Dubai is a city, but ok))) But if the rich, why don't they built ordinary ship? And i doubt about that it's 200 years in the future, it will be no surprise that there is no oil left there.
Seedships
- Thread starter L4Psha
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Dubai is a city, but ok))) But if the rich, why don't they built ordinary ship? And i doubt about that it's 200 years in the future, it will be no surprise that there is no oil left there.
SupremacyKing2
Deity
Yes, that is something else to remember. The old sponsors definitely had a lot more resources, so they were able to build many more seedships. The new sponsors like Al Falah, NSA and INTGR, being less resource rich, were only able to build one ship. So, I think that kinda answers your question too: they barely had enough resources for one ship.
True. So I think it is reasonable to assume that the new sponsors got resources and tech that they needed from other sponsors. Earth would still have millions of people after all.
No it doesn't. Again, generation ship must be bigger, maybe many more times than cryoship. So if they are so poor on resources, why they built such big and ship? And again, you must deliver its parts and assemble it in the orbit. Maybe it would be cheaper just to buy those cryocapsules?
Millions? Earth in BE overpopulated. There many billions there. They send only several hundreds of thousands.
SupremacyKing2
Deity
Maybe Al Falah did not populate her generational ships with 10,000 people like the old sponsors did. Maybe her generational ships only had 1,000 people. That would allow her ships to be smaller. Also, maybe Al Falah did not have the crogenic tech or maybe they chose not to use cryogenics for cultural/religious reasons.
Also, do we know that Al Falah is poor? You seem to assuming that Al Falah is like Mad Max, a bunch of survivors scrounging around for water in the desert. Of course, a sponsor that poor would indeed never be able to send a seed ship off to another planet.
Personally, I don't think Al Falah was that poor. Al Falah would have had cities and millions of people.
Well, I was guessing based on the fact that the Great Mistake probably killed millions of people. Nuclear wars and radical climate change tend to do that. So billions might have dropped to millions when the dust settled.
Hutama said in his interview that population of Polystralia is 5 billion people. I afraid to suggest how many citizen have other countries.
It was said that Al-falah "was not able to secure the technology needed to create Cryostasis pods like everyone else". So there is no cultural\religious reasons. Maybe they have only 1000 peoples on board. But i afraid they will have some crossbreeding problems. Maybe. And they couldn't start with the same population as other sponsors.
It was said that Al-falah "was not able to secure the technology needed to create Cryostasis pods like everyone else". So there is no cultural\religious reasons. Maybe they have only 1000 peoples on board. But i afraid they will have some crossbreeding problems. Maybe. And they couldn't start with the same population as other sponsors.
SupremacyKing2
Deity
Well, if Poly is 5 billion, who's to say that Al Falah is not 1 billion people strong? My point is that Al Falah is not some small, poor sponsor. If they have millions, or even more than 1 billion people in their territory, they would have the manpower and resources to build a seed ship. I don't think building a generational ship for a several thousand people would be impossible.
KrikkitTwo
Immortal
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Why would a generation ship need to be bigger?
The machinery needed to freeze a human being, and keep from malfunctioning over a few hundred years before thawing them out again could easily be far larger, heavier, and more expensive than the machinery needed to provide life support for a human being (who would maintain the equipment themselves over hundreds of years).
Or it could be cheap and easy... neither of those are something we can do, any more than people in the early 1800s could send video pictures or fly any faster than the wind.
SupremacyKing2
Deity
With our current tech, astronauts sleep standing up in what are essentially sleeping bags attached to the wall. Since space is at a premium, I would imagine a generational ship would do something similar and pack as many sleeping bags in a room as a possible. So, the sleeping space would be pretty small. It's not like people are going to have their own studio apartment.
Here is what I think everybody has been missing: All the ships need to contain farms, recycling systems and habitation modules, because those are eventually needed on the planet. The colonists have no idea to what extent they will be able to make use of the local environment after planetfall so every ship needs to contain the necessary systems and resources to keep themselves supplied indefinitely. This means that every colony ships essentially needs to contain enough resources to be a viable generation ship.
So, all the other sponsors hauled their recyclers, plants, and habitation modules up to orbit then packed them away for the journey. On top of that they added the expense of hauling up the materials to build a fancy cryogenics module. Al-Falah hauled all the necessary colony equipment up to orbit and just set it up, moved in, and started living in it to remove the need for additional cryogenic equipment for both themselves and the plants they were taking with them. Due to all the equipment already being deployed the Al-Falah generation ship was almost certainly considerably larger in terms of volume, but because every ship needed that kind of equipment in addition to the cryopods I think it's reasonable to expect that the Al-Falah effort actually required less mass, which is the only factor relevant for space travel.
