conquer_dude
Imperial Slave
Nah I see what your saying.... Nah I would keep it the way you have it.
Sengoku-Deluxe: preview and discussion thread
- Thread starter Storm Grunt
- Start date
Storm Grunt
Beware My Army
I was gonna say call the first guy a Genin, assuming you used a spearman-type graphic, because of this bit of text I found:Storm Grunt said:
"Chances are the spear has been used in Japan since the first people colonized the land, but finding information relating to the use of the spear in ancient times is extremely hard. One of the earliest references to spear wielding soldiers is in 673. These soldiers were called genin, [warrior attendants]. These conscripted soldiers accompanied mounted warriors and acted as grooms, carried equipment, and collected severed heads [trophies of battle]. While chronicles of these early periods mainly focus on the mounted warriors there is evidence that the genin would fight especially if the mounted warrior they served was in danger. Since many were not professional soldiers it is very likely they used spears and other long-range pole weapons." (http://www.geocities.com/yachigusaryu/yari.htm) However:
I don't know if this was happening in the first era of the scenario or not, but chances are you can forget what I said about Ashigaru! As I hinted at earlier, you'd best defer to everybody else on the thread, as I'm no scholar of the Orient.Ogedei_the_Mad said:
Oh, I should have mentioned earlier that I don't really mind the upgradeable damiyo unit thing, and will be mildly sad that it won't be a part of your deluxe scenario. Oh well.
Storm Grunt
Beware My Army
Mithadan said:
I think you misread something in the posts. I am still using the upgradeable damiyo.I just want the AI to use it in battle as a warlord should lead his troops into battle.With king units the AI leaves them in the capital city at all times. I'm playing with the settings, stats and flagged abilities to find a balance right now. ATM the AI is using them to aggressive in the first ERA and half the clans get wiped out before the early sengoku era.....a little more tweaking and it should be fine,but the ability to upgrade will still be in place.
Ogedei_the_Mad
Caffeinated Khagan
Mithadan said:
The scenario supposedly starts at the end of the Onin War. By this time, Daimyo would already have had armies of conscripted Ashigaru. Ashigaru were employed in the Onin War, but had a reputation for having horrible discipline (they did not hesitate to loot and pillage
).Early Ashigaru were mostly armed with spears although some carried swords. Later Ashigaru were armed with arquebuses once Portuguese guns showed up in Japan.
One of the main things to change is to find a way to make the PC´s daimyo to go out and fight themselves, because, in the first era, if you go a-viking with your daimyo and 1-2 horsemen/bushi, you can wipe outall your neighbours!
When playing with the Oda I took Nobunaga out in the first turn, so I beat up the Miyoshi, Saito and Matsunaga in the first 20 turns, the only city remaining to the Matsunaga was Osaka and with the territorial expansion that accompanied it, I developed my techs enough to be able to conquer the Tokugawa, Imagawa and Urakami
that proves that taking out your daimyo is very important.
When playing with the Oda I took Nobunaga out in the first turn, so I beat up the Miyoshi, Saito and Matsunaga in the first 20 turns, the only city remaining to the Matsunaga was Osaka and with the territorial expansion that accompanied it, I developed my techs enough to be able to conquer the Tokugawa, Imagawa and Urakami
that proves that taking out your daimyo is very important.
Storm Grunt
Beware My Army
Takhisis- Like I've been saying in my posts I'm working on balancing that aspect of the daimyo's out. With all the changes I am making to stats and settings that should come out fine.
I really need to know how you guys feel about the Mongols being the barbarian's. The way I'm looking at it is this: The Mongols did try to invade twice in 1274(?) and 1281(?) though not very successful at all, and since the barbarians are usually wiped out before the end of the first era anyway I thought they could fill this roll nicely.(or is this too much of a stretch of historical accuracy? ) I'm thinking of the vanilla Mongol UU as the basic barbarian, Kinboats Mongol horde as the advanced barb and aaglo's Kublai-khan ship as the barb sea unit. Let me know your feelings on this so I know if i can add the units.
I really need to know how you guys feel about the Mongols being the barbarian's. The way I'm looking at it is this: The Mongols did try to invade twice in 1274(?) and 1281(?) though not very successful at all, and since the barbarians are usually wiped out before the end of the first era anyway I thought they could fill this roll nicely.(or is this too much of a stretch of historical accuracy? ) I'm thinking of the vanilla Mongol UU as the basic barbarian, Kinboats Mongol horde as the advanced barb and aaglo's Kublai-khan ship as the barb sea unit. Let me know your feelings on this so I know if i can add the units.
Ogedei_the_Mad
Caffeinated Khagan
The Sengoku Period was hundreds of years after the Mongol invasion and by the time of the Onin War (which the scenario is supposed to start around), the Mongols were pretty much landlocked so having the Mongols appear in Japan would be very odd. The Ainu weren't all over Japan at this time either, which also makes the Firaxis scenario really strange. 
