Scientific Leader Names suggestions
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Pangur Bán
Deconstructed
But Rome's greatest achievement, arguably, was Christianity.
after all, there is no way EVER that hundreds of years of technologial deprogression, poverty, stravation, xenophobic, (dont cofuse the word with my name, my name is a tribute to Xenophon of Athens 
) barbarism is an acheiment in any way shap or form
) barbarism is an acheiment in any way shap or form
Pangur Bán
Deconstructed
Christianity is today the world's largest religion by quite some distance. More than 1/3rd of all human beings believe in it. Another 1/5th of the Planet follow Islam, a reaction to Roman christianity that emerged from the cultures of the Arabia. Christianity emerged from the Roman Empire, as a Graeco-Roman version of Judaism. It's the first world religion. The Roman Empire did indeed fall in the West politically, but it left the Church, a semi-political organization that preserved most forms of Roman culture.
Masquerouge
Deity
Yes his last rap album was great. Ha ha.
Originally posted by Tavenier
For other countries you could have Michelangelo, Picasso, Dali, Jesus (), Bach, John Lennon!, Muhammed and for the USA Dolly Parton, haha.
Now of course is Picasso Spanish or French, what about Dali, is Jesus Hebrew, Christian, Roman, Palestinian...
So let's just keep John Lennon and Janis Joplin, for every country. HEck, the Beatles are more famous than the Christ, right ?
I think for the French it should be me.
Tavenier
King
I agree with Rufus T.Firefly on most aspects, except for the one he states that there are not many Italians in the US. A lot of the popular actors are originally Italian. Like Danny deVito and Al Pacino. Hell, Mario Bros is an Italian plumber in New York!!
The US are in many ways similar to Rome, some good and some bad aspects. But it is nothing compared to similarities between Rome and European nations.
Just because the Capitol looks Roman doesn't mean you are Roman-like. Here in Holland we have the largest Mosque of the non-Arabic world. It doesn't mean we are like the Ottoman Empire or the Hedzaj.
But as stated by someone here, to compare Rome to countries nowadays is a complete waste of time. You can spend less time what countries DON'T have a Roman influence, like Japan or China. All of Europe and large parts of western Asia and Northern Africa are influenced big time by Rome. From there it spread to colonies and other conquered territories. You probably can say that only countries which weren't conquered by Europeans or Muslims aren't Roman. So Thailand, Ethiopia (until Mussolini), China and Japan. Maybe a few more, but that's it. And even in Ethiopia there are Orthodox people, so that one shouldn't even be in the (short) list.
The US are in many ways similar to Rome, some good and some bad aspects. But it is nothing compared to similarities between Rome and European nations.
Just because the Capitol looks Roman doesn't mean you are Roman-like. Here in Holland we have the largest Mosque of the non-Arabic world. It doesn't mean we are like the Ottoman Empire or the Hedzaj.
But as stated by someone here, to compare Rome to countries nowadays is a complete waste of time. You can spend less time what countries DON'T have a Roman influence, like Japan or China. All of Europe and large parts of western Asia and Northern Africa are influenced big time by Rome. From there it spread to colonies and other conquered territories. You probably can say that only countries which weren't conquered by Europeans or Muslims aren't Roman. So Thailand, Ethiopia (until Mussolini), China and Japan. Maybe a few more, but that's it. And even in Ethiopia there are Orthodox people, so that one shouldn't even be in the (short) list.
Pangur Bán
Deconstructed
Originally posted by Xen
after all, there is no way EVER that hundreds of years of technologial deprogression, poverty, stravation, xenophobic, (dont cofuse the word with my name, my name is a tribute to Xenophon of Athens
I don't think the middle ages was any worse than the imperial period. The Germanic warlords who ruled Europe were probably less barbaric than the Roman generals who would slaughter whole cities.
The Romans advanced very little technologically, similarly with the Greeks. The Germano-Roman successor states gave us the modern world.
Tavenier
King
Originally posted by Masquerouge
Yes his last rap album was great. Ha ha.
Now of course is Picasso Spanish or French, what about Dali, is Jesus Hebrew, Christian, Roman, Palestinian...
So let's just keep John Lennon and Janis Joplin, for every country. HEck, the Beatles are more famous than the Christ, right ?
I think for the French it should be me.
Yes, Jesus would be hard to place in a Civ. And yes, the Beatles were greater then Jesus... Oops, I hope in the US they don't start burning my records. Haha.
I think cultural leaders would be very nice. Then you will have all aspects represented. Military/political, science/inventions, culture/art.
