ocedius
C++ induced baldness
Hmm. Let me double check why I did things the way they currently are.
[SDK Civ IV WAR] Piece by Piece
- Thread starter ocedius
- Start date
Ket
Composite Of A Composite
Geebo, I've played A LOT of games where Pottery gave winery and cottage was delayed until monarchy, it makes a very good change that slows the game down a good deal, as the cottage spam comes a bit later. I have altered my strategy to move away from cottage Spam to Farms and Specialist Economy and I feel that this change works very well. In short I am all for it.
ocedius
C++ induced baldness
Ok. The winery/beer argument stands such that Babylonians, atleast 4000 years ago, brewed beer, so monarchy is way, way too-late for wineries. Pottery maybe a better option here. But for cottages, masonry seems like a valid technological prerequisite.
ocedius
C++ induced baldness
Version 0.29 is out. It is relatively stable, but the final word on its stability belongs to geebo. No crashes, freezes, or unwarrented errors on my end so far, but I just ran it a couple of times at autorun.
Please check the editted first post for a complete change log.
Please check the editted first post for a complete change log.
Kat, I agree I have played many games when they changed winery to pottery and cottages to monarchy, but now that I think about it masonry makes more sense, however cottages should require pottery and masonry. This should keep balance, and slow up growth somewhat. Trying 0.29 shortly. will post feedback soon and check stability...
Ket
Composite Of A Composite
geebo said:
@Geebo
I *could* debate that pottery and masonry are the tech to use, but its an abstraction that the designers used when they came up with the concept for Cottage Growth.... Therefore it would be as useful as splitting hairs, I guess it works fine at Masonry/Pottery just as much as anything else. I did happen to like the slow down that occurred with late cottage but its good to keep the focus of the mod on track and that a slow down like that may be more to the focus of Dearmads mod (although speaking of focus I find the religious changes on that mod to be completely out of focus of that mod)
@Ocedius
Some VERY interesting movement in Mongoose's SDK and Mod itself, might want to take a look at merging parts of the SDK into the DLL there seems to be some things that look very promising to add to this mod, and his stuff seems to be compiled for warlords. Specifically:
Mongoose FirstStrikeFix 1.0 (CvUnit.cpp)
Mongoose FloodPlainsFix 1.1 (CvCity.cpp)
Mongoose SiegeMod 1.0 (CvCity.cpp)
Mongoose CityTileCommerceMod 1.0 (CvPlot.cpp)
As well as his air-lethality and intercept mods
AljayBoy
Warlord
Just downloaded, gonna give it a bash and will post my thoughts later, certainly looks promising though, nice work.
ocedius
C++ induced baldness
Issue with barbarian trait ... maybe the culture setting needs to be upped a little. For now, Ger/Dun/Trading posts give a culture each until they expire, which mean the initially a city will still fall behind 10-30 culture points before it starts to really grow.
MongooseMod; I still need to look into what the gameplay changes to and how to best fit it in. But t does sound like a tasty set-o-features don't it.
MongooseMod; I still need to look into what the gameplay changes to and how to best fit it in. But t does sound like a tasty set-o-features don't it.
ocedius
C++ induced baldness
Check these TTs out:
MongooseMod
Sevod Mod
Edit: The reason I have added the links is that PbP needs to flesh out a little. This would certainly increase the playability of the mod, while retaining the PbP feel, i.e. expansion and conflict.
MongooseMod
Sevod Mod
Edit: The reason I have added the links is that PbP needs to flesh out a little. This would certainly increase the playability of the mod, while retaining the PbP feel, i.e. expansion and conflict.
I really like the look of the Sevod Mod, as I told ,ocedius, I feel the modern era gets very dull and boring. The Mongoose one seems ok too however I think horseback riding should be classical not ancient tech, and also meditation after monotheism, I am not buying it, that humans believed in one God, before they meditated but thats just my opinon, however maybe Buddhism should be revealed by a different tech then(something later then the orignal mediation spot), trying 0.29 now then will post feeback.
@ ocedius: Out of curiousity how did you feel about the Siege workshop tweaks I mentioned? As well as the other suggestions?
@ ocedius: Out of curiousity how did you feel about the Siege workshop tweaks I mentioned? As well as the other suggestions?
ocedius
C++ induced baldness
geebo said:
I agree which is why I am adding techs to it as we speak
Historical evidence aside, Bhuddhism /Hinduism seem swapped as the latter is older than the former from what I have read (but that was loooong ago). Another to-be-fixed issue to add to the list.
Any and all comments are welcome.
