place. I wanna get that city's culture going with religion and temples and such to try and push back the Inca culture and get our darn sheep back!

Turn 241, 960 AD

Magnitogorsk: Swordsman < Axeman (1 turn. Squee!)

Oh, the elections come up. Erk. Well, I'll go ahead and vote for Napoleon and hope we get the "voting" diplomatic bonus. Hopefully we won't need to be Pope in the near future. We get a +2 dip bonus. Old animosity has faded. We're +9 with France, but still only pleased.

+7 with Inca and pleased.

Chop finishes for Moscow. I send the workers to start a cottage on the riverside plains since all the grasslands are done. 7 turns for the Hagia Sophia. We might make it. Otherwise we get, what, gold for 2x incompletes?

Boo! It looks like Nappy and Capac traded each other Metal Casting for Compass. Grr.

In other news, the Whosit Byway has been completed between our central and eastern provinces. Huzzah! I think we have plenty of workers, and despite my mismanagement of them, all our towns should be in good shape soon.

A mine will be done near Karachev in 3 turns. Make sure that it's working it to speed the Parthenon along.

Svetlograd: Farm and mine stuff. It hasn't reached full hammer capacity yet. It could do 20 easy. May want to chop down the adjacent forest, though, just in case.

I have a worker building a road to connect St. Petersburg. Make sure it works the sheep when borders expand.

I marked the spot for the central blocker. I'd like to see it settled in the next turn set, but it's not the most important thing.

We'll be getting a Great Prophet and a Great Scientist relatively soon. The GS should probably build an academy in Mezh, yes? What with the 4 scientists, it's pushing out just a few more beakers than Stalingrad. It's borders expand next turn. I want to see what happens to the barb town, but I'm gonna stop here what with being at a tech crossroads and all. I think we should do Machinery - Civil Service for Crossbows and Macemen and being able to chain irrigate and thus grow some more of our towns.

Forges are available. Um, Magnitogorks probably doesn't need one.

Oh, I just remembered that Mezh was supposed to do the National Epic. Well next player can handle that, though we might want the lighthouse, too. Might want to check if slipping a forge in would be helpful, but I'm not sure that it's putting out enough hammers for that. If we burn down the barb town, there's another hill we can safely mine.

And does anyone know what numeric bonus we need to get friendly ratings? Nappy might be at the edge, so if we bribe him or something it might help . . . . For Capac, I guess we need to wait for the Religion and Civic bonuses to increase.

A lot of our garrison ended up getting moved east, but that's OK, because we can build a ton more out west. Let's make sure to get some catapults so we can smack their stacks around.

And a bunch of pictures of the Russian Empire. Poorly taken.

Spoiler :

 

[Glare Seethe]

Looking very good, I think. We reach Friendly at +10 so Napoleon is almost there. Just have to wait for him to ask a favor or let the years of trade bonus kick in. Or vote for him again. Hopefully he won't attack before that happens. Looks like the majority of his stack is mounted so we should build 3-4 more spears in Magnitogorsk, and then some catapults.

I'm unsure about tech. We are close to being able to see Huayna's research, though. How about setting the slider down to 0% until that happens (we could even bump up espionage 10-20%) and make a decision based on that? Similarly, once we know what he's teching we can divert EP to Napoleon and wait until we know what he's teching. Then make an informed decision.

Definitely either Civil Service, Machinery or Paper, I think. Feudalism for longbows is tempting but we don't really expect to be warring any time soon, so we can pass on that. On the other hand it leads to Guilds and grocers, which we'd want in Moscow. But the AI prioritizes Feudalism and I'd guess one of our neighbors is teching it at the moment. We could probably trade for it (albeit at a hefty price since the AI rates it highly, but if we bulb Divine Right soon that should not be a problem).

I think we should save any Great Scientists for bulbing Education/Philosophy. We won't be able to bulb Liberalism itself unless we refrain from getting Machinery, though. This is the point where we have to start discussing the bigger picture - i.e., we have to think about what we want to take with Lib and our tech decisions from now on should reflect that and lead us towards that goal.

