Rita Poon
You've just been Reinerd!
Justin-fill in Africa/South America with barbs & allow them to create infantry.
SCENARIO: "The Cold War - 1961 AD" for C3C
- Thread starter SimPathy
- Start date
SimPathy
Chieftain
Great idea!
I'll try that in the next version of the scenario.
SimPathy
Chieftain
Yes, and I'll definately include some new civs in South America and Africa.
People in this forum have mentioned a lot of good ideas, and I'll try to include them.
SimPathy
Chieftain
You are right, I've just placed the wonders about where they were/are located in reality.
Because the wonders in Civ are almost all located in NATO countries, that makes an advantage for the NATO in the game.
However, I don't see the advantage is really that big, as some wonders have no effect anymore, or are working for one single city only.
Furthermore, the NATO has the big disadvantage of war weariness, which although it's moderate in the beginning, increases a lot after some turns of war.
And they have the disadvantage of being devided on two seperate continents; even the airports don't make up for that entirely.
But I see it would be much better to give the Warsaw Pact more wonders - I'll do this in the next version.
Thank you very much for your suggestions!
SimPathy
Chieftain
Unfortunately, I don't see how that would be possible to do with the editor.
The editor is really unflexible, it's not even possible to set a diplomatic status besides locked alliances/wars.
SimPathy
Chieftain
Hehe ... sounds like fun you're having!
Have you found NATO is really that much stronger than the Warsaw Pact?
When I tested it, I thought it is acceptably balanced, as the war weariness on the side of the NATO makes up for the number of wonders they have.
But well, it looks like I have to have a closer look on it again. For the next version, I'll have to think of a solution for that ... I'll definately give the USSR more wonders ... maybe reducing the number of NATO airports is a good idea as well.
Do you have further suggestions?
SimPathy
Chieftain
Maybe this will just cause the other civs to conquer these regions too fast ... I'll probably just fill them with real civs in the next version.
Rita Poon
You've just been Reinerd!
SimPathy, sorry about posting ideas before testing them by myself. New to modding. In the future, I'll be more specific w/ suggestions. I enjoy bouncing ideas off an obviously skilled scenario creator. But let me know if what I'm doing is a breach of civfanatics etiquette.
Went back to the drawing board.
As I see it, best way to create neutral civs is to give them a unique form of government. A highly nationalist/highly pacifist government. Something that Ghandi might advocate. Whatever you call it, I give it a HUGE resistance modifier in the editor, especially against Communism & Republics. It should be the preferred government type of neutral civs.
Militarily, these neutral nations are still outclassed by the dominant world powers. They also have high war weariness. So they won't be declaring wars.
But with a high resistance modifier they are not likely to bend over, grab their ankles & prepare to get screwed by the super powers. Occupation is not really an option. Razing the cities is possible. But under the standard rules, razing makes other civs more hostile towards you-just like using nukes.
Finally, to further encourage civs to adopt the neutral government, use flavors. Steer them away from Republic & Communism. Shouldn't be impossible considering Republic & Communism are dead-end technologies.
This scenario has been a lot of fun to play. But your Age of Imperialism scenario is still my favorite. Keep up the good work!
Went back to the drawing board.
As I see it, best way to create neutral civs is to give them a unique form of government. A highly nationalist/highly pacifist government. Something that Ghandi might advocate. Whatever you call it, I give it a HUGE resistance modifier in the editor, especially against Communism & Republics. It should be the preferred government type of neutral civs.
Militarily, these neutral nations are still outclassed by the dominant world powers. They also have high war weariness. So they won't be declaring wars.
But with a high resistance modifier they are not likely to bend over, grab their ankles & prepare to get screwed by the super powers. Occupation is not really an option. Razing the cities is possible. But under the standard rules, razing makes other civs more hostile towards you-just like using nukes.
Finally, to further encourage civs to adopt the neutral government, use flavors. Steer them away from Republic & Communism. Shouldn't be impossible considering Republic & Communism are dead-end technologies.
This scenario has been a lot of fun to play. But your Age of Imperialism scenario is still my favorite. Keep up the good work!
SimPathy
Chieftain
Actually, I'm not an experienced scenario creator. I've made some Civ2 scenarios years ago, but I had not touched the Civ3 editor before C3C came out some weeks ago, and I've not taken the time to study all the threads with information about scenario creating.