Barbarians can simply be given the generic term of "Peasant Rebels" or "Bandits" or something of that sort. Rebellion and banditry was rampant in this period of time since there was no strong central authority and it was pretty much "every man for himself."
The Ainu weren't all over Japan at this time either, which also makes the Firaxis scenario really strange. Barbarians can simply be given the generic term of "Peasant Rebels" or "Bandits" or something of that sort. Rebellion and banditry was rampant in this period of time since there was no strong central authority and it was pretty much "every man for himself."
Storm Grunt
Beware My Army
Since the first Era in the scenario is titled "Pre-Sengoku Daimyo" this is a pretty broad statement and to make the Mongols fit I planed to start the date at 1270 and adjust the units of time settings so that by the time the player hits the second era which is Early Sengoku Daimyo the date would be in the late 1400's.
I can do the rebels and bandits idea with some of the extra units I have for this scenario If you still don't think this time line change works or if you guys would just prefer it that way anyway
I can do the rebels and bandits idea with some of the extra units I have for this scenario If you still don't think this time line change works or if you guys would just prefer it that way anyway
7ronin
海軍少佐
At the time of the Onin War (1467-1477), I believe that the Ainu in Hokkaido had yet to be fully subjugated by the Shogunate.
The Sengoku era runs from 1467 to 1602.
The Sengoku era runs from 1467 to 1602.
The scenario's not set in Hokkaido, though, is it? It's probably safest to use the bandit idea for barbarians.
Yeah, I guess I did misread the bit about the daimyo in the scenario. Glad it's going to be tweaked. And I think I finally understand what's going on with the ashigaru. Thanks!
Yeah, I guess I did misread the bit about the daimyo in the scenario. Glad it's going to be tweaked. And I think I finally understand what's going on with the ashigaru. Thanks!
Storm Grunt
Beware My Army
OK, hows this line up for the barbarians then:
Basic Barbarian: Peasant Rebel
Advanced Barbarian: Bandit
Barbarian sea unit: Pirates (Wako)
Basic Barbarian: Peasant Rebel
Advanced Barbarian: Bandit
Barbarian sea unit: Pirates (Wako)
conquer_dude
Imperial Slave
Heh. I like the barbarians, except maybe a little more raddy clothes. Now the advanced barbarian. 
Now we're talkin' bandits! The ship is nice too.
Now we're talkin' bandits! The ship is nice too.
Storm Grunt
Beware My Army
OK the pirates will be renamed wako.
I think that the peasant barb's clothing is suitable compared to the fancier outfits of the other units.
I had to change the ship after looking through the flc's and seeing it had only cannon fire for attack.
EDIT:The preview has been updated to reflect the ship change.
I think that the peasant barb's clothing is suitable compared to the fancier outfits of the other units.
I had to change the ship after looking through the flc's and seeing it had only cannon fire for attack.
EDIT:The preview has been updated to reflect the ship change.
Storm Grunt
Beware My Army
I made a new military advisor for the scenario.I plan on doing all new advisors.
here's a preview.
the terrain buildings final changes. I did the mine and the barb camp. The rest is by Niessuh
And the city graphics I added. These are by: Niessuh
here's a preview.
the terrain buildings final changes. I did the mine and the barb camp. The rest is by Niessuh
And the city graphics I added. These are by: Niessuh
Storm Grunt
Beware My Army
Yea you can copy those, just remember to change them to pcx.
Ogedei_the_Mad
Caffeinated Khagan
Another resource to add: Silver. This would give a good gold bonus and could perhaps allow the construction of a "Chinese Trade Mission" (+50% luxuries since Japanese sold silver in exchange for Chinese luxury goods). It could take the place of the "Fief Establishment" since a "Fief Establishment" providing +50% luxuries in the Firaxis Sengoku scenario is kind of wierd.
By 1540 (still within the timeframe of the Sengoku Period), Japan was one of the three leading producers of silver in the entire world (the other two being Mexico and Peru, which were under Spanish control). 1/3 of the world's silver flowed into China, and the vast majority of that came from Japan.
Ming Dynasty China was heavily dependent on Japanese silver to the point that some scholars argue that when the Tokugawa government restricted silver exports, it was one of the causes of the Ming Dynasty's collapse in 1644 (of course, that's just one theory, but the limitation of silver was a big thing nonetheless).
By 1540 (still within the timeframe of the Sengoku Period), Japan was one of the three leading producers of silver in the entire world (the other two being Mexico and Peru, which were under Spanish control). 1/3 of the world's silver flowed into China, and the vast majority of that came from Japan.
Ming Dynasty China was heavily dependent on Japanese silver to the point that some scholars argue that when the Tokugawa government restricted silver exports, it was one of the causes of the Ming Dynasty's collapse in 1644 (of course, that's just one theory, but the limitation of silver was a big thing nonetheless).
