Sci Fi Fans, any missing Affinities?

[mabalogna]

It would be best if any new affinities brought in would reflect the hybrids that would be possible.

A Supremacist-Purity hybrid of augmenting humanity with cybernetics to better humans but stop just short of losing that philosophical idea of what it means to be human.

A Harmony-Supremacist hybrid's idea of the ultimate being, both genetically altered to have the best traits and cybernetic augments to fill in any gaps.

A Puritan-Harmony hybrid which uses the most extreme genetic engineering but stopping just short of losing their humanity

Creating hybrid affinities and bonus' for the player in a future expansion, I believe, would be far more interesting than trying to squeeze in a completely new affinity. Just a thought

 

[c2h5oc2h5]

It seems that hybrids will be possible by just pursuing several paths on the tech tree. Still, there will be dominant one. Some mixed techs and new aesthetics would be great if someone decides to go that path. I doubt we'll see that tough, it just sounds like something needed to be modded in.

 

[kipwheeler]

Folks above in the thread have previously discussed possible fourth affinities (some sort of Psionic/Telepathic affinity, some sort of intelligence-enhancement Affinity). I kind of like the idea of a "Cryptic Masters" Affinity, an affinity so isolationist and secretive that those outside this group cannot even grasp what their ultimate transcendental goal is.

However, their secondary goal is to completely hide themselves from contact with "primitive humanoids" and erase all record of their existence--through genocide of other affinities, if need be. Their technologies would focus on stealth, spying, assassination, evasion, and memory erasure. Once they have successfully done that (their victory-condition), they might have some other goal--but one the game-designers could leave intentionally vague--up to the player's imagination.

 

[GeoModder]

Ah, obscurity.

 

[Krajzen]

'Cryptic Masters' are IMHO too weird and alien it would much more fit alien civilization

 

[MatThePhat]

Oh yeah, I completely forgot about the mentions of a psychic affinity. I guess that would also be pretty interesting. Not exactly hard science, but I'm not going to fault it too much on that. Anyone have any suggestions for what a vc for that affinity might look like?

Folks above in the thread have previously discussed possible fourth affinities (some sort of Psionic/Telepathic affinity, some sort of intelligence-enhancement Affinity). I kind of like the idea of a "Cryptic Masters" Affinity, an affinity so isolationist and secretive that those outside this group cannot even grasp what their ultimate transcendental goal is.

However, their secondary goal is to completely hide themselves from contact with "primitive humanoids" and erase all record of their existence--through genocide of other affinities, if need be. Their technologies would focus on stealth, spying, assassination, evasion, and memory erasure. Once they have successfully done that (their victory-condition), they might have some other goal--but one the game-designers could leave intentionally vague--up to the player's imagination.

Lol, love it. We don't have any ideas for another affinity, so we'll make it so mysterious you won't know the specifics of it. It sounds so ridiculous, so why do i want to play this faction so bad?

--this be comin' from my cell pho' yo, so plz be up an' forgivin' any mizzlesteaks and breaks (galaxy s4)

 

[kipwheeler]

Just to add, part of the inspiration for the "Cryptic Masters" was triggered in my mind by the "Inhibitors" and "Wolves" of Reynolds' Revelation Space stories. In that fiction, the author took on the problem of the Drake Equation (i.e., if there is intelligent life out there, why haven't we found it?) The books propose that the galaxy is regularly scoured of new-kid-on-the-block intelligent species because an ancient, terrible elder race deliberately sends out "inhibitor" drone-ships that track down up-and-coming intelligent races and exterminates competing intelligences wherever it finds them.

Accordingly, the most successful new intelligent species were those that learned to cover up and hide their own existence, to leave no visible trace of their presence. If we had a "Cryptic Masters" affinity, the players in that affinity would slowly learn of the galactic dangers of some similar inhibitor, and their goal over the course of the game would become to hide themselves thoroughly and completely.

We could throw another loop into that idea if their victory condition was (a) to hide themselves completely, and then (b) to misdirect the hostile inhibitors to exterminate the other affinities on the planet, leaving the world all to themselves once the inhibitors finish the genocide and head home.

 

[GeoModder]

We could throw another loop into that idea if their victory condition was (a) to hide themselves completely, and then (b) to misdirect the hostile inhibitors to exterminate the other affinities on the planet, leaving the world all to themselves once the inhibitors finish the genocide and head home.