I heartly appreciate your suggestions, as they help me to improve the scenarios and increase my knowledge about creating scenarios.
It seems like you've tried several things with the editor which I have not experimented with yet, so please excuse my ignorance.
I'm not familiar with the resistance modifier. I've guessed it is the following: When you edit gov X and set the modifier vs. gov Y on a certain level, it will influence the amount of resistance a civ with gov Y will experience after having conquered a city by a civ with gov X.
Is that true, or is it an even more useful option?
Obviously you have experience with it ... could you please explain?
Sounds like a great idea. How much is the probability of civs declaring wars actually dependant on the amount of war weariness they experience?
Does the AI take that into account, so these civs won't likely be attacked? Do you have experience with that?
Thanks very much.
I'll begin working on a major upgrade of the scenario, and it'll probably be completed within the next two weeks.
I'm experimenting with some modifications of the Imperialism scenario as well, like making it impossible to build cities on desert and tundra, for that the Sahara, north Russia and Canada won't be populated by all the other civs. I don't know yet when that will be ready for download.
ilikeverin
Chieftain
I can't wait for me to download this! Woo! (How's that for a first post!)
You could call the government '3rd World Government', but that's boring.
Have fun!
You could call the government '3rd World Government', but that's boring.
Have fun!
SimPathy
Chieftain
Originally posted by ilikeverin
I can't wait for me to download this! Woo! (How's that for a first post!)
Have fun!
I'm fine with your first posting.
So I need the help of all of you:
Could you please give me information where there were proxy conflicts between the West and the East around 1960?
I'm going to research for myself, but maybe it's faster when you help me.
Rita Poon
You've just been Reinerd!
Experienced or not, you still do good work
You've pretty much just described it. Specifically, the resistance modifier determines the chances that a single citizen will continue resisting any occupation by certain government types.
I think the modifier changes the odds (percentage-wise) that a single citizen will continue resitance. +5=5% chance of continuing resistance. This is in addition to any cultural resistance. Highest it goes is +100.
See here: http://www.civfanatics.com/civ3acad_resistance_revealed.shtml
for more on resistance.
In a normal game, I think the highest modifier I've seen was +5. I changed it to +25 for testing purposes. Caused a lot of resistance, but not many flips. Might want to tone down the cultural modifier for further testing.
Not much, it seems. They still declare war. Just never against major powers. Mostly they skirmish among themselves. Suspect that their lack of real militaries makes them humble towards the NATO & Warsaw.
Sweden/Finland is hilarious! They sign WAY too many mutual protection pacts. They always get dragged into some godforsaken 3rd world hell for a meaningless border dispute. But the battles die down quickly (Probably because of war weariness?) Usually a peace deal is brokered by the time Swedish/Finnish troops have arrived
In a word, no. Only played as NATO so far. Warsaw AI has payed a heavy price for ignoring nationalism. Attempting to occupy has proven to be difficult for AI, but not impossible. I think the Soviets lost a full strength army. Cities aren't very productive, either. But they have attacked non-aligned countries. They paid a heavy price for doing so.
Should add that I exaggerated the negative effect of razing cities.
Mexico had been bullying South America for the entire game. All of SA's leaders were gracious towards me. So I declared war on the pesky Mexicans. Razed all of their cities. Didn't move settlers in. Gave South Americans a chance to expand & eliminated a nuissance. Thought they would appreciate what I had done.
Wrong.
They were all furious with me. They all refused to trade with me. None of them declared war on me. No one put an embargo on me. OK, its not as bad as using a nuke. But it did hurt to lose access to those profitable South American markets. This makes sense.
Still, I wish the penalty for razing cities was more substantial.
Ehhh, I dunno. Scandihoovians
would object to being labeled as 3rd worlders. How about "3rd way" government?hi
in order my question:
it's possible to convert this scenario for ptw?
why nord korea and vietnam aren't warsaw's pact?
i think that south america and africa it's VERY IMPORTANT for resource and i think that is possible first battle field of this scenario
see you
in order my question:
it's possible to convert this scenario for ptw?
why nord korea and vietnam aren't warsaw's pact?
i think that south america and africa it's VERY IMPORTANT for resource and i think that is possible first battle field of this scenario
see you
Rita Poon
You've just been Reinerd!
