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Science Victory Guide (Any Difficulty)

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Strategy & Tips' started by Fish Man, Jul 28, 2014.

  1. Rathelm

    Rathelm Chieftain

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    If you have enough GS (like from playing Babylon or favorable world policies) it's not hard to have all the research completed before you finish the Apollo Program. In which case it is nice to be able to buy all the parts possible.
     
  2. rover6695

    rover6695 Prince

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    I just beat the game with science at Prince, turn 398. This was my first win (only had it for 100 or so hours of total game play). Is this good?

    I think I wasted a lot of money on buying building and maintenance.
    Thought I need a WS/Factory/Recycling Plant in all 5 of my cities.
    What a waste.

    How much total AL does one need for a spaceship overall?
     
  3. rover6695

    rover6695 Prince

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    Also...this guide was GREAT.

    Is there a similar one for:

    -Diplomatic/Cultural/Domination Victory?
    -Playing Tall/Sprawl Wall/Maul?
     
  4. rover6695

    rover6695 Prince

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    1) After you have built the granary and library, what should you build next (Harbor/Lighthouse/Workshop/Market/Barracks)? What is the guide at this stage?
     
  5. Acken

    Acken Deity

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    Whatever fits the situation in that city.
    For a strong expansion you can give a try at a wonder (depending on difficulty).
    If faith isn't great make a shrine + temple
    If there are a lot of good gold sources make a market/mint.
    If you dont have all your routes make a caravan or cargoship.

    etc.
     
  6. unrendered

    unrendered Chieftain

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    A few questions/opinions and observations:

    Do you do 4 city NC? I usually do 3 city NC and plant the 4th city at like t85. Do you think that is too late?

    As for BO I think you could just skip building the first worker and settle earlier if you can manage to steal a worker from other civs and CS.

    Do you use a GE to rush hubble? If so do you faith buy it?

    Any tips on getting Oracle on Deity? The AI finishes it on like t100 and I find it hard to get to renaissance by then to open up rationalism.
     
  7. sun8119

    sun8119 Warlord

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    Depends on AI and your capital (if you build it there). I know Dutch and Morocco love it and sometimes it goes away at T80 or so. I am also not entirely sure if Oracle is worth it since there is so much stuff to build in the first 100turns :) I usually go for it only if I have a great production and "feel" AI won't be building it.
     
  8. Browd

    Browd Dilettante Administrator

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    Oracle is also often built early by the Mayans, who usually beeline Theology to unlock their UA.
     
  9. neilkaz

    neilkaz King

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    "13. Build Oracle, Pisa (choose free great scientist), Porcelain Tower, and Hubble Space Telescope."

    Why not Pisa (choose free great engineer) and use that GE for PT?
     
  10. Acken

    Acken Deity

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    Because that's a bad idea. Rushing PT is not worth losing the GS from Pisa. PT is also often easy to get anyway hard building it.

    3City NC at T75-80 is fine followed by one or two expansions.
    I don't rush hubble, it can be built at the same time as Appollo for freedom and Order. Order needs the GE for the parts too. I guess maybe freedom could use some spare faith to rush it instead of another wonder like SoL but that's not my preference.

    You can get Oracle before T100... Trying to keep Oracle for renaissance is too risky on Deity it will fail most of the time. Babylon has a shot due to faster Renaissance but even for them it's risky.
     
  11. rover6695

    rover6695 Prince

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    I'm at least 50 turns behind, maybe more. Trying to think of why I can't get ST by 170.

    Few things:

    1) Should the cities be on default or food focus?
    -I have a tendancy to put some on production for a project and keep it there because it builds stuff so much quicker, but I think this does hurt my growth hence science.

    2) I am playing on King right now, small continents, 8 civs.
    My neighbors hate me, Indonesia is the next continent and has been at war with me forever.

    My army was 5th and is now 2nd to Indo, is this just normal to hated this much by the AI?
    -I started with 4 cities by t75, about 6-7 tiles apart, which pissed Carthage and Maya off some, but they never DoWed me until Indonesia did the 2nd time.
    My intent was to play peaceful.
     
  12. Acken

    Acken Deity

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    1) Cities should be on production focus (for production trick) and each new citizen born should be manually locked to the best tiles available. While focusing on food you should not neglect good hammer tiles (horses, sheeps, couple of mines etc). If you truly want a good game discipline is required for citizen management, the default focuses make a lot of mistakes. Experience will teach you when to get more hammer heavy on some situations.

