Science Town

Do you build a Science Town

  • yes

    Votes: 38 66.7%
  • no

    Votes: 2 3.5%
  • never heard of one

    Votes: 2 3.5%
  • depends on the situation

    Votes: 15 26.3%

  • Total voters
    57
I've recently started my first game on King level and decided to also try to build my first SSC.
My problem occured when the AI's ended up building all the wonders I needed for it.
As I was little behind the AI's science wise I ended up with no option but to build the wonders left over which didn't really help for a SSC.
How do you get past this problem?:(
 
Well this is how I have build my whole 4 SSC’s on king level so far. AND BOY ARE THEY WORTH IT.
1st Expansion is everything, cities, cities, cities
When I hit my 5th city top two shield builders go into wonder production, Colossus in the planned SSC and Pyramids somewhere else. I am either close to or in monarchy and go 50/50 taxes science. Expansion is still the key, but now caravans to help, Help build wonder + 1 time science bonus to makeup for the 50% science. Obviously printed here millions of times but took me till this weekend to figure it out. Between each science advance you need one to two minimum first time caravan’s to get the beaker bonus. This keeps you in the science race with only 50% science. The 50% tax gets the cash to rush build to beat the AI if they almost complete a wonder first. Also, tech trading "dated" techs with the AI helps move you along as well, another great tip I got from here. The SSC is the main priority for everything, irrigation and mining, buy infrastructure to make the people happy and allow city growth. It all pays off later on. Also as stated very often here, Mikes Chapel, Shakespeare Theater, Adam Smiths all very very good to have in other cities. Personally I have to have LEO’s too, part of my strategy and LOVE the trumpet solo. I always try and have 3-4 cities producing early wonders, sometime wasting shields on already built ones it comes in handy when two or more wonders become available and you get them the following turn.
That’s my plan, thanks to all the great posts I have seen here at CFC! Good Luck
 
The SSC is a must for my style of play; it's effects last over and beyond the obsolescence of the Colussus.
 
Capt Tuttle,

Regarding a previous post, one thought might be that one should not worry about being to far ahead in science. There is an increased cost in beakers (depending upon the gap between you & your key civ, but that is an aspect that I don’t worry about -- I like having a gap where I’m ahead.), but that increase is is a fine tuning type of thing, maybe on the order of 5-10% or so (such as gifting to a key cive might reduce the beakers at that time from 872 required to only 825 needed. A small bit when a delivered caravan yields $400 a pop.)

Regarding overall playing strategy that you asked about, I recommend that once you have most of the basic searching completed, consider switching out of Monarchy into Republic -- even toggling a notch of science down & lux up, overall science should gain by 30%+.

I also tend to stay in Monarchy too long -- often switch to Republic (and stay there too long), and miss out on the more efficient specialized governments, Dem, Commy, Fundy. So with the early to mid game choice I find that with the possibility of building camels for Wonders, I get seduced into building too few cities. Not to mention that by doing all of that ‘peaceful’ stuff, my civ may look fat and tempting…so I too often go to battle late (see notes below) but my growth is not as aggressive as some -- I usually grow contiguously outward with soe sort of defensible borders in mind if there is an ai civ on my rock.


Marlos,

The tech trading I’ve seen is a function of a few things:

1) Ai proximity/contact -- from time to time the ai “hasn’t had contact with…their next door neighbor whom the traded techs 20+ turns ago. If you open a foreign embassy, the country should note the other countries that it has relations with -- early in the game this can be two, one, or…none. No contact, no trade. Thus early in the game, there is probably some tech trading, but then it tapers down as the ai civs discover borders and border wars.

2) Andu Indorin notes that circa RR & Industrialization, the ai’s wake up & smell the coffee. Sooooo maybe the human should make a few plans ahead of that particular time. Many of my games see my gov’t progression as: Despot -- Monarchy -- (Republic) -- Democracy; Then I’ll take a breath of fresh air for 20-30 turns & go Fundy for money, expansion, infrastructure purchases, and foreign acquisition.

Tech wise, I’ll get to Monarchy ASAP, hang there until 8-12 cities & reason for WKTK stuff (say aquaduct, & reason for trade/SSC/Growth) switch to Rep & grow, maybe if I’m too slow (as often happens) switch to Dem & grow. I’ll stay in Dem getting tech as long as practicable, building Wonders, a few (too few) cities, staying peaceful. Once my SSC has achieved a decent size (say 23, using all the irrigated land, but refridge is still a bit off), shift the tech tree towards the military aiming for Tactics. With Tactics, Leo’s, Sun Tsu, (KRC and Shake’s in a port) maybe ironclads -- I go into Fundy mode. My first 6-10 turns might be just building some units, getting more cash, building some infrastructure (but not a lot yet). This period hopefully sees the war -- I should have a tech advantage of at least Cav over Muskets, hopefully better. So I’ll spend turns conquering at this stage until the Cav vs. Muskets fortified on better land (hills, rivers) call for Arty. Maybe I’ll press for a few more cities, but more usually it is time to stop this & shift back into science mode. Fingers crossed, I’ve taken a couple of civs out & have an empire that is greater than the rest of the world combined. (say 50-60 cities on a large map). Near the end of this time frame, most/ all of the cities should have the infrastructure to grow to size 8 comfortably.