Personally I think the bigger picture involves massive stacks of Cossacks running around French and Inca territories, so for me it'd be ideal to take Rifling or Military Tradition from Liberalism. Our slider is still pretty low but Great Scientists can bulb a good deal of that line (Philo > Edu > Lib > Printing Press) so that shouldn't concern us too much as long as we make smart tech choices that allow us to trade for whatever techs we are missing. At the same time we don't want to trade too much because Cossacks vs. Longbows is more fun than Cossacks vs. Rifles.

Of course there is always the popular Lib > Nat > Taj option, and we have marble so building the Taj is not an option, it's seriously an obligation. Then using the golden age to power tech through Rifling.

If we do want to use Cossacks we'd have to start preparing for them now, though, which means building stables in Magnitogorsk, Svetlograd and Stalingrad. Every time I've done a cavalry war I started building horse archers long before I was even close to cavalry. However, the upgrade from HA > Cav is really expensive (~250g, I think), so I've come to think it's inefficient. So perhaps beeling Military Tradition so we can build cuirassers ASAP would be wiser - the Cui > Cav upgrade is much cheaper I think. Anyone know exactly how much the upgrades cost, by the way?

Anyway... short term I say we drop the slider and rack up enough EP to see Nappy and Huayna's research, then go with whatever they're not teching. Otherwise... keep doing what we're doing, it's going well. Settle the next batch of cities if we can afford it, too. We should send the chariot in St. Petersburg down to scout out some of those ocean tiles around the tundra, if there's fish hiding there somewhere it'd change any settling plans for that area. But priority cities are the blocker and the two production cities (Green and White D).

Prophet will bulb DR, Stalingrad will build the Spiral Minaret... hmm, what else. Do we want Versailles? I don't know if we have a very good location for it; maybe Svetlograd can build it if it doesn't have to build more units (i.e. if Huayna's at Friendly), it'll definitely help with the culture battle.

We are low on commerce but once we take those floodplains out of Nappy's hands and the grasslands out of Huayna's hands we can cottage everything up, run Emancipation and seriously run away with the game.

 

[Whosit]

Hmmm, much to think about.

First, this is a bit of a tangent but I've been meaning to bring it up for awhile. The first three religions were founded elsewhere. We won't know 'till we get there, but if we're lucky, the other continent(s) will have been a hotbed of inter-religious wars.

I would be very hesitant to drop research entirely, especially since we'll see at least Capac's research in a couple turns regardless. Perhaps I'm simply orthodox when it comes to research, but I wouldn't bring it to a halt without some very good reasoning.

As far as research itself goes, I'm trying to give that some thought. There are definitely some wonders we want to pick up (we can probably even grab the few remaining stone-based wonders if we really want them) but I don't think we should assume that peace will hold. I'd like to get machinery and engineering so that we can build pikemen instead of spearmen. Music, however, is also on our to-buy list since it's a prerequisite for military tradition anyway.

The Sistine Chapel would be nice, but perhaps not necessary (I'd really like it if we can afford to, though). We probably won't gain much from the boost to specialists, but the cultural boost to Confucian buildings would really help our border wars. If we get there first, and I think we certainly can, I can think of a use for that Great Artist. Personally, I'd settle him in Svetlograd to ensure we have no more trouble with lost tiles there.

We can probably get Nationalism with Liberalism anyway, since it's on the way to Military Tradition. But I'd like the medieval combat techs, too. If we can build a decent army even before Cossacks, we could get medieval all over Napoleon and eliminate or weaken one of our rivals. Sure, Capac won't be happy about that, but his days are surely numbered, anyway.

I'm thinking: Music < Machinery < Civil Service < Engineering < something.
Don't ask me about bulbs because I can't plan for that. I'd like CS sooner rather than later for the whole "chain irrigation" thing, but we'll get it when we get it and put our workers on it.