So, all the other sponsors hauled their recyclers, plants, and habitation modules up to orbit then packed them away for the journey. On top of that they added the expense of hauling up the materials to build a fancy cryogenics module. Al-Falah hauled all the necessary colony equipment up to orbit and just set it up, moved in, and started living in it to remove the need for additional cryogenic equipment for both themselves and the plants they were taking with them. Due to all the equipment already being deployed the Al-Falah generation ship was almost certainly considerably larger in terms of volume, but because every ship needed that kind of equipment in addition to the cryopods I think it's reasonable to expect that the Al-Falah effort actually required less mass, which is the only factor relevant for space travel.
GeoModder
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Sofar, INTEGR and the NSA seem to have launched a 'seeding ship' like the first eight sponsors did. If not exactly in appearance, at least in function (colonists in cryogenics and such). Al Falah is the odd one in this second sponsor batch.
The parts of the leaked BERT intro we saw showed two of those 'seeding vessels' in orbit at a colony planet, a newly arriving one (presumedly from an aquatic-based sponsor) and what appears to be the Franco-Iberian vessel. They looked very similar to the ship we see in BE's intro, which presumedly is Kavitha's seeding vessel. So to me it looks that most of the sponsors use a similar design.
The BE trailer showed us these seeding ships were constructed in dedicated 'space docks' at the time of the first Seeding.
To me, all this indicates that only the colonists, supplies, and specific technological stuff came from Earth, but the bulk of the building materials from someplace else, like the Moon, IF not some type of space elevator was in use at the onset of the 23th century. Its a matter of economics. Its neigh impossible to lift of Earth's gravity well the amount of tonnage needed to construct at least a dozen seeding vessels the size we saw by means of classical rocket launches.
The parts of the leaked BERT intro we saw showed two of those 'seeding vessels' in orbit at a colony planet, a newly arriving one (presumedly from an aquatic-based sponsor) and what appears to be the Franco-Iberian vessel. They looked very similar to the ship we see in BE's intro, which presumedly is Kavitha's seeding vessel. So to me it looks that most of the sponsors use a similar design.
The BE trailer showed us these seeding ships were constructed in dedicated 'space docks' at the time of the first Seeding.
To me, all this indicates that only the colonists, supplies, and specific technological stuff came from Earth, but the bulk of the building materials from someplace else, like the Moon, IF not some type of space elevator was in use at the onset of the 23th century. Its a matter of economics. Its neigh impossible to lift of Earth's gravity well the amount of tonnage needed to construct at least a dozen seeding vessels the size we saw by means of classical rocket launches.
Cyon
Cosmonaut
A generation ship needs to be huge, we have 20 000 sqm land area on earth per person today, I have trouble seeing them needing less than half that, so once Sq km for 10 000 people, that is one sqkm that needs gravity and light.
Galgus
Emperor
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Honestly I think of it in terms of a Vault from Fallout, with advanced recycling and very, well, compact living quarters.
I like to think the seed ships resembles the colony ship you build for a science victory in Civ 5. After it enter space, it deploys or hooks up with other components, and the shuttle part is used to scout the terrain and deploy the units you arrive with ahead of the pod. But that's just what I want to believe.
As mentioned before, the big lander that deploys your first city must only be a segment with more stuff not shown in animation. Like, the lander builds the settlement, another ship brings the colonists, and the cryo module and engine components just get left in space.
As mentioned before, the big lander that deploys your first city must only be a segment with more stuff not shown in animation. Like, the lander builds the settlement, another ship brings the colonists, and the cryo module and engine components just get left in space.
KrikkitTwo
Immortal
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We need far less than that (small amount of arable land on Earth + efficiency from artificial environment) but
1 sq km
~1 m high
3 million m^3
or ~200 m in each direction
big but that is for a major process.
I'd think it could be 100 m in each direction easily.
Halbbruder
Prince
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Concerning Al-Falah, I read some research study where jelly fish who were born and bred in space have no situational awareness whatsoever when they're moved back to earth. They lose all coordination because they're unfamiliar with gravity. To resolve that issue, Al-Falah would have placed greater emphasis on establishing gravity on the generation ship.
gunnergoz
Cat Herder
That's easy...spin the living quarters of the ship in some fashion, just as space station concepts do. That would probably be something that any long-term manned space flight would resort to. For a great example of how to execute this, look at the Discovery I space ship in Kubrick's classic film, 2001: a Space Odyssey.
Zenstrive
Ocean King
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Start with this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_Colonial_Transporter
and make it bigger and longer.
The entire colonial transporter maybe waiting in the orbit, and what we saw was just passenger launchers waiting to be integrated into the main colonial transporter.
for generation ship size, maybe we can start with this concept:
http://gundam.wikia.com/wiki/Space_Colony
The average size of an “open-type” cylindrical colony is 6.4 km in diameter and 36.0 km in length.
and make it bigger and longer.
The entire colonial transporter maybe waiting in the orbit, and what we saw was just passenger launchers waiting to be integrated into the main colonial transporter.
for generation ship size, maybe we can start with this concept:
http://gundam.wikia.com/wiki/Space_Colony
The average size of an “open-type” cylindrical colony is 6.4 km in diameter and 36.0 km in length.
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