Seedships

[L4Psha]

Start with this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_Colonial_Transporter

and make it bigger and longer.

The entire colonial transporter maybe waiting in the orbit, and what we saw was just passenger launchers waiting to be integrated into the main colonial transporter.

for generation ship size, maybe we can start with this concept:

http://gundam.wikia.com/wiki/Space_Colony

The average size of an “open-type” cylindrical colony is 6.4 km in diameter and 36.0 km in length.

But this is, again, insane. How could sponsor which supposed to be short on resources built such giant ship. Comparing to other seedships, which, i think is 1.5-2 km long.

Also, i don't think that they transport resources from Moon, Mars or something else. They have no mines there. I remember that daming mocked at the conference that they construct only a settlement on for a year or two. But also it was siad there that it would be better to spend resources on mining interstellar bodies rather than seeding.
So i think that they don't have a developed mining facilities on other planets in solar system.

 

[Lord Tirian]

But this is, again, insane. How could sponsor which supposed to be short on resources built such giant ship. Comparing to other seedships, which, i think is 1.5-2 km long.

Population size, or rather, the lack thereof. If sufficiently diverse, 160 people are sufficient for a 8-10 generation journey in terms of genetic viability.

So, perhaps, Al Falah only carried a few hundred desperate souls instead of the 10k cryogenically frozen colonists. At this point, a 1+ km seedship might be sufficient. After all, an aircraft carrier can carry a crew of over 5,000 people. Reduce that to a fifth, add advanced recycling and I can see how it might work.

You don't even need a spinning ship if you can sustain acceleration at 0.5+ g, that would make a reasonably substitute in a skyscraper-style ship.

 

[L4Psha]

Yeah, and when they land it will be nothing compare to other colonies. In population size i mean. I know that population number in civ are abstract coefficient, which is not linear, but nevertheless, how much time it should take for them to rise their numbers?

Maybe its a good idea to build such type of ship, but it also must decelerate, so crew must live on the other side, which could make some problems.

 

[poom3619]

If you're wondering how he eats and breathes, and other science facts...

I don't mind any serious discussion about "plothole" and possibility that we understand about space flight as much as human in 500 years later.

 

[Lord Tirian]

Yeah, and when they land it will be nothing compare to other colonies. In population size i mean. I know that population number in civ are abstract coefficient, which is not linear, but nevertheless, how much time it should take for them to rise their numbers?

It depends on how many people are in the cryoships. Do we have a number on that? It's absolutely possible that they only contain a thousand people or so - it's plenty to start afresh (especially if you're bringing embryos). They are not colony ships or arks, they are seed ships. They are not about rescuing high numbers of people, they are all about having just enough to start human civilisation anew.

Maybe its a good idea to build such type of ship, but it also must decelerate, so crew must live on the other side, which could make some problems.

Not a problem if that was known in advance, it's not like everything will suddenly flip upside down. They will probably turn off the engines, experience 0g for a few days and re-arrange everything and then gently restart the engines, pointing into the opposite direction.

 

[L4Psha]

10000 people. Hutama said so in his interview.

Also, if you have such acceleration you will reach a huge part of a lightspeed in a year. So they will have gravitation only during this time, because after that, if i'm not mistaken, it will decelerate during his approach to lightspeed.

 

[poom3619]

I think population in CivBE is representation of development of infrastructure and machine that used to work tiles instead of "population" in literal sense.

 

[SupremacyKing2]

I think population in CivBE is representation of development of infrastructure and machine that used to work tiles instead of "population" in literal sense.

Yeah, the population number in the city box has never been a literal or accurate representation of population in any civ game. It has always been an abstraction since civ1.

 

[Westwall]

I just realized that if we ever actually start colonizing other worlds in a wave of mass migration into outer space, the last thing anyone should call it is "The Seeding."

That's such a dehumanizing and uninspiring way to describe humanity's destiny among the stars, and the last thing most people will want to think of themselves as is just the seeds to a much greater civilization that they will never see.

To encourage people to really get on board with a mass colonization program, those overseeing it would have to call it something epic and inspirational that would really give those participating a sense of importance.

I'd call it... "The Great Leap Forward."

Guffaw.

 

[Galgus]

When it's only a tiny portion of the population that can go, Seeding is far more accurate.

 

[Ryika]

I'd call it... "The Great Leap Forward."

Well, good that you're not a game developer then.

 

[Westwall]

I also had an idea for finally introducing a culture victory to BE.

I call it... "The Cultural Revolution."

 

[Ryika]

I also had an idea for finally introducing a culture victory to BE.

I call it... "The Cultural Revolution."

Why not call it "Victory by Culture" instead?

