SGOTM 01 - Fifth Element
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
Merum
Permanent Jet Lag
Great job, gskur. Finally, the long war is over.
Personally, I would have attacked Moscow long ago (as many as 30 turns ago!), but I might have gotten pasted too. I don't do a lot of number crunching on combat odds, I just throw the troops into the breach and damn the torpedoes.
Echoing Dolphan's question: Are we being too risk-averse because we're playing a team competition game? Who would have played the war out differently?
Dolphan, do you want another shot at it or do you prefer to wait? I'd love to get another set in before I leave (Monday) for China, but I don't want it to come at the expense of another player. Here are the options:
Dolphan play now, resume order as normal.
Groin_Apologist play now, Dolphan next
Groin_Apologist now, Me next, then Dolphan.
I don't want you to miss out on a set of turns, Dolphan. Let me know.
Personally, I would have attacked Moscow long ago (as many as 30 turns ago!), but I might have gotten pasted too. I don't do a lot of number crunching on combat odds, I just throw the troops into the breach and damn the torpedoes.
Echoing Dolphan's question: Are we being too risk-averse because we're playing a team competition game? Who would have played the war out differently?
Dolphan, do you want another shot at it or do you prefer to wait? I'd love to get another set in before I leave (Monday) for China, but I don't want it to come at the expense of another player. Here are the options:
Dolphan play now, resume order as normal.
Groin_Apologist play now, Dolphan next
Groin_Apologist now, Me next, then Dolphan.
I don't want you to miss out on a set of turns, Dolphan. Let me know.
Yes, it was a gross overkill in the end. But! But can you always count on AI to be THAT stupid? It threw away 2 archers and would not whip a 7th before we attacked. That's the very depth of stupidity! We would have been on our asses easily. Then, if we did not block all the resourses, she would have built defeders, but to block the resourses we needed troops, but by building troops... and so on.
If you ever try to go back and attack Cathy when we had, what was it?, 12 chariots against 5 archers--you will be likely to lose... Look up Perugia #241.
I ran some calcs just to see what happened. It shows that after combating our swords the defending archers should have retained about 40-50% of stength on average, or like 1.2-1.5. Instead, they had only 0.3 and 1.0! It's not beyond possible, but we have been suspiciously lucky with our war effort in this game so far. Go figure...
I think we take less risks because none wants to screw it up for the rest of the team. And because of the difference in our styles of playing this game "in a risky fashion" we end up with a safer "common denominator."
BTW, I never plan nearly in as much detail, but then I do not have to explain and justify my "natural" moves. Same is true for every one of us, I am sure.
It's not too bad, anyways. We will nicely recover from the slump.
If you ever try to go back and attack Cathy when we had, what was it?, 12 chariots against 5 archers--you will be likely to lose... Look up Perugia #241.
I ran some calcs just to see what happened. It shows that after combating our swords the defending archers should have retained about 40-50% of stength on average, or like 1.2-1.5. Instead, they had only 0.3 and 1.0! It's not beyond possible, but we have been suspiciously lucky with our war effort in this game so far. Go figure...
I think we take less risks because none wants to screw it up for the rest of the team. And because of the difference in our styles of playing this game "in a risky fashion" we end up with a safer "common denominator."
BTW, I never plan nearly in as much detail, but then I do not have to explain and justify my "natural" moves. Same is true for every one of us, I am sure.
It's not too bad, anyways. We will nicely recover from the slump.
Merum
Permanent Jet Lag
It appears that cultural expansion has revealed what was behind those mountains we were all so curious about... nothing. 
Thanks for the tease, Gyathaar.
To the next player: I recommend moving a chariot from moscow down to the cows SW of the city. We may be able to see across to the other coast from there, or hail a galley.
Looking through the graphs tells me we were ahead of Huayna in power until we pared back the military.
Thanks for the tease, Gyathaar.
To the next player: I recommend moving a chariot from moscow down to the cows SW of the city. We may be able to see across to the other coast from there, or hail a galley.
Looking through the graphs tells me we were ahead of Huayna in power until we pared back the military.
Merum
Permanent Jet Lag
alt-s will let you place a sign.
It looks like we have some time now to grow our island, but I fear our main limiting factor is happiness. Since we are unlikely to have another civilizations religion infect us, should we try for our own religion? What's still available? Should we research towards construction and build colliseums?
