Seas

[Howard Mahler]

As I recall Civ 3 has seas, in addition to oceans.
Certain ships could sail seas, but not the ocean.

This allowed contact and trade with some new civilizations after the discovery of the relevant tech. However, there was still the unknown across the ocean awaiting further tech advance.

Currently there is only ocean. The long gap between when one can sail the ocean and take colonists across is unrealistic. The Spanish had colonies across the Atlantic within a decade of Columbus first voyage.

I think the Civ 3 system with seas worked better than the current Civ 4.

P.S. The Civ 3 suicide galleys were taken out of Civ 4.
This was a very good thing!

 

[frizzy]

Crossing the Atlantic involves going through the RL equivalent of "ocean tiles," and Columbus and the Spanish did it with galleons and caravels just like in-game, so I don't understand your complaint with respect to your example.

I never understood what a "sea" tile was supposed to be in Civ3, anyway. Any water more than one day's light of rowing from the coast was just as risky as open ocean, so why a difference?

 

[Howard Mahler]

You are much more likely to get a violent storm or find yourself belcalme for a long period of time in the middle of the Altantic Ocean than in the Mediterrean Sea for example. Vessels that can handle the sea may be less suited to the open ocean.

Also in Civ 4 there is usually one to three century gap between getting optics and astronomy. So you can discover new land and circumnavigate the globe with caravels.
However, it takes you another century or three to be able to trade, colonize, or attack with Galleons.

 

[frizzy]

You are much more likely to get a violent storm or find yourself belcalme for a long period of time in the middle of the Altantic Ocean than in the Mediterrean Sea for example. Vessels that can handle the sea may be less suited to the open ocean.

It doesn't take a violent storm to sink a galley. Any storm will do, and shipwrecks due to storms were very common in the ancient Mediterranean. It was not safe. Plenty of examples in the Bible and other ancient literature of the Med. Being in shallower water than the open ocean was irrelevant.

Being becalmed was also irrelevant to a galley. In fact, winds in the Mediterranean are not reliable. That's why galley use in the Med and other seas persisted until the 19th century when steam engines could replace rowers.

Also in Civ 4 there is usually one to three century gap between getting optics and astronomy. So you can discover new land and circumnavigate the globe with caravels.
However, it takes you another century or three to be able to trade, colonize, or attack with Galleons.

The problem here is that Galleons come too late in the game, because there's nothing between them and Transports. The game puts Galleons in the mid-range of a long span of maritime technological progress, so the step up from caravels to Galleons is too large. The game also erroneously links oceanic navigation to optics and astronomy, which historically were helpful but not necessary.

Please note my previous point: even if the game had "sea" tiles you still wouldn't be able to cross the Atlantic with trade or land units because it would have "ocean" tiles between "A" and "B". Putting sea tiles back in the game would not solve the problem you're describing.

 

[Camikaze]

I think it's appropriate to mention: in the current screenshots available of Civ 5, whilst the ocean doesn't specifically feature, what can clearly be seen is coastal tiles and ocean tiles. 2 types. So I doubt your idea of seas will come to fruition.

Now, IMO, what you want to be achieved can be achieved through the suicide galleys you mention. I don't know what the problem with having them would be.