As for Versailles, yeah, I don't see a great place for it, but Svetlograd is as good as any and at least that way the AI doesn't get it. Well, sure, maybe we'd take it from their cold, dead hands at some point, but . . . . At the very least, it can't hurt to build it. And we will always have the Forbidden Palace as a backup option.

Anyway, I'm probably not going to stick to my guns regarding tech path because, honestly, I tend to just tech whatever without putting a ton of thought into it. Probably don't need to get Feudalism ourselves, as Glare mentioned. We will want to trade for HBR at some point, but I don't see any good trades available at the moment. We can get their two techs and Nappy's 240 gold if we trade away our techs this turn, but I'm not convinced that it's worth giving up both Code of Laws and Aesthetics. The gold would fund further deficit research, but . . . .

Other random note: If we end up founding the next two religions, let's send the missionaries to Mezh, and let's build a Christian missionary in Stalingrad to send there, too. Since that'll be a science city, all those monastery bonuses can add up.

If we can get the next several combat techs (Engineering for pikes/trebs, Machinery for crossbows, and Civil Service for macemen) before the others get some or all of them, even assuming they have Feudalism, we can probably crank out a large enough army (what with Magnitogorsk) to do some damage. With CS, we can probably find ways to squeeze even more hammers out of Magni, and it should be able to put out advanced units in 2-3 turns. Anyway, I'm gonna play with some pictures and post them.

Spoiler :

So, not saying this is the best plan, but I felt like it and I like drawing arrows. My little plan calls for 2 stacks and 1 strike force. Since Nappy's main source of iron is on the coast, we'd prep a galley or two with some good defensive units (maybe a pikeman and crossbowman) drop them on the hill and pillage the iron, leave 'em there as long as we can. The crossbows can get guerrilla, right?

We'd want a settler ready, but the first stack would go towards Bactrian, camp in the woods, and burn it down (settling our own town quickly after that). This would have to be our largest stack since most of Nappy's forward garrison seems to be here. If we declare, though we can get onto his hill on the first turn and see if we can camp there. We'll have the hill defense plus rivers on all sides to aid us. Nappy built walls, so we'll want plenty of trebs.

Up north, we'll first have wanted to build roads along the invasion route, but if we're quick we can probably take Chartrei quickly. If a counter attack comes, we hold, otherwise, we could move onto Lyons or try a pincer attack at Rheims (in a world where we can afford a HUGE stack, both).

Not terribly worried about Grenoble. We can probably contain it and capture it later. If this all went successfully, then hopefully the rest of the operation will be a mop-up, unless Napoleon has a bunch of productive towns we can't see. Paris and Orleans being the most dangerous that I can see. Even if he has towns north, as he surely must, we can easily contain them by holding Orleans and finish him off at our leisure.

Yes, this is purely fancy and banks on us having a bit of a tech lead insofar as military tech is concerned. But as soon as we get machinery, we can prep by building a bunch of crossbowmen, phasing out older units, and aggressively producing trebs and pikemen until we get macemen, etc. I wonder how far up the tech tree we can get before the AI match us. Even spears and catapults might do the job, though I'd like to at least have HBR before an attack. A few flanking II horse archers will help us deal with enemy catapults in the field.

Now, if anyone likes the spirit of this plan, lemme know.

 

[radiofreestl]

Well, I'm not saying whosit's plan can't work, and if the team is up for it then I'll go for it, but I don't think that's the best use of what we have. We're not exactly swimming in commerce, we couldn't possibly fight a two-front war anytime soon, and despite having done the monolithic-AP religion strategy our two neighbors like each other better than they do us. This game is just begging for us to win HC over to our side with the Reli+HR bonuses, bulb on the Lib path, wait for our moment, and then murder everybody with Cossacks. Nap might declare on us before our time, yes, but then he gets the diplo hit, and we get to hold him off until Cossacks march down the streets of Paris. And then we turn on our buddy HC, own our continent, and cruise to victory.