Its working, I've played the first couple of turns. A few questions - do we really want two settlers? I can certainly see one good city site - here:
Do we want another one around here:
I can't help thinking Memphis would be better off building a library. Yes, we'll get unhappiness when it grows, but all that'll do is stagnate it. On research, I've gone for alphabet. Hopefully when we meet the AI they won't have it and we can catch up a bit through tech trading. Or is that wishful thinking, would people rather go straight for galleys and start exploring that tantalising bit of land?
Spoiler :
Do we want another one around here:
Spoiler :
I can't help thinking Memphis would be better off building a library. Yes, we'll get unhappiness when it grows, but all that'll do is stagnate it. On research, I've gone for alphabet. Hopefully when we meet the AI they won't have it and we can catch up a bit through tech trading. Or is that wishful thinking, would people rather go straight for galleys and start exploring that tantalising bit of land?
..If we still want that “straddling” city on the isthmus, on the desert tile north of cows, then--to get both Gems (1H2F6C each!)--the other city we should place either (a) on Horses 3xNW of Mos or (b) 3N of Mos (sugar tiles will be 4F1C each), and this should be settled first: we need money! Otherwise, to get those Gems, it is either (c) 1S of cows (where St. Pete was), (d) 1xSW of cows. And the next city wherever. So, I guess, I want those two settlers finished first.
..We’ve completely ignored the religious path of research and it will take time to catch up researching. Why do it? We might be able to trade for those few early knowledge areas later on, or research quickly right then. We do not get anything form them now; even the wonders have been built elsewhere already. I’d go this way:
..Alphabet, Drama, Mathematics, Sailing, Metal Casting, Calendar, Machinery, Optics…
..We’ve completely ignored the religious path of research and it will take time to catch up researching. Why do it? We might be able to trade for those few early knowledge areas later on, or research quickly right then. We do not get anything form them now; even the wonders have been built elsewhere already. I’d go this way:
..Alphabet, Drama, Mathematics, Sailing, Metal Casting, Calendar, Machinery, Optics…
Merum
Permanent Jet Lag
I'd go for alphabet and then sailing... alphabet isn't going to do us any good if there's nobody to trade it to.
also, we need more luxuries. We may find them on the next land mass over from us, but we'll need galleys to get there. If there's something promising, we need to put a settler over there ASAP before somebody else gets to it. The two settlers building are appropriate, IMO.
Having a canal city would be nice, but it's certainly not up on my priority list... We need citizens on the gems, because they'll make us good coinage.
also, we need more luxuries. We may find them on the next land mass over from us, but we'll need galleys to get there. If there's something promising, we need to put a settler over there ASAP before somebody else gets to it. The two settlers building are appropriate, IMO.
Having a canal city would be nice, but it's certainly not up on my priority list... We need citizens on the gems, because they'll make us good coinage.
@Merum #291
, and then what? We'd need Calendar for one more from Sugar, but you'd need Math first, etc.
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@Dolphan #292
Yes, it will. But the Gem tiles give 2F (grassland both) so it will be easy to grow into using them.
Have you decided on city spots?
We need Drama to build Theaters to take care of unhappiness long-term. Gems will give us just +1
, and then what? We'd need Calendar for one more from Sugar, but you'd need Math first, etc.----------------------------------------
@Dolphan #292
Yes, it will. But the Gem tiles give 2F (grassland both) so it will be easy to grow into using them.
Have you decided on city spots?
Groin_Apologist
Big Ten Apologist
Nice work on eliminating Russia - we now have Manifest Destiny for our continent!
I agree that we should kick out the two settlers and build the canal city (we need a galley badly) and another city to encorporate the gems into the empire. After that, I would assume we need to work on court houses or market-places to get us financially solvent again?
EDIT - I don't see many others suggesting this - is it better to work on happiness (drama) before wealth?
Would it be helpful to disband some of our military to decrease its financial burden. (By the time we meet anyone else, I'm sure we would need to upgrade anyway.)
(Am I up next?)
I agree that we should kick out the two settlers and build the canal city (we need a galley badly) and another city to encorporate the gems into the empire. After that, I would assume we need to work on court houses or market-places to get us financially solvent again?