Haven't gotten to it yet. Was coding in new promotions and events via python so its still no. 2 on my to-do list. no. 1 is making sure slaves will revolt and hunt down/kill heroes in mad revenge before being put down like the 'meingy mutts they are'
ok just played about 100 turn with carthage, so far so good no problems on the stability so far, actually it seems like its running pretty smooth, but I just wanted to post some suggestions and tweaks before I forget them:
-The Viking and Celtic Chariots have a 35% withdrawal chance while the regular Chariot have only 10%, was not sure if this was intentional or not...
-We need plantations to come before calendar, maybe with a new tech such as tools and of course agriculture, but also possibly an existing one such as masonry or bronzeworking,(let me know what you think about this, as I feel its somewhat "iffy" and it definitely would need to be adjusted.
-I see you moved cottages to masonry, however not winery to pottery, this is probably being implemented im guessing Also mabe masonry should cost a little bit more science, since it gives so much. ie. Quarry, Cottage, Great Wall and Lighthouse and Pyramids, for only 112 science on normal, What do yout think?
- all tribal villages and I mean all, seem to give scouts, again I do not know if this was done intentional just pointing it out I feel this is unbalanced if it was intentional, you discover the world too quickly, If you feel tribal villages are overpowered or "cheesy", why not add a barbarian warrior to stay fortified on them, then atleast if you get a tech or gold from the hut, you earned it.
- Slavery needs to be adjusted, actually most of the civics do, however Dermads's New Balance Mod (which you are familiar with I am assuming since you have implemented some aspects from it) does a great job of "spicing" up the civics, really enjoyable if you ask me however I am not 100% sure how balanced they are as I only played a little of that mod, because this came out! hehe...
-Something needs to be done with religion, firaxis made them so generic its unbelievable, but I guess I understand them religious is a touchy subject but has had a huge impact on history, for many reasons concerning DIFFERENCES of the religions. I dug through the forum and re-found abbamouse Realistic Religions mod including Zoroastrianism which I remember from months ago, the mod is somewhat impressive I might add, however I am most sure it is not compatible with warlords so I do not know the work it would take to implement it.. OK I think im getting ahead of myself now I have too many idea... but, check it out if you have the chance...
EDIT: Drydocks should come WAY earlier, it makes sense, boats before steel had experience and promotions as well. Maybe with Compass and Bronzeworking, and Sailing of course and you need to have a harbor in the city that should work. Again let me know what you think.
OK back to the game! let me know what yout think ocedius, Ket, and anybody else who has suggestion...
will post more feedback soon...Ciao
-The Viking and Celtic Chariots have a 35% withdrawal chance while the regular Chariot have only 10%, was not sure if this was intentional or not...
-We need plantations to come before calendar, maybe with a new tech such as tools and of course agriculture, but also possibly an existing one such as masonry or bronzeworking,(let me know what you think about this, as I feel its somewhat "iffy" and it definitely would need to be adjusted.
-I see you moved cottages to masonry, however not winery to pottery, this is probably being implemented im guessing Also mabe masonry should cost a little bit more science, since it gives so much. ie. Quarry, Cottage, Great Wall and Lighthouse and Pyramids, for only 112 science on normal, What do yout think?
- all tribal villages and I mean all, seem to give scouts, again I do not know if this was done intentional just pointing it out I feel this is unbalanced if it was intentional, you discover the world too quickly, If you feel tribal villages are overpowered or "cheesy", why not add a barbarian warrior to stay fortified on them, then atleast if you get a tech or gold from the hut, you earned it.
- Slavery needs to be adjusted, actually most of the civics do, however Dermads's New Balance Mod (which you are familiar with I am assuming since you have implemented some aspects from it) does a great job of "spicing" up the civics, really enjoyable if you ask me however I am not 100% sure how balanced they are as I only played a little of that mod, because this came out! hehe...
-Something needs to be done with religion, firaxis made them so generic its unbelievable, but I guess I understand them religious is a touchy subject but has had a huge impact on history, for many reasons concerning DIFFERENCES of the religions. I dug through the forum and re-found abbamouse Realistic Religions mod including Zoroastrianism which I remember from months ago, the mod is somewhat impressive I might add, however I am most sure it is not compatible with warlords so I do not know the work it would take to implement it.. OK I think im getting ahead of myself now I have too many idea... but, check it out if you have the chance...
EDIT: Drydocks should come WAY earlier, it makes sense, boats before steel had experience and promotions as well. Maybe with Compass and Bronzeworking, and Sailing of course and you need to have a harbor in the city that should work. Again let me know what you think.