 

[Glare Seethe]

A medieval war with Nappy would be a slog and slow us down a lot, and Nappy's got at least 10 cities... it would take several turns to march to each one, then a few more turns to bombard defences, then a few turns to heal, etc. Cossacks look so appealing here to me because both Nappy and Huayna's empires are relatively large - the faster movement and no bombardment will really come in handy. We just have to make sure we get there with a big enough tech lead. Worst case scenario we take Nappy down with cossacks and Huayna with infantry / cannons or something.

Going for Music is an interesting idea, we could use the GA, whether to settle (in Svetlograd for culture or in Moscow for gold) or for a golden age. It's also a good trade tech. And if we go for Music we don't have to wait to see what the others are teching since neither one can research it at the moment.

The idea behind dropping the slider is to not invest any beakers in techs which we'll end up trading for anyway... because we'll accumulate some gold while the slider's at 0% we'll be able to run it even higher than 50% at deficit once we do decide what to tech, so there's no need to worry about losing valuable research turns.

My guess is they are going for Feudalism and Machinery, in any case.

 

[Whosit]

Yeah, I wasn't being totally serious about a medieval war, and in most likelihood, Napoleon would call in the Inca to smack our behind while we fight. I suppose as long as we have enough troops to hold off a surprise attack, we'll do fine.

As fer commerce, yeah, we're not so hot. The remaining northern White Dot and Central Dot can both run some cottages which would hopefully offset their maintenance costs and bring in some profit. Courthouse will of course help. Once Civil Service is in, even St. Petersburg could bring in some cash by working all the furs (with camps). We seem to have a pretty decent shot at the Hagia, even after putting it off, so if we do score it in the next 7 turns, our workforce should be able to take care of us for awhile.

Let's make sure we get HBR, at the very least to get stables built now. Trading with these bozos is gonna be fun, since they're clearly trading with each other, and we currently have no single tech with which to scoop everything up. Even to trade Music (which I would like to snag), we'd either have to trade away Aesthetics or wait for them to tech it. I'll let a wiser player choose how to deal with that.

Oh, right. Should we bother going for the Statue of Zeus? Even without ivory, a hammer-heavy city like Stalingrad (or even Magnitogorsk, though it'd require us to stop building units) could build it fairly quickly and, as far as we know, we're the only ones who can start it now. I don't consider it a must-need, it's just one of those wonders that's more convenient to own than to face. I don't think I'd choose to build it in this game unless we can slot it in somewhere as kind of an afterthought.

 

[Dave Hartwick]

Got it, can play in about 12 hours.

 

[Norvin_Green]

Glare and radio are right in that we should aim for a cossack invasion to cap Nappy first and then HC. I think we should boost our ep's by building more CH's before lowering the science slider. HC has the best land and will tech well so why not steal from him.
For techs, I'd still like to see us snag paper next while we trade/steal for feudalism/machinery etc. Bulb DR with an upcoming GP in Stalingrad and then figure out what we wan tto aim for when gunning for Liberalism.

 

[Dave Hartwick]

I was thinking music, mostly for the golden age, and then toward education as a tech path.

 

[Glare Seethe]

I think Music is a good choice, although I'm unsure what to do with GA. Settling in Svetlograd would be good but ultimately might be a bit of a waste if we'll be liberating those tiles from Huayna by force later on. If we want to use him for a golden age, though, I'd keep him around until right before we start a war. I think we'll be upgrading units to Cossacks most likely, so 10 turns at 100% gold with a golden age can finance that pretty easily. And our cities need to do some growing still, so a GA at this stage is not optimal (we're not working enough commerce/hammers tiles to make it worthwhile).

The only other techs that I think we really want at the moment are Civil Service for Bureaucracy and Paper to start on the UoS, and they both lead us towards Edu/Lib. So Music > Paper > CS, maybe?

Also I would change builds in Mezh to the National Epic, we need to start producing scientists. We need at least two (one for Philo and at least one for Education).

