SE Best ball #1

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Dec 5, 2005
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Specialist Best Ball Challenge



After reading lord knows how many SE vs CE vs AEIOU economies, I don't feel as though I really have a better grasp of what would be recognized as a "pure" specialist economy, and how it would develop. So I hereby invoke the power of the hive mind.

Originally, I had envisioned this as more of a succession game concept, but I've decided to try something a bit more free form, to allow for flexible schedules during the holidays and beyond.

So the primary goal in the Specialist Best Ball series will be to craft a pure specialist economy, subject to additional constraints which will change from game to game.

Suggestions and comments from the peanut gallery are welcome, but all are invited to contribute to the experiment. The drill is to take some save that represents your idea of a pure specialist economy, and play it to the next checkpoint. Then post your save, along with your own comments on play. When you are ready, grab another save; lather, rinse, and repeat.

Discovering and sharing important techniques is an important part of this project, so the attitudes you brought to the Challenge series are the right ones to bring in here - multiple plays of the same segment are welcome, as is reading ahead, replaying, and so forth.

It may turn out that a map is totally unsuitable for a specialist economy. Suck it up and give it your best shot. At worst we learn what sorts of conditions absolutely require a different choice of strategies.

Experiment #1



I've decided to launch from a baseline similar to that used by Wodan's Head to Head experiment.

Therefore, we have Monarch Continents, leading the Zulu to Glory!

bestball1.start.jpg


Shaka is Aggressive and Expansive. The Zulu start with Agriculture and Hunting. Impi replace Spearmen with extra movement and mobility. Ikhanda replace Barracks, saving 20% on city maintenance, but at a higher production investment.

Victory Conditions



Everything is enabled. I deliberately chose continents in the hopes that research would need to stretch out to Astronomy, but haven't doctored the map in any way to guarantee this. Choose whatever condition makes the most sense from the position(s) you find yourself in.

Additional Conditions



Goodie huts are disabled. Kind of a bummer when you are a civ starting with Hunting, but so it goes.

Pyramids are nerfed: they may be built or captured, but you may not adopt any government civic before discovering the required technology. SE without representation is part of this exercise.

Mechanics



When you report a result (there is no obligation to report all results) please be sure to attach your save (so that another player can take off from your position), and link to the post where you found the save you started from (to make it easier for people to follow the reports back to the starting position).

The save you attach should not include any moves on the checkpoint turn - allow your successor to control their own fate (in other words, we want the autosave).

Reloading between checkpoints is strongly discouraged.

Official check points


  • 2400 BC (Turn 40)
  • 1000 BC (Turn 75)
  • 125 BC (Turn 110)
  • 600 AD (Turn 140)
  • 1100 AD (Turn 170)
  • 1400 AD (Turn 200)
  • 1600 AD (Turn 230)
  • 1750 AD (Turn 260)
  • 1820 AD (Turn 280)
  • 1860 AD (Turn 300)
  • 1900 AD (Turn 320)
  • 1925 AD (Turn 335)
  • 1940 AD (Turn 350)
 

Available Saves



As results are published, I'll be linking to the posts from here, at least until I cannot keep up.

2400 BC


1000 BC


125 BC


600 AD


1100 AD


1400 AD


1600 AD


1750 AD


1820 AD


1860 AD


1900 AD


1925 AD


1940 AD

 
SE without representation will make the game harder, but still doable on monarch. By pure SE strategy, are you:

(1) Allow to cottage spam the capital?
(2) Keep the cottages from captures cities?
(3) Build cottages on non-irrigatable lands prior to chain irrigation?
 
I really think we shuold stop calling SE - SE, rather it is FE - farm economy. Economy that is shaped with farms is FE, one that is shaped with cottages is CE. The fact that you use cottages on few tiles doesn't mean you'r not running FE.
 
One idea could be t have a 'no cottages' best ball. Then you could call it whatever you want, it won't be a CE.

I'm not clear on the mechanics of it. I grab a save I like the look of, can I play my own again. What is the best ball aspect? I thought that was when the 'best' save is chosen for all to play on from. Is it the best save in one's own opinion?
 

Specialist Best Ball Challenge



After reading lord knows how many SE vs CE vs AEIOU economies, I don't feel as though I really have a better grasp of what would be recognized as a "pure" specialist economy, and how it would develop. So I hereby invoke the power of the hive mind.

Originally, I had envisioned this as more of a succession game concept, but I've decided to try something a bit more free form, to allow for flexible schedules during the holidays and beyond.

So the primary goal in the Specialist Best Ball series will be to craft a pure specialist economy, subject to additional constraints which will change from game to game.

Oh, duh, golf reference. :hammer2: I live in San Diego, you'd think I'd have gotten that faster. :D

Thanks to the holidays, I've actually got time to play instead of just live vicariously through the ALC and EMC games at work. :shifty: This sounds like fun. I've almost always run a hybrid econ, so it should be interesting to see how miserably I fail at sticking to a strict SE type thing.
 
I actially would advice to change format.

Save your save as scenario, by loading it into world builder and save as scenario.

Then people will have ability to select dificulty level of initial save to sute them. That will do 2 thinks.
First, advantage of farms over cottages more pronounsed the higher dificulty level is. Logic is really very simple.

Cottages economy is linear. More cottagess=more research. the only way to have faster research with cottagess is to have more of them.
So, on early dificulty level when AI bonuses are small self research everythign by just having more cottagess then opponents works.

SE, or betetr say FE is not linear.
Biggest advantage of ligtbulbing is in getting axead of AI in ligbulb line of tech and trade it around.
That let this strategy to be competitive at time when AI bonuses are overwhelming.
 
I think that would defeat the 'best ball' portion of the 'challenge'. The way I read it id that everyone plays to 2400 BC, then we pick the best one, then 1000 BC, etc. and on like that.

If you alter the difficulty levels, there isn't really a 'best ball'.
 
The problem is choosing level thats suits everyone. How many people want to try this on Immortal, Emperor? FE best on highest levels.

What I suggest is, lets simply do something like Alfs games, but, only with FE. This would bring more disscussion, and people would learn more as the game progresses.
 
^^^agreed, let's gather the best FE players and do a game at emperor+ skill level, preferably immortal/deity. acidsatyr could lead it, if he'd be willing.
 
LOL NO!! I won't play another FE :lol: forget it, too much work
I'll just throw some suggestions in. :D
 
My attempt on best ball kind of think did not work.
Every resonable player simply bail out, leaving only me and some folk who want to learn.

It is deity/vanilla/standart settings, fractial map, normal speed game.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=192600

I think it is quete interesting game with me implementing diplomacy strat people claim unusable on higher level and from resonably dificult starting position.

Pity it is allmost dead.
 
I really think we shuold stop calling SE - SE, rather it is FE - farm economy. Economy that is shaped with farms is FE, one that is shaped with cottages is CE. The fact that you use cottages on few tiles doesn't mean you'r not running FE.

Farm Economy just sounds blah. Like an economy full of poor farmers. Nah. Specialist Economy, now that sounds professional :p
 
Watch out for the farmer movement, they like to attack with hoes and pitchforks. ^^
 
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