Scientific civs?

[dnoisette]

So we've had a couple of first look videos over the last few weeks that gave us insight regarding some civs' specific units/buildings/abilities and what strikes me so far is that we've heard of multiple bonuses to tourism, culture and warfare...but almost nothing that would directly impact science and/or help with a scientific victory.

America's unique "Founding Fathers" or Japan's ability to develop strong, clustered cities might work for a scientific victory, of course. However, I was specifically looking for direct bonuses to science input (kinda like the egyptian's sphinx that boosts culture and faith, IIRC).

Do you think such bonuses will exist in the game?
Which civs do you think are more likely to have uniques tailored for a scientific victory?
Or will there be none at all since I seem to recall that they were making some changes to science and the scientific victory route more specifically?

 

[stealth_nsk]

It looks like there are no civs targeting specific victory types in Civ6. All civs announced so far have bonuses in at least 2 areas and with quite broad use. This fits well with things developers said about them not wanting to force players to specific path from beginning.

 

[darko82]

I do not know why, but Mansa Musa crosses my mind when I hear the phrase "scientific civ". Just saying. I would like him to be back in CIV VI.

But yeah, those bonues will be in the game as ususal.

 

[dnoisette]

It looks like there are no civs targeting specific victory types in Civ6. All civs announced so far have bonuses in at least 2 areas and with quite broad use. This fits well with things developers said about them not wanting to force players to specific path from beginning.

I understand that and I agree that all civs revealed so far have bonuses that can help with more than one victory route. However, none seem to have at least some bonuses going for a scientific victory and I was kinda curious about that.

For example, America's uniques can really help with either culture or domination but I don't think any of the other civs have uniques to help with science.
I wonder why is that and which civs could have uniques to boost science (and something else, obviously).
Actually, I find the pairing of science bonuses and bonuses towards other victory routes is interesting as well.
Which civs would have science boosting uniques? And what would their other bonuses provide in terms of offering alternative victory routes?

 

[stealth_nsk]

I understand that and I agree that all civs revealed so far have bonuses that can help with more than one victory route. However, none seem to have at least some bonuses going for a scientific victory and I was kinda curious about that.

Egypt - bonus for Wonder and District production; China - ability to hasten ancient Wonders production; Japan - district bonuses. All of them could be used for scientific victory. Or nearly any other victory.

This seems to be Civ6 way.

 

[darko82]

Babylon, Korea, some things can repeat from Civ IV and CIV V. If there are cultural bonuses, there will be scientific ones etc.

This time, however, both culture and science can be equally important.

 

[shyPiano]

I do not know why, but Mansa Musa crosses my mind when I hear the phrase "scientific civ". Just saying. I would like him to be back in CIV VI.

But yeah, those bonues will be in the game as ususal.

Mansa Musa - or, rather, Mali - wasn't really known for their technological advances. At least, not that I'm aware of. They - or, at least, Mansa Musa - were known for their extreme wealth. When passing through Egypt, Mansa Musa gave away so much gold that it took a very long time until Gold regained it's value again. It is the only known instance of one man having sufficient wealth to, single-handedly, control the price of gold in the Mediterranean.

The only reason you remind yourself of Mali when thinking of scientific civs is because, in Civ IV, Mansa Musa was Financial, and commerce translated to science.

But maybe I'm wrong and Mali was a nation with marvelous scientific advances! Someone else please chime in?

 

[Krajzen]

I do not know why, but Mansa Musa crosses my mind when I hear the phrase "scientific civ".

Wut
Mansa Musa = money & religion civ

Btw Firaxis already wasted perfect opportunities for fitting science civs - America, England and China. These three were top civs worldwide regarding scientific progress yet they got nothing to science output as far as we know. It's especially a wasted opportunity regarding China which could have some special Eureka mechanics reflecting its IRL tendency to pioneer new technologies (compass, gunpowder, paper, lot of others).

Still, current abilities of those rhree civs are already much better than in civ5 when they had almost exclusively military bonuses I disliked how in c5, out of all possible civs, Babylon, Korea and Maya were leaders of tech progress. I mean, all three were fine regarding science but no extraordinary like Greece, China, India, golden age of islam or Western civs.