OK back to the game! let me know what yout think ocedius, Ket, and anybody else who has suggestion...
will post more feedback soon...Ciao
ocedius
C++ induced baldness
Viking, Celtic and Mongol are known for hit-and-run harrasement of enemies, hence the bonus. In retrospect, maybe it should be toned down to ~ 20% (as they were notoriously uncohesive when facing a foe)
Actually still working on this and the slave revolt thingy, so as soon as I ma done, I'll email you the beta
never noticed this. The villages give things like 51 gold, or workers when I play
Attachments
what level do you play on? Im on Noble, but actually I must be wrong cause I received gold recently from a hut, however I never have got a worker, but still it seems 80%-90% I'm getting scouts. Not really a big deal, but it does kind of make early exploration much easier...
ocedius
C++ induced baldness
geebo said:
Geebo check your PM will you?
ocedius
C++ induced baldness
Changelog for soon to be avaialble version 0.30. Save game compatible with 0.29.
Slaves now revolt and kill Heroes ONLY
Slaves can runaway if left unsupervised
Slaves have a 75 chance to disband if civilization turns away from slavery, and 25% chance to become proper worker units
Keshiks withdraw 30% in addition to standard Keshik attributes
Viking/celtic chariots withdraw 20%
Heroes give a production bonus to whichever city they are in (implemented 0.10, documented now)
wineries refixed to be available at pottery
cottages takes 10, hamlet takes 25, village takes 50 turns to upgrade to town. (documented now)
Diseased units lose 5% health every turn, so build plenty of scouts or they'll just keep on regenerating instead of exploring
Cold1 promotion at hunting, cold2 at archery
Slaves now revolt and kill Heroes ONLY
Slaves can runaway if left unsupervised
Slaves have a 75 chance to disband if civilization turns away from slavery, and 25% chance to become proper worker units
Keshiks withdraw 30% in addition to standard Keshik attributes
Viking/celtic chariots withdraw 20%
Heroes give a production bonus to whichever city they are in (implemented 0.10, documented now)
wineries refixed to be available at pottery
cottages takes 10, hamlet takes 25, village takes 50 turns to upgrade to town. (documented now)
Diseased units lose 5% health every turn, so build plenty of scouts or they'll just keep on regenerating instead of exploring
Cold1 promotion at hunting, cold2 at archery
ocedius
C++ induced baldness
Version 0.3a is up and running. No freezes or hangups on the PbP team end. Slave revolt, escape and emancipation code included, as well as other promotions and unit tweaks. Changelog in the edited first post contains a complete list of the changes.
Enjoy.
Enjoy.
Forsaken, hehehe, i will ask ocedius, and tomarrow he will prob. read this anyway. If Dale's is implentable, and balanced then it seems he would probably add it, with proper tweaks( however I do not want to speak for him, I am just a beta tester, with many ideas, for the most part you need to contact ocedius. He would prob. add it if it benifits the game(with proper balance) Any other suggestions or tweaks are welcome, let me know because I will dwell on almost all logical suggestions
INFORMATIVE: suggestions are suggestions, not no new info(at the time), I and ocedius have a good idea on what to implement, we are just looking for creative criticism on recent additions. Anything that will come after will be looked at for consideration but not neccesarily added....
Also members, please post feedback it is well appreciated, ocedius has done some GREAT modding work with the mergers and additions, however the only way to truly have a stable version is 1) me to test( which is constantly ongoing), and 2) is others to post feedback, with criticism. Though I want something however the other members might disagree. If its possible I would like some more input
P.S. Ket thank you for your input it is highly appreciated, however we could use you in the main mod developement, again if you are interested, please PM ocedius, if not then the criticism is just simply helpful!
Ciao, and don't forget post feedback!!!!...
INFORMATIVE: suggestions are suggestions, not no new info(at the time), I and ocedius have a good idea on what to implement, we are just looking for creative criticism on recent additions. Anything that will come after will be looked at for consideration but not neccesarily added....
Also members, please post feedback it is well appreciated, ocedius has done some GREAT modding work with the mergers and additions, however the only way to truly have a stable version is 1) me to test( which is constantly ongoing), and 2) is others to post feedback, with criticism. Though I want something however the other members might disagree. If its possible I would like some more input
P.S. Ket thank you for your input it is highly appreciated, however we could use you in the main mod developement, again if you are interested, please PM ocedius, if not then the criticism is just simply helpful!
Ciao, and don't forget post feedback!!!!...
Ket
Composite Of A Composite
Few things....
Dale's Combat Mod: Its not warlords computable yet and there are some crash issues with it at the moment, its a rather complex SDK mod... Just the very concept of it is fairly complex with a 20x7 array in memory for the mass unit battles. I have not personally used it as of yet (honestly I have not loaded up 1.61 since warlords came out)
Now I am not at all saying not to use it, all I am saying is it might be best to hold off at the very least until he makes it warlords computable and then I imagine that the Beyond Compare/Merge job that will be needed will be fairly extensive...
