SGOTM 01 - Fifth Element

[Goodenuf]

I would go with Sailing first; the galleys are critical to scout out that land in the south and to find other civs.

I'd go Sailing, Mathematics, Drama, Alphabet, Metal Casting, Calendar, Machinery, Optics...

Math gives us the chopping bonus. Drama gets theatres, which are happiness and big culture. Optics of course gets us into a better exploring situation.

City by the gems should come first to get that big coin bonus for working them. The canal city is important too for reasons mentioned by Dolphan in #298.

 

[Dolphan]

I'll complete the set tonight people, probably about 6/7 hours time. Currently I'm going to be sticking to Alphabet for my set - and we can just pray we've somehow got there first. Otherwise it may be a tough slog, although hopefully all the AIs are hemmed in on a nice small continent where they're competing for space while way secure our island. Isn't wishful thinking wonderful?

 

[gskur]

Your "wishful thinking" might turn out to be right on the money, considering our consistently-easier-then-it-should-have-been-war with Cathy.

 

[Goodenuf]

Remember Huyan Capac discovered Confucianism a loooong time ago. That means Code of Laws. Alphabet is very likely then as well (although I suppose it's not impossible to get CoL without Alphabet... it usually arrives along the way).

Note that alphabet doesnt do a lot of good unless we actually meet someone... and to do that, we need Sailing.

Just my $0.02 worth. Certainly alpha is important... can't really argue against it (outside of above logic).

 

[Perugia]

Logging in folks.

Well done everyone in getting hegemony over our continent.

I would go with Sailing first; the galleys are critical to scout out that land in the south and to find other civs.

I'd go Sailing, Mathematics, Drama, Alphabet, Metal Casting, Calendar, Machinery, Optics...

I agree with the above plans for research.

Immediate plans for our next settler should be to settle the gems to allow our cities to grow. The canal is not needed until we actually have some galleys that know where they are headed. So the other settler should be placed in the best other position.

 

[Dolphan]

@Perugia #305

Thing is, the canal is by far the best other position anyway. I'll change to sailing then, playing the rest of my turns now.

 

[Dolphan]

OK, I've stopped without even finishing the turn, as our chariots have taken a peek across the water and made contact with Cyrus of Persia! The square directly across is in Persia, as you can see:

I say this makes Alphabet worth more than sailing straight off - Cyrus has one more city than us (we're last on population according to the demographics screen) and his score is only about 50 higher, so he can't be that much ahead on tech. Its worth noting that:

- We have slightly higher power than he does (another war?)
- He doesn't know HC
- He founded Buddhism and has it as state religion.

I've stopped (I know I'm pushing the 48 hours) because we need to discuss how this affects long-term strategy.

EDIT - also, on the happiness line, we will have gems in Moscow in a few turns without building another city.

 

[Merum]

If it's war, then we need sailing and construction would be nice.

We should get alphabet before we go to war, so we can trade him for what we can get before we declare. We might even be able to get sailing.

A religion would be very helpful for happiness' sake. Temples will really help, as will the +1 happiness for state religion in a city. All that's left is taoism and christianity, and it's unlikely we'll get either, so we need to pick one up somehow. It would also be nice if we could boost science with cheap monasteries.

at -13/turn, we can't have both techs on the quick research plan. I'd go for alphabet first, so we can trade while we build military and research sailing.

Beyond that, there's not much to affect how the next few turns would go...

 

[Groin_Apologist]

Yeah - I'd say alphabet is a must now that we've come into contact with Cyrus. Do most of you advocate going to war as soon as we are able, or concentrate more on canvassing our entire home continent with cities so nobody else can get foothold and then building infrastructure?

 

[Merum]

I think we need to get alphabet, and then determine where Cyrus is techwise. Based on that, we can decide when and where we want to go to war with him. A Persian war is at least 20-40 turns in the future, IMO. We just won't have the materiel to do it before then.