EDIT - I don't see many others suggesting this - is it better to work on happiness (drama) before wealth?
Would it be helpful to disband some of our military to decrease its financial burden. (By the time we meet anyone else, I'm sure we would need to upgrade anyway.)
(Am I up next?)
Merum
Permanent Jet Lag
We don't need the canal city to build galleys, we already have a coastal city for that. The canal can wait, and IMO should be the last priority, since that location is very unproductive.
Theatres also only give 1 happiness. Sailing gets us galleys. IMO, that's priority. If we don't meet people to trade with, we have absolutely no chance of keeping up in tech. Also, if we don't get onto that other land mass, we'll have to take it by force. That will be much harder.
This is my line of thinking.
@AlanH. Unaware. Sorry.
Theatres also only give 1 happiness. Sailing gets us galleys. IMO, that's priority. If we don't meet people to trade with, we have absolutely no chance of keeping up in tech. Also, if we don't get onto that other land mass, we'll have to take it by force. That will be much harder.
This is my line of thinking.
@AlanH. Unaware. Sorry.
Groin_Apologist
Big Ten Apologist
Ah - I just realized we kept that russian city south of thebes. Then I concur that obtaining gems and a galley would be high on the priority list. But research wise, (after sailing) should we be heading toward code of laws or market-place, then, or else beeline towards optics?
@Merum #296
The canal location is far from unproductive - it has copper, clams, and cows straight off, plus a decent mix of grassland and plains hills. Its the best available city site in general (as in not including our current need for cash, which is why the gems site comes first despite the jungle). Not my decision as the 2nd settler will finish after my turns, but I think thats where it should go (I'm sending the first to get the gems, as people have said.
I'm going to go for alphabet. I highly recommend sailing after that - meeting other civs sooner is more important than boosting happiness, as we're going to hit health limitations anyway, and theatres aren't that great a bonus - we can pick up drama after more essential techs. We're going to have to think about the approach to CoL at some point as well, courthouses will be essential if we want to expand further.
The canal location is far from unproductive - it has copper, clams, and cows straight off, plus a decent mix of grassland and plains hills. Its the best available city site in general (as in not including our current need for cash, which is why the gems site comes first despite the jungle). Not my decision as the 2nd settler will finish after my turns, but I think thats where it should go (I'm sending the first to get the gems, as people have said.
I'm going to go for alphabet. I highly recommend sailing after that - meeting other civs sooner is more important than boosting happiness, as we're going to hit health limitations anyway, and theatres aren't that great a bonus - we can pick up drama after more essential techs. We're going to have to think about the approach to CoL at some point as well, courthouses will be essential if we want to expand further.
@Groin Apologist #297
No, we razed it (about 15-18 turns back): there are ruins of that one W of our city.
@Dolphan #298
I advocate the following research sequence:
..Alphabet, Drama, Mathematics, Sailing... (my post#290).
Researching sailing at this point will give us very little: we cannot expand too far and wide without, say, corthouses or lots of gold production, and we have nothing of science to trade in for missing techs.
Drama gets us growth via happiness. Math gets us growth via aquaducts and 50% forest chop bonus.
No, we razed it (about 15-18 turns back): there are ruins of that one W of our city.
@Dolphan #298
I advocate the following research sequence:
..Alphabet, Drama, Mathematics, Sailing... (my post#290).
Researching sailing at this point will give us very little: we cannot expand too far and wide without, say, corthouses or lots of gold production, and we have nothing of science to trade in for missing techs.
Drama gets us growth via happiness. Math gets us growth via aquaducts and 50% forest chop bonus.
@Gskur #299
I read your previous post. Sailing is important because we need information on the other civs as fast as possible to formulate our plans, and with alphabet its possible we can do some trading - they won't necessarily have it yet, and if they do we can grab techs they don't have and trade them off to keep up, the usual thing. Then drama, then maths. Galleys are more important than theatres at the moment.
I read your previous post. Sailing is important because we need information on the other civs as fast as possible to formulate our plans, and with alphabet its possible we can do some trading - they won't necessarily have it yet, and if they do we can grab techs they don't have and trade them off to keep up, the usual thing. Then drama, then maths. Galleys are more important than theatres at the moment.
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