Science-doubling wonders: stack?

[wh00ps]

Do the science-doubling wonders stack with themselves or lib/univ/labs?

I'm trying to figure out where to build Copernicus', and dunno if I should build it in a city that is lacking in science (only has a library) to bring it up to par, or a city that already produces lots of science (has lib and univ), to make it even better.

And If I then build Newton's in the same city, does it stack with the bonus from Copernicus'?

 

[lbhhh]

The wonders are cumulative, you can get cities producing 500+ beakers per turn.

 

[the mormegil]

Yes, the bonuses get stacked.

Build science bonus wonders in cities with lots of commerce so they get the most benefit. Personally I like to use a 'science city' for all the bonus science wonders. I take a city that has good commerce and good potential for even more in the future then build the Colossus, Newton's and Copernicus' in it so the bonuses are maximised.

 

[Catt]

Neither normal improvements nor wonders "stack" or provide multiples on prior multiples. Everything computes off of base commerce, less corruption, after slider effects.

Example: a city's citizens working tiles produce 25 raw commerce. Of those, 5 are lost to corruption, leaving 20 commerce. With the science slider at 50%, 10 of the 20 available commerce are allocated to science -- this 10 commerce towards science (or 10 beakers, as people commonly say) is the "base science" in the city. Build a library (50% boost) and beaker output goes to 15. Build a university (50% boost) and the base science gets another 50% boost or 5 beakers, bringing the total to 20. Build Copernicus (100% boost), and the base science is improved by 100% or 10 beakers, bringing the total to 30. Add Newtons and another 10 beakers come into play, bringing the total to 40 beakers.

Certain effects also get the benefit of multipliers provided by improvements and wonders. The Colossus adds one commerce to each tile that already produces one -- this bonus commerce enjoys the effects of any improvments or wonders. Similarly, a golden age boosts raw output and the boost gets the benefit of improvments and wonders.

Science wonders are best built in cities that suffer low corruption, and that offer the opportunity to grow a large population on tiles that generate lots of natural commerce. A core coastal city (lots of natural commerce) with the Colossus (another boost to "natural" commerce) is a great place for a science wonder.

 

[slothman]

Since wonders only get values based on base commerce or science if you have 2 cities both producing 100 beakers but one has Copernicus and uni. while the other nothing there's still no difference in which city to build Newton. I think that wonders should stack unlike regular buildings.

 

[mad-bax]

Yes it's true. The science wonders do not stack. This is why it's a misconception that you can have a super science city by building Copernicus and Newtons in the same city. This contributes no more beakers than with the two wonders in different cities with the same base commerce after corruption, exactly as Slothman says.

 

[The_Unforgiven]

Originally posted by slothman
Since wonders only get values based on base commerce or science if you have 2 cities both producing 100 beakers but one has Copernicus and uni. while the other nothing there's still no difference in which city to build Newton. I think that wonders should stack unlike regular buildings.

I agree, that would make you wan't to have ALL the science wonders together. OMG, what a city!!!

 

[SinisterDeath]

Damn, I took the time to put Copernicus and Newton's in the same city almost every game, I thought that they did stack, from what I'd read. Now I know different. Thanks a lot Kat !!!

I love it when people take time to correct misinformation, now I won't have to "worry" about stacking them in the same city anymore.

 

[the mormegil]

Wonder's don't stack? Can someone clarify what is meant by stack. I thought it meant that if you have two +100% science wonders in the same city it would be +200%. Does that not happen?

 

[Gengis Khan]

Yes, it's +200%.

It's not however +400%, which it would be if they "stacked". The bonus commerce isn't effected by the other wonder, just the base.

 

[Capt Buttkick]

Isn't it: x + x * [(100+100) / 100] = 300% of base
as opposed to: x * 2 * 2 = 400% of base?

 

[Grille]

Originally posted by the mormegil
Wonder's don't stack? Can someone clarify what is meant by stack. I thought it meant that if you have two +100% science wonders in the same city it would be +200%. Does that not happen?

Just look at Catt's example.
Every commerce-multiplying improvement or wonder will always use the slider-defined portion of uncorrupted commerce of that certain type (gold or beakers).

20 uncorrupted raw commerce at 50% science rate give 10 beakers. Now every multiplyer will use these 10 beakers as 'base' for multiplication first and then all beakers are added up to the total beaker production of a city.
City with lib, uni, lab (meaning +150% bonus on science-commerce) would produce 25 beakers @ 50% science (this is how civ3 works).

As it is my understanding, stacking (NOT civ3!) would mean that improvements/wonders would use its multiplyers on beaker output that may have already benefited from another improvement, like say:
20 uncor. raw commerce at 50% science, city has lib, uni, lab:
10 beakers plus lib -> 15 beakers
15 beakers (from base prod plus lib) plus uni -> 22.5 beakers
22.5 beakers (from base, lib, uni) plus lab -> 33.75 beakers



So you need not to put Newton's, Copernicus or SETI in the same city. You could sort your cities on F1 by commerce (not [necessarily] beakers!!) and thereby find the best spot for such a wonder. Note: if you have one super-commerce city with low corruption (say city has river, gold, coastal tiles in its radius and possibly Collossus built) you may want to place all science wonders there anyways, because your #2 commerce city just cannot compete with the #1 city.
Under all circumstances, you want to have a fine amount of uncorrupted commerce in the wonder city. The existence of any other imp/wonder does not matter, you won't get a special stacking (or "multiplicative") benefit from having more than one of those imps/wonders in one city (of course, you'd get their natural, "cumulative" benefit, so you'd want a lib etc there as well).