Selling resources

[Sporally]

I keep thinking of this every time I play, so now I need your eyes on it.

Hardest question and main topic of this thread:
1) When you sell your resources to begin with you usally get 250 or even up to 300 when you become friendly with them. I figure this is usally worth selling considering how much I can get for that money and how much they gain from the extra hapiness they gain.

There are several parametres I figure are worth considering when estimating if you should sell your surplus of resources or not. Most important ones first:
a) Era (300 is really a lot more to begin with where you earn like +2 per turn. Later you get could earn like 100-200 per turn, and 300 usally isn't anything to talk about)
b) Status of friendship (gold harvest could go from something like 100-300 )
c) Their victory progress (are they going for a victory are you beeting them to the finish line)

Maybe there are more, but this is what I could think of right now. So in short, how do you guys estimate when to sell and when not to? Finding out who to sell to is not so hard, but I figure that sometimes it's just better keeping your surplus resource for yourself even though it'll never get to any use.

I you could set up some examples of the 3 parametres (and maybe more) where you specify when to sell based on era, friendship status and victory progress. Please put some number into the 3 parametres (though I know it ain't easy to put numbers into victory progress).

And another easier question:
2) Can anyone agree with me that selling your last resources as long as you don't get a negative hapiness is better than saving up for a Golden Age? Only question is how much your empire will expand during the next 25 turns before you have the resources back and your rises.

Thank you for any contribution to this thread.

 

[Ninakoru]

- I sell embassy to everyone. On civil service I sell open borders to near anyone.

Reasons to not sell OB:

- Your army is far from the civ, and he is has terrain access yours.
- He has another religion and he is spreading it over his own cities.

On resources:

- Generally speaking you want to avoid early golden ages, they are much more beneficial on turns 100-150+ (depending on difficulty).
- You want to be always happy to continue growth. There are expections but on normal basis this is a must.
- You have to take into account a new resource that is planned to be added to the empire in the nexts turns.
- Strategic also can be sold. You can make ir with a few horses and iron, the rest should be sold to distant neighbors.

On civ dealers:

- First priority is selling resources that will be pillaged by barbs or an attacking civ.
- You will prioritize on neighbours that you KNOW they will attack in few turns. This happen a lot in higher difficulties.
- You will want to get as much as possible from your resources.
- You will not want to trade neigbors if possible. They are anyways more likely to be more angered because they usually covet lands you own.
- You will want to trade first to those on the lower part of the scoreboard.

 

[Yngve]

I sell a lot of mine resources, that way I have money to buy settler, worker or military, or could even use the money to keep a city state ally if I allready did some quest for that city state or I got a quest I am about to finish.

The happiness can be troublesome in the start but my way of avoiding getting unhappy and probably a few more is:

1. Settling or attacking a city where there are plenty of luxuries (you can even settle on top of lux for instant happiness an extra city gives initially 4 unhappiness and a lux gives 4 happiness).
2. Finish city state quests like hunting barbarian settlements for their lux and added bonuses.
3. Also some start with Tradition policies that give more happiness in the start.

 

[kirbdog]

And another easier question:
2) Can anyone agree with me that selling your last resources as long as you don't get a negative hapiness is better than saving up for a Golden Age?

Yes, so long as you are getting at least one golden age from happiness during the game.

 

[Novalia]

Taking money from the AI is a good way to keep them in check. He buys one less unit. Or say Austria... I always prioritize selling to them. To keep their gold below diplomatic marriage levels. Or say Japan.. I know he's gonna attack me at some point so I'm effectively maximizing my yield from any resources I sell to him because I'll just get it back sooner to sell to someone else... While also keeping his military expenditures in check.

But to answer one of your questions always sell your excess resources. Even if you have to accept a crappy deal. It isn't helping you any just sitting there.

The best point made was by Nin... Avoid early golden ages. A golden age when your making 20 gpt is crap compared to later in the game when you're making much more.

 

[Rpger29]

I'm with all the people suggesting to always sell excess resources. Keep in mind that the AI doesn't really benefit from the extra happiness, since they are already cheating like mad in that category. So really you're the only one benefiting from the sale, aside from the small chance of a "we love the king day" in one of their cities.