A bit risky. Those inhibitors might as well wreck the planet in their chase of intelligent beings on said planet.

 

[kipwheeler]

A bit risky. Those inhibitors might as well wreck the planet in their chase of intelligent beings on said planet.

True, but seeking to genetically modify your own species to match an alien environment you've only been on a few generations (Harmonist-style), or attempting to upload your brain into computers (Supremacist-style)? Also a bit risky. To be honest, in terms of gameplay, the goal might not have to be reasonable to us, as long as it would be reasonable to the sort of individuals who would join the affinity.

Perhaps one of their "National wonders" would be "The Hidden Vault"--huge concealed subterranean cities for themselves capable of sustaining them indefinitely, even if the surface of the planet were scorched by the inhibitors.

 

[GeoModder]

I'd wager that any kind of technological presence (huge cities are fairly obvious, even in caverns) would be obliterated right away.

 

[kipwheeler]

I'd wager that any kind of technological presence (huge cities are fairly obvious, even in caverns) would be obliterated right away.

That's why the Cryptic Masters would specialize in cloaking and hiding technologies to conceal themselves. In terms of game-play with the other affinities, they'd be sort of like the cloaked/hidden units of N.O.D. in the Command and Conquer 3 games--only more so in terms of the ability to hide entire cities--or think of the NOX race in Stargate: SG1--just a version of them that's hostile to the other affinities whom they see as too showy and visible (and thus likely to draw the wrath of the inhibitors).

 

[ConstantineV]

I think the fourth affinity which is sorely missing is Liberty. An historical example is when the Pilgrim Fathers left England for religious freedom. This affinity is libertarian in nature and may focus on survival. The other three affinities seem more totalitarian (or at least authoritarian) in nature, due to the nature of the grand social experiments involved. A Purity state would be a military autocracy. A Harmony state would be a green socialist state. A Supremacy state would be 1984 or Borg style totalitarianism. Those in the Liberty affinity could be comprised of escaped dissenters from the other three factions. Where Supremacy or Harmony would build a warp gate to return to Earth, in the case of a Liberty victory, the colonists would fend off an invasion from Earth, like in Sid Meier's Colonization. Perhaps a Liberty affiliated confederacy would attempt to blow up the Supremacy / Purity warp gate. They would be the faction of freedom fighters (like the Maquis in DS9, the Fremen in Dune, the Rebellion in Star Wars, etc.).

 

[c2h5oc2h5]

The other three affinities seem more totalitarian (or at least authoritarian) in nature, due to the nature of the grand social experiments involved.

Well, it may not be the case; I believe it is not what Firaxis intended. As I get it, affinities represent way how humanity has evolved, given alien circumstances and many small choices made through the history. Supremacy can represent people enslaved by some kind of Orwellian total-control tyranny, but it might be result of ultimate freedom as well, where majority of citizens decided to cybernetically enchance their bodies because it become mainstream. It is up to player what kind of Civilization is he building (in Civ5 it would be decided by social policies, I guess BE will use virtues for that).

 

[Ribcage]

Maybe this is more of an expansion idea, but it would be cool to have the affinities split along an individualism-collectivism spectrum.

Idividualist Harmony players could end up aiming for bio engineered super humans and collectivists would aim to create a kind of hive entity.

Similarly Supremacy might go the overlords route, creating cybernetic masters and nerve stapled slaves. At the other end they might aim for some kind of singularity, or simply replace the human slaves with machine ones.

Individualist Purity could aim for complete human self reliance at one end, creating personal replicators such that everyone can live exactly as they see fit. A collectivist Purity could aim for empire perhaps focusing on communications and governance. Ive heard it said that we've made great progress in the sciences but almost none in politics, it would be interesting to see if firaxis could come up with some inventive new types of government

 

[KrikkitTwo]

Maybe this is more of an expansion idea, but it would be cool to have the affinities split along an individualism-collectivism spectrum.

Idividualist Harmony players could end up aiming for bio engineered super humans and collectivists would aim to create a kind of hive entity.

Similarly Supremacy might go the overlords route, creating cybernetic masters and nerve stapled slaves. At the other end they might aim for some kind of singularity, or simply replace the human slaves with machine ones.