 

[Dave Hartwick]

Preturn: Switch to music. Whip Mezh, Elek, Arch. Trade furs to Incas for 5/turn. Trade Aesthetics to French for HBR + 50. Switch Mag to stables.

970. Arch court > spy. Mezh LH > Nat'l Epic. Elek court > settler. Svet cat > library (cultural border battle). Nappy wins AP. Raise science rate to 70%.

980 Stalingrad missionary > settler. Missionary earmarked for the culture wars in Svet.

990 Mag stable > HA. Kushan flips and gets razed. Annoying because we don't get any cash that way.

1010 Mag HA > HA. Confucianism spreads to Svet as the missionary arrives.

1020 Moscow HagSof > forge. Mission to St Petersburg.

1030 Mag HA > forge.

1050 Music's in, but where's the artist? I checked the events log but didn't find an artist message since Michaelanglo in 160 AD. Research set to Civil Service.

1060 Stalingrad settler > forge.

1070 Moscow forge > stable. Karachev Parthenon > forge. Mag forge > cat. Elek settler > LH. Werzdaartist founded at White D, set for granary.

1080 Stalingrad forge > stable. Kursk founded at Central blocker, set for granary.

1090 Mag cat > cat.

1100 Moscow forge > wealth. One of the serfs must've disordered my papers, as it says here that we traded the French Aethetics and Code of Laws for Compass and 170 gold. Also traded the Incas the same things + 230 gold for Machinery.

1110 Stalin stable > xbow. Mag cat > xbow. Svet forge > monastery. Flog serfs, get distracted and screw up the furs for gold trade to the Incas. Nappy takes the spare furs for 8/turn.

1120 Arch spy > spy. Knout the serfs of Elek.

1130 Kara forge > walls. Mag xbow > xbow. Elek lighthouse > library (we'll need specialists there in a couple centuries, perhaps I was premature.) Svet monastery > temple.

1140 Orthodox prophet born, but the only name I can think to give him is Rasputin, so I put him to sleep in Stalingrad and put up a religious icon. A big red one.

1170 Civil service in and the Czar can finally have some proper bureaucrats. Some foreigners finally stop being lazy so Novobirsk can build something other than Chichen Itza. Orders are issued to build a trireme as a barbarian fleet was sited near the fishing grounds off Werzdaartist. Kara walls > maces. Mag xbow > maces.

I DID NOT REVOLT TO BUREAUCRACY. I forget what I set research to, I think Paper. Divine Right was something like 21 turns away, but with the prophet maybe take 8 or so. Just make sure the new cities have Confucianism by then, I suppose. Also, we could use more workers to put up the irrigation chains and chop. Heaps of forests.

Screenie time!

Keeping up with the Joneses.

Spoiler :

Lots of land, but not that great of land.

Spoiler :

Siberia.

Spoiler :

The middle bit. Note the intruder.

Spoiler :

The other bit.

Spoiler :

 

[Glare Seethe]

Looks really good, Dave. Very strange about Music, only an Artist can bulb it and Michaelangelo was the only GA born in the game so it must have been from Music... but 160AD seems very early for it, especially since no one was building any of Aesthetics wonders at all until recently. Oh well.

Bulbing DR brings it down to 7 turns, so I'm thinking DR > Paper > Philo (bulb, even though the religion's gone. We can't trade for it and researching it is kind of a waste) > Edu (part-bulb).

My main question is if we should switch to Caste / Bureau. I'm thinking yes. We could run more scientists in Mezh to speed up the second GS to partly bulb Edu and our core cities have all grown enough that whipping them down doesn't make sense. On the other hand we have a few new cities (and will settle some more soon) that need some infrastructure, and Slavery will help with that, so I'm not sure.

Svetlograd expands its borders in a few turns so the sheep will be ours again, and Juli will possibly auto-raze or at least revolt since Huayna doesn't have any culture there yet.