Mongoose SDK: He has some crossover into Dale's Mod, Since his code is ready for warlords I would say push as much of this in as we can, if the changes seem like they fit the "Vision" I do know the FirstStrike Fix that he did is the one that Faraxis will be using in the patch.
The Lopez's MAD project... Damn I wish this was ready for warlords!!!!
Ok, I gave a link to the map in the other thread, now we just need to figure out what we want to do, use that... Modify different Civ's into it.... Or even do the change in the .dll for 24 civ's and do a 24 civ version of it.
Religion and Civics Seem to be a logical place to start to discuss things next. As long as we don't go python in our changes I can make the edits to the Civic System fairly easy once we determine what we want to do with it. (I'd suggest looking at mongoose mod, or some of the civic revisits for a base and modify from there.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=179138
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=181998
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=180203
Another suggestion of a merge - Diplomacy Based (EDIT: Already in ToDo List)
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=182550
Hmmm I like the idea of "Late" Bonus's, I assume the Calendar connection is due to crop rotation and mass scheduled planting. I'm not 100% sure I agree with this coming much earlier.
I've never seen a run of all scouts. I've NEVER gotten a worker (I play Prince)
I addressed Civics and Religions already and agree.
Drydocks, Hmmm I dont see much of a call to push that to an earlier point in time of , maybe anotother building that gives a small ammount of xp on boat build. Could allways double the xp on drydocks and give lighthouse +2xp to ships... not sure on this at all, Im all for promotions
I think we need to take a look at leader traits as well. Has there been a good deal of playtesting on the Sprawl? Im concerned with the -25% gold and how it balances . But i've yet to load up Rome
In general I'm concerned that the leader traits will become a huge issue, I'm wondering if we should shoot for 3 traits. 2 base traits plus one of the special ones... Then again I was kicking some major ass when I did the Japanese test game, even with the suicide units bug the game was pretty much in mop up mode.
Oh yea I joined the team (we saw that one coming eh?)
Have Beyond Compare 2/XML Spy/Code Blocks/Ultra Edit Studio working and configured.
Dale's Combat Mod: Its not warlords computable yet and there are some crash issues with it at the moment, its a rather complex SDK mod... Just the very concept of it is fairly complex with a 20x7 array in memory for the mass unit battles. I have not personally used it as of yet (honestly I have not loaded up 1.61 since warlords came out)
Now I am not at all saying not to use it, all I am saying is it might be best to hold off at the very least until he makes it warlords computable and then I imagine that the Beyond Compare/Merge job that will be needed will be fairly extensive...
Mongoose SDK: He has some crossover into Dale's Mod, Since his code is ready for warlords I would say push as much of this in as we can, if the changes seem like they fit the "Vision" I do know the FirstStrike Fix that he did is the one that Faraxis will be using in the patch.
The Lopez's MAD project... Damn I wish this was ready for warlords!!!!
Ok, I gave a link to the map in the other thread, now we just need to figure out what we want to do, use that... Modify different Civ's into it.... Or even do the change in the .dll for 24 civ's and do a 24 civ version of it.
Religion and Civics Seem to be a logical place to start to discuss things next. As long as we don't go python in our changes I can make the edits to the Civic System fairly easy once we determine what we want to do with it. (I'd suggest looking at mongoose mod, or some of the civic revisits for a base and modify from there.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=179138
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=181998
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=180203
Another suggestion of a merge - Diplomacy Based (EDIT: Already in ToDo List)
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=182550
Hmmm I like the idea of "Late" Bonus's, I assume the Calendar connection is due to crop rotation and mass scheduled planting. I'm not 100% sure I agree with this coming much earlier.
On most of the earth maps and a good deal of the maps designed for specific mods they are removed. That being said I do like the idea of barbarian cities being pre-placed on the map, with the tech conquest python it adds a nice touch to tech up on barb cities and it not being to easy.
I've never seen a run of all scouts. I've NEVER gotten a worker (I play Prince)
I addressed Civics and Religions already and agree.
Drydocks, Hmmm I dont see much of a call to push that to an earlier point in time of , maybe anotother building that gives a small ammount of xp on boat build. Could allways double the xp on drydocks and give lighthouse +2xp to ships... not sure on this at all, Im all for promotions
I think we need to take a look at leader traits as well. Has there been a good deal of playtesting on the Sprawl? Im concerned with the -25% gold and how it balances . But i've yet to load up Rome
In general I'm concerned that the leader traits will become a huge issue, I'm wondering if we should shoot for 3 traits. 2 base traits plus one of the special ones... Then again I was kicking some major ass when I did the Japanese test game, even with the suicide units bug the game was pretty much in mop up mode.
Oh yea I joined the team
(we saw that one coming eh?)Have Beyond Compare 2/XML Spy/Code Blocks/Ultra Edit Studio working and configured.