 

[Jelster]

What level/time do you play ?

Usually, in a standard game up to King, you only get a max of 240, sometimes 215 gold.

I always attempt to sell surplus lux's at full price, when I meet a new civ, or when it asks to trade embassies. I sometimes trade a lux for a lux if I have happiness problems and I have an abbundance of one particular item.

Sometimes selling to a rival is good because it removes cash from their bank, slowing down their production and/or development.

 

[PimpmyCiv]

When selling your resources there are 2 factors - time (turns) and gold.

Since the 2nd luxury resource (ie. 2nd fur or silver etc) offers you no net benifit from sitting there so you have to decide whether its worth waiting for a better deal or not. If you are disliked by all or most of your opponents (or the ones with all the gold anyways) it probably won't increase in value. If you are held in high diplomatic regard and your opponents will have cash it probably is.

Much like if one is selling a house, sitting on it to for 6 months to get 300k rather than 290k on a 1k mortgage only nets 4k extra, plus the opportunity cost of using that capital 6 months earlier. It can be more benificial to take less now, rather than more later.

As a general rule, aside for strategic reasons, I sell my resources and other assets (open borders etc) for whatever I can get ASAP as long as its reasonably close to max value I can expect. Less gold early goes alot further (towards producing hammers, food, science, military might) than more gold later.

Generally speaking you want to avoid early golden ages, they are much more beneficial on turns 100-150+ (depending on difficulty).

I've read this many times, but I don't fully understand why. I get that more tiles in a golden age = more gross benifit from a golden age.

But the net benifit of an earlier golden age can compound through the game.

So lets pretend I can get a Golden Age now (and build a longhouse 5 turns earlier + early gold) or wait. With that earlier built long house I can build a CB 5 turns earlier + save a turn from extra hammers from the longhouse for a CB 6 turns earlier. With that CB my army is ready to take Paris so now I take Paris 6 turns earlier. A puppeted Paris offers, say, 8 gold + 8 hammers + 8 beakers 6 turns longer than I had waited on the golden age. This is an additional for 48 gold + 48 hammers + 48 beakers on top of the benifit from the early golden age. Those lead to an earlier science advancement, marketplace, and maybe luxury to sell and turn into another unit or building etc.... all which lead to more additional early gold or hammers or beakers etc and so on and so on as the game progresses.

(All that + the more likely opportunity for an additional golden age later in the game).

Not that I think its that easy to predict and calculate (its just an example), or that the statement is wrong per se (there is value in timing to build/buy specific buildings or units etc) but I generally find all gold + hammers + beakers etc are worth more early rather than later, specifically because they compound as the game goes on. Waiting on a golden age comes with an opportunity cost of what could have been done with the additional hammers and gold.

 

[Ninakoru]

I've read this many times, but I don't fully understand why. I get that more tiles in a golden age = more gross benifit from a golden age.

Is it true that an early boost will help the same if not more than a late boost and is relative to your size, not the absoulte benefit, the issue is that in early stages you are more worried about connecting resources, fighting barbs, scouting and early conquest, cities usually don't have many improved tiles and your culture is pretty low, as you usually don't have nothing other than monument, not to mention infrastructure is pretty much non-existent. And the most important thing: there's no trading posts.

Also because each new golden age based on happiness will cost quite more, and you can get much more benefit from 240 gold than from +4 excess happiness on early stages, because buying settlers and hard buying key infrastructure early will close the gap between you and the cheaters. Getting yours cities up and running ASAP is key in higher difficulties.