Now switch back to Dem -- within a couple of turns, tech should be coming every other turn or so & at this point, I don’t care too much if the ai’s are trading -- the game is in the bag. Techwise, I’ve collected whatever scraps are still around, and my goal is to switch out of war mode before Industrialization +/-. This will depend on who/where the enemy is -- my first choice is usually the closest ai, but better is the closest threat (read high tech challenge) ai. In any case, I don’t want to lose out on Hoover, so I’ll need that tech with the dozen trucks/$$ before an ai gets close. I’m willing to risk Woman’s Suffrage & the UN in the War period, but that is also a case of how far back am I in the picture. (I haven’t tried Commy -- my thought is that the specialization of grow/science (Dem) toggle (via Statue) $$/infragrowth/War (Fundy) gives the human the advantage of the slow reactionary ai.)

Once I discovered the power of trading, the above strategy still works, although I now can practice it easily on a higher game level, and with enough camels and trucks get techs each turn.

2) I think that the ai does “echo” the player, but this has yet to be put to the test -- when I’m in science mode along conventional lines (similar size to ai civs, say 15 cities each, all as republics, little trade, no SSC) I run the risk of being passed by some of the civs in science, even as other civs start nibbling at my borders. In a number of these games, my switching to Fundy, toggling science down to 20%, taxes to 80% seems to have the other civs matching -- war building activity.

---------------
I think that one of the critical questions (for me at least) is the decision about the use of early caravans -- early trade routes add arrows forever, the early bonuses can lead to significant gains regarding advances, and yet the early Wonders are the most competitive to obtain. Or build those caravans at all when there are still settlers and future cities to build. I think that some sort of balance is best -- arrows/wonders from SSC, arrows & gains from Trade, arrows from Rest of Empire.
 
Originally posted by CaptTuttle
The 50% tax gets the cash to rush build to beat the AI if they almost complete a wonder first.

I like to spend the cash on camels and keep them around to rush build a wonder if necessary.

In general, I find it's best to keep only enough cash to buy a few units or (juicy, juicy) a small city as opportunity arises. The rest should be invested into infrastructure ASAP. You know, just like the Republican Party does in the real American civ :lol: (or is it :cry: )
 
If you are not in Dem, keeping more cash around makes bribing your units more difficult. Also, keeping $1000 around late-game guarantees that if someone takes out your capital the palace will be rush-built in another city immediately. Otherwise your empire is split.

Otherwise, I agree about investing in infrastructure or camels...
 
I didn't use to build an SSC. I only realized how importand they are after playing my first OCC. I try to build them every game now.
 
Since trade is the powerful weapon in the game, I now think less in terms of the Super Science City, and more in terms of the World City at the center of a World-Economy (a la Fernand Braudel), with the Colussus and the Hanging Gardens the foundations for world domination. Having the institutions of the SSC (Copernicus and Newton) located in the "Super Trade City" is almost a coincidental bonus -- though, of course, 1500+ beakers per turn research is nothing to scoff at.

When it comes to Trade (and the commensurate bonuses to science), one can basically distinguish two schools of thought: those who favor trading with opposing civs; and those who rely on trade only within one's civilization. When I first started playing Civ2, I belonged to the latter school of thought -- seduced by those hefty one-time trade bonuses; now I rely almost exclusively on trade between cities I control or am in the process of conquering. On the one hand, while trade at a distance with an opposing AI civ can yield a large one-time boost, one is also providing the AI civ with a significant boost to their level of trade and hence rate of scientific research -- especially if the trade route is comes from the Colossus city; I prefer to let the opposing AI civs research without the benefits of my Colossus. On the other hand, while trading among your own cities reduces the value of both the one-time bonus and the trade routes, it requires less time to establish the routes (in terms of actually moving caravans about), and thus, the per turn benefits kick in more quickly. (This can especially useful in managaing unhappiness at the higher difficultly levels.) Furthermore, each new trade route provides that much more money for the incremental rush building of further caravans; I try never to pass up the opportunity to build "quality" caravans. Over the long run, I believe that trade within a civilization ultimately yields more trade (and science) than trading at a distance with an opposing civilization.
 
In SP, of course I build it. But only if I'm gonig for ac. In MP its rather useless. Too susceptible to faults when citiyimprovements are destroyed.
 
It's one city in which you try to produce as much trade -> science beakers as possible..
Meaning you try to locate it among near good resources (wine, spice, gold) or rivers, and build wonders in it which upgrade your trade (colossus) and science (copernicus, newton)..
You get the point..
 
What what in the what What (in other words i don't understand, i do that in my capital anyway)
 
The point of a science town ( usually called SSC for Super Science City) is to get it produce as many beakers (science) as possible.
So the first thing to do is to get it produce as many trade arrows as possible:
- Colossus, adds one arrow to any square in the city allready producing an arrow
- Place it with trade producing specials (rivers and wine, gold, silk, spice...) to increase trade and make sure all the squares that are worked are roaded.
- Send caravans to good cities so that you will have a trade route that generates a lot of trade.
- Use republic/democracy to gain an extra trade arrow from each square allready producing trade, or celebrate in the other govs to get the same effect.
- Keep it happy and use republic/democracy to grow it large (more squares are worked - more trade)
- Build all the science improvements, such as library, university and research lab when they are available.
- Build airport (to increase trade from trade routes) and superhighways to increase trade from roaded squares.
- Build Copernicus Observatory and Newton's College in this city to increase the science production even more.
- Set the science rate high

If you manage to get a city with all these properties (I might have missed something), you will have a very good science city, but even with some of these missing the boost to your research is great and you will benefit from it.:)
 
In diety it is too hard to get one and it's also useless...
War, war and war is the solution!!!
 
Originally posted by masyauefa
In diety it is too hard to get one and it's also useless...
I think it's safe to say that there are quite a few deity players around here who would beg to differ on both of those counts!
 
I cannot win without one, I can only tie on emperor without it - how can I build it before 1000ad, so I have time to conquer everything?
 
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