I'm guessing North Vietnam isn't in Warsaw for the same reason Pakistan isn't in SEATO. Pakistan was in SEATO, but SEATO stood by idly during the the war with India. North Vietnam was close to the USSR, but USSR stood by idly during the war with China.
(BTW, I thought Bangladesh should be part of Pakistan, so I modded)
Why would North Korea be in Warsaw? Weren't they always closer to China? Never even joined Comecon.
votre_chevalier
Chieftain
- Joined
- Mar 13, 2004
- Messages
- 6
votre_chevalier
Chieftain
- Joined
- Mar 13, 2004
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- 6
Sim, for some reason, this map always completely freezes at the beginning of turn 4, right before the cities' "what should we build next" popups start appearing. I've played this map from turn 0 twice, fought massive wars with NATO starting turn 1, and completely overrun France, West Germany, Norway, and the Low Countries, and all of Iran. But at that point, it always freezes. I've even tried loading the turn 1 right before i tell NATO to take its paratroopers out of the Ukraine and they declare war on me and playing from there. But still, it freezes on turn 4. What do i do?
Some tendency in relations can be set in the editor by defining PREFERRED GOVERNMENT and SHUNNED GOVERNMENT.
This would guide, to some extent - think: Mexico, tendency toward Democracy, though it was far from that - the reality was that Soviet takeover would have precipitated all out war.
I think adding to South America and Africa would be a very good addition to the scenario - if I recall correctly, the Soviets were burned rather badly in the Congo.
This would guide, to some extent - think: Mexico, tendency toward Democracy, though it was far from that - the reality was that Soviet takeover would have precipitated all out war.
I think adding to South America and Africa would be a very good addition to the scenario - if I recall correctly, the Soviets were burned rather badly in the Congo.
votre_chevalier
Chieftain
- Joined
- Mar 13, 2004
- Messages
- 6
I've played this map several times from the beginning at Regent as the Warsaw Pact a couple of times, and each time, NATO declares war on the 1st turn. But every time i've completely overrun Western Europe and just started crushing CENTO and Norway, the game freezes. Has anyone else noticed this problem or is it just on my computer?
SimPathy
Chieftain
Votre_chevalier, I'm sorry to hear about that problem. But as you are the only person so far reporting it, I assume it is a problem at your system only. I have also played the scenario for several times on the side of each civ, and I have not experienced it.
And sorry to all others who may be waiting for the major update I've announced; I have had a lot to do and didn't get to it.
But im't working at it, and I'll post it as soon as it is ready.
It will feature f.e.: More Civs (South America and Africa won't be empty), and building settlers will be possible (that allowes nice resettling after nuclear armageddon), and a better balance of NATO and WP - WP is stronger then.
And sorry to all others who may be waiting for the major update I've announced; I have had a lot to do and didn't get to it.
But im't working at it, and I'll post it as soon as it is ready.
It will feature f.e.: More Civs (South America and Africa won't be empty), and building settlers will be possible (that allowes nice resettling after nuclear armageddon
), and a better balance of NATO and WP - WP is stronger then.Akbar
evil fundamentalist
Originally posted by SimPathy
Votre_chevalier, I'm sorry to hear about that problem. But as you are the only person so far reporting it, I assume it is a problem at your system only. I have also played the scenario for several times on the side of each civ, and I have not experienced it.
And sorry to all others who may be waiting for the major update I've announced; I have had a lot to do and didn't get to it.
But im't working at it, and I'll post it as soon as it is ready.
It will feature f.e.: More Civs (South America and Africa won't be empty), and building settlers will be possible (that allowes nice resettling after nuclear armageddon
I am glad to hear that, and I have some further suggestions. Don't give CENTO a locked alliance with NATO. It's totally unrealistic. China is pretty weak millitarily in comparision with Seato. One way to make them stonger would be to give them North Korea and Vietnam as there really is no need for a seperate civ for thos countries. It would also free up more space for civs in South America and Africa. Give the Arab League more cities in Africa (Morocco, Tunisia, Sudan etc.). Also what civs are you planning to put in Africa and South America ?
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