 

[PimpmyCiv]

in early stages you are more worried about connecting resources, fighting barbs, scouting and early conquest,

infrastructure is pretty much non-existent

Getting yours cities up and running ASAP is key in higher difficulties

But thats kind of the point. Early(er) golden ages all help achieve or improve those things. Thats why I don't see the purpose in avoiding it unless there is certain short term circumstances that will significantly improve the golden age

Also because each new golden age based on happiness will cost quite more, and you can get much more benefit from 240 gold than from +4 excess happiness on early stages

I'm don't mean to disagree with that. I think its true, atleast very early in the game. Like I said, gold now (even less gold) > gold later

This was specifically to the idea of waiting on or avoiding Golden Ages. (and I don't mean to direct it specifically at your comment, just having read numerous times that waiting on a golden age for turn X is better than having a golden age earlier. Which in fairness probably should have been raised by me at the time rather than in regards to this specific circumstance )

 

[Sporally]

- Strategic also can be sold. You can make ir with a few horses and iron, the rest should be sold to distant neighbors.

I have tried a tactic now and then, but I'm not really sure if it works. However, it should work as I have no argument why it wouldn't.

You could sell strategic resources to a neighbour that might attack you. In case you're the only source to for instance horses, he will loose the horses when he attacks. This will make him fight worse of course. In case he has another source for horses he would have had that anyway, and he's just buying your horses as extras in a civilization that is already covered with the horses business.

Yes, so long as you are getting at least one golden age from happiness during the game.

You do you want at very least one golden age during your game? Does it matter that much whether you had none of simply just one golden age.

I'm with all the people suggesting to always sell excess resources. Keep in mind that the AI doesn't really benefit from the extra happiness, since they are already cheating like mad in that category. So really you're the only one benefiting from the sale, aside from the small chance of a "we love the king day" in one of their cities.

Yeah here's what I have been thinking about. How does the AI actually "cheat"? I mean, isn't it just the player who gets less hapiness to start of with? So in case you're in a heads up with one other civilization and you two have removed basically all other civs in the game, do I still sell it to him even though we'll be getting into a war sooner or later and he gives me barely anything for my goods?

What level/time do you play ?

What do you mean by time? I play on emporer, and my question covers all the ages. Yes, in case I'm in need of hapiness to begin with I usally trade it directly with another resource. I'm usally in need of hapiness. Later in the game because I'm taking cities as converts them into puppits - rarely annexing.

 

[comatosedragon]

What do you mean by time? I play on emporer, and my question covers all the ages. Yes, in case I'm in need of hapiness to begin with I usally trade it directly with another resource. I'm usally in need of hapiness. Later in the game because I'm taking cities as converts them into puppits - rarely annexing.

I think he means "game speed", because your numbers are not from a "normal" game. Is it epic, or marathon?

 

[kirbdog]

You do you want at very least one golden age during your game? Does it matter that much whether you had none of simply just one golden age.

I'm not sure what you mean by "that much," but it does matter.

That's because you are always going to be part of the way up to filling 500 happy over the ~200 or more turns of a non-domination victory. Not going all the way to 500 would not be a good use of resources. (It's not even very likely to happen, for whatever that's worth, if you are avoiding negative happiness.)

For a dom victory, of course, it might not matter; those can be over much sooner.

 

[The Pilgrim]

These numbers don't match any speed. It's 240 (full price) for standard, 360 for epic and 720 for marathon. If AI is less friendly it goes down to 209 (x1/x1.5/x3). The lowest price is 80 IIRC.

 

[Sporally]

I'm not sure what you mean by "that much," but it does matter.

That's because you are always going to be part of the way up to filling 500 happy over the ~200 or more turns of a non-domination victory. Not going all the way to 500 would not be a good use of resources. (It's not even very likely to happen, for whatever that's worth, if you are avoiding negative happiness.)

For a dom victory, of course, it might not matter; those can be over much sooner.

I see your points, but I don't plan the expansion of my empire on how close I am to a golden age. Even when I don't play a domination game I always conquer and rarely stop before I know and can reach my goal as the winner. For this reason I choose to expand at the expense oh golden ages. After my first couple of conquests I find it hard to gain more golden age points than I lose for the rest of the game.

These numbers don't match any speed. It's 240 (full price) for standard, 360 for epic and 720 for marathon. If AI is less friendly it goes down to 209 (x1/x1.5/x3). The lowest price is 80 IIRC.

Standard game. Yeah OK, just couldn't remember asi not long ago played on quick. But now I always play on standard and get at most 240 I think.