 

[GeoModder]

Also, i don't think that they transport resources from Moon, Mars or something else. They have no mines there. I remember that daming mocked at the conference that they construct only a settlement on for a year or two. But also it was siad there that it would be better to spend resources on mining interstellar bodies rather than seeding.
So i think that they don't have a developed mining facilities on other planets in solar system.

If there are no economic assets to protect out of Earth's atmosphere, then why does the PAC talks about military spaceflight in that panel discussion? Presumedly mobile assets to direct where needed? To cover one's territory only on Earth itself, you merely need a flotilla of satellites.
Also, it appears we're given a rough estimate of the resource cost of a seeding vessel in that same discussion. 1,5 years worth of the entire PAC aerospace industrial efforts.

Further more, Kozlov speaks about the Slavic Federation being the first one to establish an extraterrestrial colony (presumedly on the Moon). I don't know about you, but I doubt that would merely be a scientific outpost, and indicates that other political entities established the same feat later on.

 

[Westwall]

Why not call it "Victory by Culture" instead?

Woosh.

 

[4N4C0ND4]

Why not call it "Victory by Culture" instead?

I think (?) that you missed the joke

Or maybe it's just me, but the Mao references are strong in these posts

 

[L4Psha]

If there are no economic assets to protect out of Earth's atmosphere, then why does the PAC talks about military spaceflight in that panel discussion? Presumedly mobile assets to direct where needed? To cover one's territory only on Earth itself, you merely need a flotilla of satellites.
Also, it appears we're given a rough estimate of the resource cost of a seeding vessel in that same discussion. 1,5 years worth of the entire PAC aerospace industrial efforts.

Further more, Kozlov speaks about the Slavic Federation being the first one to establish an extraterrestrial colony (presumedly on the Moon). I don't know about you, but I doubt that would merely be a scientific outpost, and indicates that other political entities established the same feat later on.

Construction of such colony, with mining capabilities on Moon, maybe will cost more resources, than to contruct a seedship. Load, which you can deliver on Moon is several times smaller, than load you can deliver on Earth's orbit. Maybe they look at ssedships with such scepticism, because it will take so many launches of shuttles and rockets. Thousands maybe.
As i remember it was three years. But nevertheless, i think that such country as PAC can launch one rocket a day, if they really want to do it.

 

[Ryika]

I think (?) that you missed the joke

Or maybe it's just me, but the Mao references are strong in these posts

What I'm saying is: Both of his examples don't represent what is going on in Beyond Earth, just throwing in references that don't fit is silly. As far as I'm aware, there are no historical events that come even close to describing what is going on in the Seeding, so giving it its own unique and interesting name is the right thing to do.

Or are you saying that you think he only made these posts for the references? Well, sure, then I fell for his trolling. But I don't think that's what he was doing.

 

[GeoModder]

Construction of such colony, with mining capabilities on Moon, maybe will cost more resources, than to contruct a seedship. Load, which you can deliver on Moon is several times smaller, than load you can deliver on Earth's orbit. Maybe they look at ssedships with such scepticism, because it will take so many launches of shuttles and rockets. Thousands maybe.

The best economic solution would be to deliver a production facility at a good spot on the Moon and let it become self-sustenant before letting it create the resources for other projects. Its still way more cost-effective then literally launching millions of tons of supplies/materials/people in orbit from Earth's surface. An equal-mass load launched from Earth orbit to the Moon's surface (or the other way around) with chemical-fueled rockets takes at least a quarter less energy. And from the Moon you're not restricted to the use of rockets to bring things to Earth orbit. For instance, an electromagnetic launcher can be used.

Again, this whole discussion is void when a sort of space elevator is used on Earth. If only for materials.

As i remember it was three years. But nevertheless, i think that such country as PAC can launch one rocket a day, if they really want to do it.

That was what Wu said, but Sochua called him on doubling his figures for a Seeding ship compared to Wu's figures for military spaceflight, so...
Also, Sochua's expedition isn't supposed to be the only PAC Seeding vessel.

Verbatim:
(AUTHOR’S NOTE: It was soon after this conference that Daoming Sochua volunteered to head one of the missions to colonize other planets for the Pan-Asia Cooperative. Sochua’s singleminded-ness drove her to outfit and launch “her” colony.)

 

[Westwall]

What I'm saying is: Both of his examples don't represent what is going on in Beyond Earth, just throwing in references that don't fit is silly. As far as I'm aware, there are no historical events that come even close to describing what is going on in the Seeding, so giving it its own unique and interesting name is the right thing to do.

Or are you saying that you think he only made these posts for the references? Well, sure, then I fell for his trolling. But I don't think that's what he was doing.

Jesus Christ.

Well at least 4N4C0ND4 got it.