I am afraid we will once again end up with random civs having 'historical' science focus. Greece, India, Germany, Arabia and France are the last hope regarding vanilla science civs thst actually were extraordinarily scientific irl.

 

[darko82]

Mansa Musa - or, rather, Mali - wasn't really known for their technological advances. At least, not that I'm aware of. They - or, at least, Mansa Musa - were known for their extreme wealth. When passing through Egypt, Mansa Musa gave away so much gold that it took a very long time until Gold regained it's value again. It is the only known instance of one man having sufficient wealth to, single-handedly, control the price of gold in the Mediterranean.

The only reason you remind yourself of Mali when thinking of scientific civs is because, in Civ IV, Mansa Musa was Financial, and commerce translated to science.

But maybe I'm wrong and Mali was a nation with marvelous scientific advances! Someone else please chime in?

Yes, you are right. That's why I associate him with science, basically based on the game(play) in Civ IV (not real counterpart). He was always ridiculously advanced in the game

Just like Gandhi, BTW. He is not a real counterpart in the Civ games. Firaxis created his own unique personality.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

If there are cultural bonuses, there will be scientific ones etc.

This time, however, both culture and science can be equally important.

This is the best answer, I think. They are trying to mix up civs and their niches this time around. Japan is more defensive and a builder. China is a Wonder builder. America is late-game cultural. Egypt is a river-oriented builder rather than excusively the Wonder civ.

They could have Rome or France or Greece as science civs this time around. Who knows?

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

China do get alot of indirect bonuses that can help science:

More builder charges mean cheaper improvements which mean more resources can be spent on infrastructure.
Great wall help you defend so you have to worrly less about raiders and military which save you resources which can be spent on infrastructure.
Builders can help with wonders mean that you can get a stronger economy which help science.

Rome could have a eurka bonus as their fame mainly come from taking the best from everyone. Greece and France, maybe more culture focused then science focused.

 

[dnoisette]

I disliked how in c5, out of all possible civs, Babylon, Korea and Maya were leaders of tech progress. I mean, all three were fine regarding science but no extraordinary like Greece, China, India, golden age of islam or Western civs.

I am afraid we will once again end up with random civs having 'historical' science focus. Greece, India, Germany, Arabia and France are the last hope regarding vanilla science civs thst actually were extraordinarily scientific irl.

That is something I am concerned about and I hope it doesn't turn out that way again for Civ VI.

 

[Socrates99]

Since the tree is split between science and culture and we've seen culture civs it does make sense for there to be civs with a science bonus. I don't think focusing solely on science will be as op as it used to be so maybe they'll be able to give more than one or two civs a scientific flavor.

I'm hoping Germany is scientific/economic this time around.

 

[dnoisette]

I was hoping France would be scientific/cultural but I have a feeling that's not gonna be the case.

 

[Amrunril]

It looks like there are no civs targeting specific victory types in Civ6. All civs announced so far have bonuses in at least 2 areas and with quite broad use. This fits well with things developers said about them not wanting to force players to specific path from beginning.

I definitely like the idea not focusing civs on specific victory conditions, but I don't think that getting science bonuses necessarily makes a civ science-victory focused. Babylon, for instance gets a huge early science boost in Civ V, but they can use that science to pursue any goal they want. That's very different from a civ like Greece, which will win a Diplomatic Victory almost by default if it takes full advantage of its UA.

Btw Firaxis already wasted perfect opportunities for fitting science civs - America, England and China. These three were top civs worldwide regarding scientific progress yet they got nothing to science output as far as we know. It's especially a wasted opportunity regarding China which could have some special Eureka mechanics reflecting its IRL tendency to pioneer new technologies (compass, gunpowder, paper, lot of others).

Do we know for sure about China yet? Depending on whether its worker bonuses (extra charge and ability to rush wonders) count as a single ability or two separate abilities, it may still have one ability that hasn't been revealed.

As for other potentially science-focused civs, I think Germany and Arabia (with a medieval focus) are strong contenders among the likely vanilla civs.