I can play either tonight (in a few hours) or on Wednesday... unfortunately I don't have time on Tuesdays. I think the plan is pretty straightforward, though, so unless you guys have any unique suggestions or comments I can probably do my set tonight rather than delay everyone by two days... or otherwise I can swap with radio or someone else who can play tomorrow.

edit: I'm thinking Sistine Chapel in Svetlograd; any objections? If someone really got Music at 160AD I have a hard time seeing us completing it, but at least we get some gold. I am going to sell Music to both Nappy and Huayna since it's basically a deadend tech and both have a lot of gold, but if we lose Sistine it won't be to one of them.

edit2: Also thinking it's time to cottage up Stalingrad some more, there are two forested grasslands that could be cottaged. I can put the chops into a market. I don't remember if we had any plans to specialize Stalingrad in another way but with Bureaucracy coming up it makes sense to lay down some more cottages, and it really needs to grow some more.

 

[Whosit]

Very good set, Dave. We got the wonders we were gunning for, got some more of our planned cities settled, improvements, etc. I, too, am puzzled by the apparent early acquisition of Music by a foreign power. Though that means they had access to aesthetics for awhile and didn't get those wonders, so we might have a shot at the Sistine Chapel. I think that it's worth giving it a shot. Maybe Svetlograd as Glare suggested, maybe wherever it can be done fastest. I'll leave it up to his judgment.

Speaking of, I have no problems with you taking your set today. I'll leave issues of bulbing to you, as well. As far as revolting to new civics, well, I can't take a look at the save for awhile . . . as usual, so I'm not sure how much Bureaucracy will impact us. Probably can't hurt. More cottages would probably be good in that case, I suppose. I guess chop down riverside forests? I know that replaceable parts are a ways off, but will we want to make use of lumber mills anywhere?

Caste system . . . . Honestly, we may be able to make greater use of slavery on a wider scale for a bit, though as you mentioned Caste System would give us more scientists and poses no risk of slave revolts (we've gotten off fairly light, so far). Dunno. I'll leave it up to you.

I'll agree on principle with Dave that we need more workers. Though the Hagia will surely help. Looking at those screen shots, I'm confused because I thought I moved some of those irrigation signs around . . . . Basically, to irrigate Karachev's rice, irrigate north from Moscow's farm. To get to Mezh, it's probably fastest to irrigate from Elektrogorsk's lake, though we'll have to chop through some forests to do so. Nice to see that the national epic is almost done. Once we get that placed farmed, maybe add some extra garrison just for happy bonus, should be fun times.

At least we're still first in score, though our power may not be as high as would be preferable . . . . If you get the chance, Glare, I suppose you can go ahead and settle the remaining White Dot and our Horse production town north of Stalingrad. That should take care of all remaining and available marks, right?

Well, that's about all for now. Since I can't check I don't know, but hopefully one of our neighbors will be friendly soon.

 

[Glare Seethe]

If you get the chance, Glare, I suppose you can go ahead and settle the remaining White Dot and our Horse production town north of Stalingrad. That should take care of all remaining and available marks, right?

Yeah those two are the major ones left, and then there's a filler spot between Stalingrad and Novosibirsk that I'd like to settle to grab the sheep and work a few grasslands too, but that can wait a few more sets.

Huayna's already Friendly, by the way, so we're safe on the east.

Maybe it's best if I wait until Wednesday to play after all, just to give people more time to look at the save. That's at least still within the 48 hours.

edit: Okay, looked at the save again, Caste System is probably not worth it at the moment. With the NE/GL combo in Mezh we'll be able to pop enough scientists, I think. But Bureaucracy is worth it, so I'll just do that probably. I'll set Moscow to produce workers once it grows and can work all of its cottages. Stalingrad will go missionary > missionary > Spiral Minaret, I think.

edit2: Here's my proposed tech path for the next few turnsets: DR (part bulb, then finish) > Paper > Philo (bulb) > Edu (part bulb, then finish) > Lib until 1 turn > Nat > Lib > Military Tradition.