Individualist Purity could aim for complete human self reliance at one end, creating personal replicators such that everyone can live exactly as they see fit. A collectivist Purity could aim for empire perhaps focusing on communications and governance. Ive heard it said that we've made great progress in the sciences but almost none in politics, it would be interesting to see if firaxis could come up with some inventive new types of government

That split would be in the virtues

 

[kipwheeler]

it would be interesting to see if firaxis could come up with some inventive new types of government

Cyberocracy would be one possible new type of government.

You could also among the Supremacists have something akin to the Demarchist government in the Revelation Space series (a direct democracy in which all citizens are wired together, and they vote in real-time on every single government decision via cyberlinks, continuously).

Harmony could have pheremonal governments--rule by subspecies with dominance pheremones over the local fauna (and fellow Harmonists).

Purity could have Excalibur style genetic tests--the closer your DNA to an idealized version of the human ideal, the more political authority you have....

There's a lot of possibilities for Affinity Sci-Fi governments if you start thinking about it.

 

[VictoryLass]

Harmony could have pheremonal governments--rule by subspecies with dominance pheremones over the local fauna (and fellow Harmonists).

I think Harmony leaves a lot of room for player interpretation. You can have something like the societies in "Avatar" or Dune, and it can lead something a bit darker. I wonder if a player could create a highly-structured society like in Huxley's Brave New World.

 

[RandyG]

I think each of the affinities that we have so far are compelling because we can see how advances in current technology can be used to lead us down any of the 3 paths. However, that humanity should choose one path and ignore all the others is unlikely. After all, can anyone point to any society throughout history that has truly been organized around a single ethos (this is a rhetorical question, no need to start a debate)? It seems to me that this is why so many are proposing hybrid affinities.

I think instead of several hybrid affinities, just one would work best. Instead of pursuing the tear drop path through the tech web, the hybrid affinity would generalize. Their units would naturally be hybrids of all the units. I think the units should be individually weaker than what you get from other affinities, but stay competitive through synergy benefits, buffs/debuffs, and/or through gaining experience faster. As generalist, they would not be able to get many of the top tier techs, so the bottom and mid-level techs should provide extra bonuses or synergies not available to factions specializing in one of the other three affinities. Their victory condition could be to return to Earth to fix the great mistake that compelled humans to leave.

If a faction in the hybrid affinity reached a high enough level in a single affinity, then they would cease to be hybrid and become the affinity that they are most like. If they did this, the units they had access to and the victory condition they pursue would change accordingly. Likewise, the unique benefits they received from tech would also disappear. There should probably also be some additional cost to changing from/to the hybrid affinity.

I think a hybrid affinity fits well within the scope of the game, does not require major changes to the tech web or other mechanics, and offers a unique and compelling story, victory condition, units, and gameplay.

 

[AriochIV]

Affinity is based primarily on tech choices, and since the tech web is apparently a wheel with three "spokes" each representing one affinity, you can have a sort of "hybrid" by choosing techs in a line between two of the spokes. However, even if you split your points between two affinities, one is going to be slightly higher than the other, and that will be your dominant affinity. And since you've split your points with another affinity, it will be harder to gain levels in your dominant affinity... and it appears that unit upgrades are unlocked by affinity levels. So the system discourages you from choosing techs outside your dominant affinity.

Given how affinity levels appear to work, I don't see how a true "hybrid" affinity could work.

 

[RandyG]

However, even if you split your points between two affinities, one is going to be slightly higher than the other, and that will be your dominant affinity.

When I said dominant affinity, I did not mean whichever is highest. By dominant I mean for example 70/20/10 split, or maybe 60/20/20, but certainly not 40/30/30. In other words, if a faction is hybrid and then specializes significantly in one affinity it would change to that affinity.

and it appears that unit upgrades are unlocked by affinity levels. So the system discourages you from choosing techs outside your dominant affinity.

This is why I suggested that the units for the hybrid affinity be weaker but receive bonuses in other ways. Likewise, for bonuses for faction, city, etc., unlocked through tech or other mechanics.

Given how affinity levels appear to work, I don't see how a true "hybrid" affinity could work.

It may not work. Based on what we know now, I see no reason it should not work and work well.