    2) It depends if you tend to make stuff that anger the AI. The AI is actually rather friendly on average in BNW.
     
  13. 59saintdane

    59saintdane Warlord

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    For one, Pisa (GE)+rush PT gives you a total of 1 GS but increases the counter twice.
    Pisa (GS) and missing PT gives you 1 GS but only increases counter once. In the first scenario you do get the +50% RA science, whether that's worth increasing GS counter is hard to say. I'd say not, unless you have a lot of RAs that get you 8+ turns of end-game science (increasing GS counter potentially loses out on a natural GS) But:
    Pisa (GS) and hand building PT gives you 2 GS, increasing the counter twice. That's the best scenario. If you don't think you can hand build PT, choosing free GE or free GS are comparable and have their advantages/disadvantages. If you have a shot at it, though, picking GS is definitely better.
     
  14. unrendered

    unrendered Chieftain

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    Well yeah but I feel like if you can time Oracle with entering renaissance the pay off is huge. I don't think there is much use for it otherwise because the build order is pretty crowded as it it in the early game and if you can't access Rationalism with it I think its kind of useless as that policy will most likely be dumped into Patronage or Commerce then.
     
  15. Acken

    Acken Deity

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    Of course it's a huge pay off, everybody with a clue try to achieve it on immortal and below (even on immortal it's quite dicey). The problem is that it's rare to achieve it on Deity, that was my point. Putting this free policy in commerce or patronage is better than nothing at all.
     
  16. unrendered

    unrendered Chieftain

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    1) You should have all tiles locked and put on production focus. I usually prioritize food unless there is a specific reason to do otherwise eg. building a critical wonder or a project (like worlds fair to get 1st for the big culture boost.)

    2) I think pangaea styled maps favor 4 city tradition start because I find there to be more room to expand, unless you spawn on an island alone or with like one neighbor (don't know how likely that is on small continents.)

    Don't forward settle the AI too badly, otherwise they will get really pissed and most likely DoW. That isn't too bad of an issue on lower difficulty levels though, because the AI doesn't have the muscle to build huge armies very early, like on Deity. Also you can try to bribe AIs to DoW each other to keep them busy off of you, if you are having troubles with that.
     
  17. corranhorn01

    corranhorn01 Chieftain

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    So I had a pretty good game last night. As the Inca, got a 4 city NC ~T80 and Edu at T114. My 2nd city had +10 gold Natural Wonder and 4th city had Barrier Reef and 4 fish. All of my cities were going really well growth wise, I was managing to keep on top of happiness, even with -15 from Ideology (I picked Order, if I picked Freedom, I think I would've finished faster) and managed to use diplo to keep Rome off my back. I also had the most culture per game I've ever had (filled out 3 trees, not including Ideology and the 3 extra policies I got).

    However even with being a 'turn ahead' at Education, I was about 15 turns behind with Scientific Theory, getting it about T185ish. I ended up winning on ~T309. I was getting around 1k bpt and bulbed my scientists for about 7.5k each. I took a Prophet off PT because Rameses wasn't getting the memo to stop sending missionaries early on, so I had to convert back, as I needed the happiness from Temples.

    My question. How can I meet the 'deadlines' if I'm up turns at Edu, growing really well, etc but still get so far behind by ST?
     
  18. Bleidraner

    Bleidraner King

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    Difficult to say without seeing what you have done, but science post edu depends on how quickly you had your Unis up (rush buy what you can, this is money better spent than getting early RAs), getting to Secularism asap (the three trees filled you mention worry me, did you have a lot of spare policies between Trad closer and Rat opener? None is great, 1 is OK, more not so much), and ensuring you are working your specialist slots especially the scientists. The rest is about growth, make sure your trade routes are all internal, with 3 going to cap. If you want to be REALLY safe, make sure to settle your cap next to a mountain and build an observatory.
     
  19. Bleidraner

    Bleidraner King

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    Wrote a long post on which city to rush buy Uni, then crashed. Anyway, comes down to do the math. Very often better to rush buy in cap than small city as in cap often bpt is much higher and can work specialist slots immediately, even if in small expo it will take 15 turns to build Uni instead of 5 turns in cap.
     
  20. beetle

    beetle Deity

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    You are doing better than me generally, but GPr off PT is poor play. You needed a GE or GS more. You could have defended your religion better, and failing that, just waited to faith purchase a GPr. How much could faith could that have been at that point in the game.
     

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