While we're teching these stables go up in our production cities (namely Magni, Svetlograd, Stalingrad). Taj goes in Stalingrad. Once MT is in we start mass producing cuirassers and tech towards Rifling while enjoying the free golden age from the Taj.

The other continent has Philosophy already so there is a danger in losing the Taj... except wonders have been slow this game and we're Industrious with marble, so I think - I hope - we'll be all right. Spiral Minaret and UoS will also be built during this time, they won't cause us too much slowdown even without stone.

I hope I'm not forgetting any techs, though. We don't need Guilds or anything, do we? I think we can skip knights and head straight to cuirassers but I'm not 100% sure. From this point on we should try to avoid trading with Nappy or Huayna as much as possible, although I guess giving them Liberalism for Guilds/Eng or something, if we need it, is not so bad.

 

[Dave Hartwick]

I don't see any point in building the Sistine Chapel, as all it provides is culture. Svet could build culture straight up to assist with the border struggle and get better, or at least faster, results. Also, we'll want strong production cities free to build the Minaret and the U of S, both coming up soon and both desirable. Not to mention maces. And religious buildings. And workers.

Probably best to start deleting swords as they are replaced by maces.

I'd stick with slavery as we don't have tons of food. Of course, the whip is only good if you use it. I turned over the save with some cities unwhipped, so you've got serfs in need of flogging. Bureaucracy should happen right away, IMO. Stalingrad's a pretty good city.

Mezh can build a market and a forge to increase GP development, and we'll still have a majority chance of getting a scientist. If philo is quick to tech, you could use the upcoming scientist for an academy in the capital. Bureaucracy works well with academies and it's better to get one sooner than later, plus there's Oxford, if we get around to it. It's not unusual to get 20+ beakers a turn out an academy at this stage of the game. It adds up and I don't think we're in any way pressured in the Lib race.

I think we can stop handling Nappy with the kid gloves, ie, stop voting for him in the AP. I'm actually tempted to say go for knights and attack him or at least start provoking him by closing borders and making demands, but maybe if we wait for Cossacks I'll get to play a war set against the French.

 

[Glare Seethe]

You are right about Sistine, I'll leave it alone then. It's so easy to be tempted by wonders, though. I'd still like to get Nappy to Friendly to completely eliminate any risks before we are ready. I don't think he'll attack soon and even if he does our maces and crossbows will take care of anything he can throw at us, but just so we don't suffer any unnecessary delays it'd be nice to keep the peace. All it takes is one more vote.

 

[Whosit]

I'm totally sure about votes and such, but I was under the impression that the "you voted for us bonus" was not cumulative. I'm guessing Capac will still vote for Napoleon just 'cuz the AI tends to stick together.

Good point about Sistine. It'd be nice to have in a "perfect" world, but it really doesn't add to our overall strategy and only feeds the wonder whore in us all.

I wouldn't mind an early DOW, personally. We'd shred his initial thrust and it'd give us an excuse to capture a few of his cities. Oh, after the other dots are settled, we should keep a settler on standby in the west so we can settle our flood plains city after we raze the ugly town Napoleon took from the barbarians.

Again, I don't think there's any critical debate going on at the moment that would stop you from playing your set. Of course, I say that in part just 'cuz I feel like we're on a roll.

 

[Norvin_Green]

It does look like we are on a roll. Nice job and report Dave. The one thing that I did notice besides that we have the most land is that we are also numero uno in production and second in GNP. I think we need to keep this in mind and take advantage of this.
If Nappy gets to friendly, according to the reference charts, he won't declare (provided he didn't go WHEOORN prior). IF (note the caps) thats the case do we really need to build maces and such when we are planning to swamp them with cossacks? Would it make more sense to save the cash by building less troops? I'm not saying this is the right play I'm asking to stir up ideas.
The other thing is do we really want to raze the poorly placed city of Nappy's to move it one tile? Sometimes its better to just keep the city as is.
Please realize I'm saying this without looking at the save. I actually have to WORK today. Can you believe it?