 

[Goodenuf]

Certainly meeting Cyrus boosts the need of Alphabet to the forefront. I suppose we havent figured out yet if Cyrus is our "locked in ally"... how would that be indicated anyway?

If we want to attack, we'll need a boatload of galleys (excuse the pun) just to get troops over. Chariots may be of limited use, but swords and axes would be good. First, though is the ability to move a good 10 units over. That's 5 galleys. I would say we're a ways away from a war, so infrastructure should be our focus. Perhaps a galley and a scout or 2 would be beneficial?

 

[Merum]

Depending on whether I get fully packed or not, I may still have time to play a set before I leave.

Please don't skip me unless I say so.

 

[Perugia]

I agree that we need to know the tech situation vs Cyrus and that we should switch research from Sailing back to Alphabet immediately.

We should build a workboat in our coastal city asap and then get OB from Cyrus and use the workboat to scout the Persian coast. #Dolphan how soon could we have a workboat and what is on the queue there?

Thing is, the canal is by far the best other position anyway.

OK let's make it so. This will make it faster for our workboat to reach Persia.

We should also ensure our land forces have explored to the very limit to see if any other land can be seen. For example the chariot in screenie #307 needs to move 1S next turn. Are there any other areas on our continent like this?

#Groin_Apologist 309. I agree we should canvass our continent first but only the decent city sites.

One more thought. If we can set up a trade network with Cyrus then Buddhism will eventually spread to us. To do this we either need sailing or need to build a city near where out chariot is in the screenie #307 such that on border expansion our culture will link with the Persian border across the strait (sailing is not needed for this).

 

[Dolphan]

I've sent units round all the coasts and can't see any more land - there is ice to the N of the silver mountain though so we are up at the top of the map.

Turn 1 460 BC - moved the unnamed axe N of memphis 1W to defend horses. The barb axe attacks him and he kills it, taking no damage. Another barb axe appears W of Thebes, N of moscow.

Turn 2 445 BC - had to move Hsekiu out of Thebes to attack a barb archer threatening workers and Heliopolis. He defeats it but leaves Thebes with unhappiness for a turn. Aaron and apprentice finish a cottage on grassland 2N of Heliopolis. Heliopolis is 2 turns away from growth and a barracks - I left it like that as with its low production it would take 45 turns for a workboat, whereas after growth it can freely work the iron.

Turn 4 415 BC - Heliopolis grows and works iron. 8 turns for a work boat. Barb warrior appears on the canal site, near aaron and apprentice who have been sent to get to the Moscow gems when the borders expand. Running out of cash so research is set to 60% for +2 GPT. Alphabet in 22 turns.

Turn 5 400 BC - Merneith kills the warrior and settles in on the canal site.

Turn 6 385 BC - Moscow borders expand, set Aaron and apprentice to mine the gems.

Turn 7 370 BC - 1st settler sent to canal site with chariot escort.

Turn 8 355 BC - We get the gems. Thebes micromanaged to increase gold, allowing us to break even on 70% science.

Turn 9 340 BC - Elephantine founded, shifting us back to -1 GPT. We have 19 gold. Aaron and apprentice sent from the gem mines to improve elephantine. The Collossus has been built somewhere.

Spoiler Image :

Turn 10 325 BC - Moscow set to work its first cottage, giving us 10 turns to alphabet. This can probably be reduced when cities grow. We have a higher land percentage than Cyrus or HC. Apprentice and Aaron begin a pasture next to Elephantine.

 

[Dolphan]

Groin_Apologist, I think you're up.

 

[Goodenuf]

What is the current playing order? I know I'm up again soon... but I'm not sure if I'm on deck. Lots of people being skipped and/or shuffled due to schedules and such. I believe Groin_Apologist is next, but Merum is also waiting for a shot at it before being away. I want to try and plan some of my evenings for this .

Thx!

 

[Perugia]

Nice move set Dolphan except you didn't let Thebes & Memphis grow when the gems came in. Looks like the research is getting back on track. Do we need any more workers yet?