Christianity is middle eastern religion developed in the Roman empire- NOT a Greco-Roman version of Judaism- some of the basics of the religion, at least reagrding the messiah, and interpretations of the Torah are vastlly differnt- which why the two are seperaste today.
saying that christianity was deveoped in Rome is the same as saying Islam was invented in Persia,and that the wheel was developed in Nubia- just because an idea took (or rather was forced upon, concedering Constantines, and subseqeunt emporors religious ruleings) hold in a area dose not m,ean it has a real historical connection with them
what then, is the primary building material of all those aquedutcs? hmm...perhas ROMAN concrete?
wait, what was the material used for early and mid imperial weapons and armour- oh that right, the worlds first mass quatities of steel (a weak steel, but a steel none the less)
hmmm...and I I remember correctly, there might have been a few cultueral institutions that Rome might have had, mabey like a public svhool (as attested by marcus Auralius himself in his annals, though he warns that a private tutor was better, and that no expense should be spared in education
)hmmm... I think,,,oh wait, no, if germanic warlords were the way to go, then I guess this whole idea of equality under law thing has to go to, as well, as these written laws, and govermental bodies there to kind of make sure everthin okay- after all clearlly we dont need that, we have the germanics to look to!
calgacus, that statement was bull, and you know it.
Pangur Bán
Deconstructed
Rome embraced a number of cultures, including the Jews. Christianity was Roman. Christian theology is rooted in Graeco-Roman philosophy, and hellenistic thinking. Christianity is officially a religion of Jesus, a Jew. But it was developed by Romans, and Romanized Jews. The "Church", for instance, has almost nothing to do with middle eastern civilization. Theology has nothing to do with middle eastern civilization either. That too is Roman. All of the Fathers of the Church are Roman; all of the martyrs of the faith are Roman. St Paul, the guy who made Christianity a proselytizing religion, was himself a Roman citizen. There would simply have been no Christianity without Rome.
indeed- Rome did embrace a number of culutres- including Judaism- but at its height, it did not embrace christianity- even the best emperors such as Marcus Aurelius, and Hadrian all warned against christianity- and it seems that they were right.
not that I dislike christianity- but it simply is NOT Roman, nor what Rome needed
Pangur Bán
Deconstructed
Originally posted by Xen
what then, is the primary building material of all those aquedutcs? hmm...perhas ROMAN concrete?
wait, what was the material used for early and mid imperial weapons and armour- oh that right, the worlds first mass quatities of steel (a weak steel, but a steel none the less)
hmmm...and I I remember correctly, there might have been a few cultueral institutions that Rome might have had, mabey like a public svhool (as attested by marcus Auralius himself in his annals, though he warns that a private tutor was better, and that no expense should be spared in education
hmmm... I think,,,oh wait, no, if germanic warlords were the way to go, then I guess this whole idea of equality under law thing has to go to, as well, as these written laws, and govermental bodies there to kind of make sure everthin okay- after all clearlly we dont need that, we have the germanics to look to!
calgacus, that statement was bull, and you know it.
I don't really see how all that contradicts my point. Perhaps you could adopt a clearer and more direct style?
We have a Roman legacy, sure, but Roman civilization was too conservative to have ever given us the world we have now. I thank God the Roman Empire fell, otherwise Europe and the Mediterranean would have got no further than China.
Originally posted by calgacus
I don't really see how all that contradicts my point. Perhaps you could adopt a clearer and more direct style?
We have a Roman legacy, sure, but Roman civilization was too conservative to have ever given us the world we have now. I thank God the Roman Empire fell, otherwise Europe and the Mediterranean would have got no further than China.
correct me if I'm wrong, but you sort of stated that there was no technologiacl progresiion- and here i orvide not only technology, but cultural, and political advances not again seen until...whats this, the rebirth of classical knowledge
Pangur Bán
Deconstructed
If those Emperors "warned against Christianity", that would be of little consequence.
"warning" is basicaly a kinder way of saying the abhorrent thing that they let the persecution of christians contiune- and to some extent endorsed it- and although it dose not value that sactity of Human life, it is a rather interesting note, that at them empire height, it had nothing to do with christianity- and when the empire fell, chirstianity was soaked through
Pangur Bán
Deconstructed
Originally posted by Xen
correct me if I'm wrong, but you sort of stated that there was no technologiacl progresiion- and here i orvide not only technology, but cultural, and political advances not again seen until...whats this, the rebirth of classical knowledge
I didn't say they didn't progress, but over 2000 years of Graeco-Roman civlization brought comparitively little compared with the civilizations of lte medieval and modern Europe.
Classical knowledge was not the basis of the Scientific Revolution or the Age of Discovery. In reality, the Germano-Roman successor states always possessed classical knowledge, and Byzantium lost almost nothing. If classical learning was so important, how then and why did the richer "more classical states" of Byzantium and Islamic civilization remain so backward, then?
Pangur Bán
Deconstructed
The Emperor's weren't warning against Christianity because they thought it would damage progress. They didn't like it because it compromised the authority of the Imperial government and of official Roman rites of public worship.
and what do you mean by "christianity was soaked through"?
care to explain where that whole concept of equality, education, humanistic ideals went to?
how about those little inventions, you know, like that ever famous concrete, and steel, or perhaps that whole mehtod of consturction that allowed in one year the construction of what in the middle ages took 10?
-as for the "backwardness" of the byzantines, and Islam- there wern't- sure they lost things, just liek the resto f the world- but it is reveresd- it is the Byzantines, and the islamics who were at the forefrunt unti the re-birth in the west, not backwards
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