With the Gems in, Memphis & Thebes have a spare and can be allowed to grow so the next player should turn Avoid Growth off. Thebes needs a library instead of the axe being built there at the moment. Memphis should build a Library when the settler completes next turn. As Elephantine is size 1 its should be building a granary as this will speed its development up to size 5 (Heliopolis can build our boats). Also Moscow should be MM to move a citizen from a cottage to rice to grow in 1. The next citizen can be put back on the cottage.

As Merum is not going to be able to play again until July, I propose he play now if he can before going off (to China AFAIR) as long as Groin_Apologist does not mind.

Otherwise I believe the order is/will be this (please correct me if I missed something).

Groin_Apologist (Up)
Merum (Skip June 5-30) (On Deck)
Perugia
Goodenuf
Doom Train (skip on June 1 - 9)
BrianS
gskur
Dolphan (Resting)

I've moved myself below Merum so he can hopefully not be skipped as requested #312.

 

[Groin_Apologist]

I'm okay with Merum getting in before me - so I'll wait for a bit.

 

[Merum]

I've got the save. Will play in the next 4-5 hours if able, otherwise I'll edit this and ask for the big skipperino.

Here I thought I was next. Thanks to GA and Perugia for swapping with me. Hopefully I'll get the chance for another 10 3.

Spoiler :

Pre-Flight Checks

Turn off avoid growth in Memphis/Thebes
2 chariots and an axeman on automove... going where and why? Cancel these.
Memphis settler due in 1. Seems southbound. City sites, anyone?
Thebes -> Library

Turn 1 310BCE
Memphis builds settler, switches to Library. I'm tempted to set this to granary to get rid of the health problem, but we're still growing slowly (9). May need to avoid again.
Settler heads to gem city. On the hill next to the N gems?
Cyrus doesn't know Huayna, and is not our locked ally. He has the same number of cities we do, and will give us open borders, if we want.
Two workers by Moscow go to prepare the N gem site.

Turn 2 295BCE
Work boat heads to Persia. A second boat started to go round the other side.
Moving stuff around for fogbusting.
Worker to Heliopolis to cottage a grassland for our imminent citizen.

Turn 3 280BCE
Elephantine workers move to mine copper.
Still fogbusting. One more chariot to go to the SE of Moscow should make us fog-free.

We haven't had a chance to discuss fully the city placement for this settler, and I don't want to screw it up, so I'm going to stop here. Perugia can decide what to do with the extra turnage.

Thanks for the chance to play a few turns, at least, before I jet off. I'll see you all in a couple of days.

The save

 

[Perugia]

@Merum - glad you got some play in, enjoy your trip!
@Groin_Apologist - you are up.

Thoughts...
Although Memphis has health problems, happiness will be the limit to city productivity for the forseeable future. It doesn't need to grow much faster unless we want to pop rush. If so we should build a granary and then let it grow to 3+ unhappy citizens before rushing - you get the same amount of unhappiness for however many citizens are whipped so it is better to whip in multiples.

If we don't go for pop rushing then we can solve health in the short term by seafood. I personally think we need the Library at Memphis soonest especially as 1) it is one of our our largest cities & 2) has loads of cottaged FPs. The fish at Elephatine can be brought in by one of our workboats after it returns from Persia to solve the Memphis health allowing it to work more of hammer tiles as necessary.

BTW once we have alphabet and are building libraries in our sci cities (Thebes & Memphis) we should switch to 0% science, MM for hammers in the sci cities and build up some gold reserves. This will allow us to switch to 100% science and commerce tiles once the libraries complete. One proviso, we should max science as at present until alphabet comes in as the greatest science need it to trade with Persia.

@GA Get the save & look at it but please wait for team agreement on city location before playing. I'll have a look at the save tonight (about 12 hours from this posting).

Spoiler Turn Order :

Groin_Apologist (Up)
Perugia (On Deck)
Goodenuf
Doom Train (skip on June 1 - 9)
BrianS
gskur
Dolphan
Merum (Resting, Skip June 5-30)