radiopill
Tyrant
I send this PM to the missing players... I hope they see it, and come soon...
SGOTM 01 - Memphis Blues
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
BSouder
Warlord
Hey, I'm not missing. I was the 3rd reply in the thread. 
Anyway my opinion is to settle the hill unless moving there reveals some REALLY crappy land. Although, even if the hidden squares behind the hills are just peaks, it will still be a nice city.
My vote would be to go for AH first. That's the only resource we know of, so we might as well get it hooked up. It also gives us our UU if it reveals close horses.
On more mundane topics, this thing starts in 2 days and I think we should really set an initial order and maybe decide a turn length. Anyone want to go first?
Anyway my opinion is to settle the hill unless moving there reveals some REALLY crappy land. Although, even if the hidden squares behind the hills are just peaks, it will still be a nice city.
My vote would be to go for AH first. That's the only resource we know of, so we might as well get it hooked up. It also gives us our UU if it reveals close horses.
On more mundane topics, this thing starts in 2 days and I think we should really set an initial order and maybe decide a turn length. Anyone want to go first?
radiopill
Tyrant
Sorry about that...
My only request is, I don't want to be the first... and I think the first player should go for a small turnset (20 turns max), so we can have a better overview of our land, and prepare a better tech path.
Frederiksberg
Deity
I was hoping that someone who knows the mechanics of SGOTM would volunteer and go first. I wouldn't mind being second though...
Regarding turn length, 20 turns is probably fine in the beginning but later in the game each turn takes much longer time, so we should decrease the number gradually as the game progresses.
BSouder
Warlord
Have any of us ever played a succession game? I know I haven't.
20 turns to start sounds good, we can always adjust as we go.
Our valiant captain is the only one to admit every playing a SG before. Maybe we should nominate him to play first.
How about this for an initial roser:
Hyfrydle
Frederiksberg
Mad Professor
radiopill
BSouder
Drogear
KingdomBrunel
Syntherio
That is assuming the last 3 get the PMs and join in. Even if all of them don't we have a guaranteed 5 players so should be fine.
In general I think our short-term goals for the first few moves should be:
A. Find / hook up horses if possible
B. Find the Incans (high priority!)
C. Find our ally if possible (low priority until we can trade)
D. Prepare some basic defenses (as Frederiksberg pointed out if Inca is close, we could get hit soon). This means archery (bad idea against Inca) or axes if horses aren't handy.
E. Maybe found a religion? (I NEVER found anything before confucianism, but part of my goal in playing this is to learn other tactics.)
20 turns to start sounds good, we can always adjust as we go.
Our valiant captain is the only one to admit every playing a SG before. Maybe we should nominate him to play first.
How about this for an initial roser:
Hyfrydle
Frederiksberg
Mad Professor
radiopill
BSouder
Drogear
KingdomBrunel
Syntherio
That is assuming the last 3 get the PMs and join in. Even if all of them don't we have a guaranteed 5 players so should be fine.
In general I think our short-term goals for the first few moves should be:
A. Find / hook up horses if possible
B. Find the Incans (high priority!)
C. Find our ally if possible (low priority until we can trade)
D. Prepare some basic defenses (as Frederiksberg pointed out if Inca is close, we could get hit soon). This means archery (bad idea against Inca) or axes if horses aren't handy.
E. Maybe found a religion? (I NEVER found anything before confucianism, but part of my goal in playing this is to learn other tactics.)
radiopill
Tyrant
I'm involved in one, so I knew the etiquette for SG, but I feared that my opening skill completely kill us in Monarch (I'm more a Prince player but I'm starting playing in Monarch
)...OK for me, sounds good.
How long do we wait for the last 3 players..?
Syntherio
Prince
Sorry, I was ill.
My thoughts on...
...Defense: archers are insufficient. We need War Chariots and Axemen against the Incans
...Religion: We start with agriculture and wheel (?!), so it would be hard to get one of the three starting-religions. Lets go for confucianism, we need the courthouse and the caste system anyway soon.
...turnlimit: 20 turns in the beginning and 10 turns later should are okay.
...technology: AH must be first tech. It enables the cows and shows us horses.
...war waeriness: In a few testgames, I had no problem with ww. The negative effect seems to be lower, when you are always at war with someone.
...permanent alliance: I never played in an alliance. Has anyone experience with this? We must know, if the victory-conditions are altered. Is the population and the landmass of both civs combined for a domination-win? And how is the voting-behavior of our ally?
...Incas on Monarch: Even if the Icans are close to our capital, we should not attack them before we found our second city. The unit-bonus for the AI on Monarch-level is dangerous. We will need a strong force, maybe swordsmen to crush them. War Elephants can be our war-winner. There will be a staedy stream of units between our two empires: If we are unable to carry the war to his cities, he will bother us with countless attackers...
...the paecefull mate: He could be the optimal partner in an alliance or for a diplomatic victory.
EDIT: My 200th post, hurray
My thoughts on...
...Defense: archers are insufficient. We need War Chariots and Axemen against the Incans
...Religion: We start with agriculture and wheel (?!), so it would be hard to get one of the three starting-religions. Lets go for confucianism, we need the courthouse and the caste system anyway soon.
...turnlimit: 20 turns in the beginning and 10 turns later should are okay.
...technology: AH must be first tech. It enables the cows and shows us horses.
...war waeriness: In a few testgames, I had no problem with ww. The negative effect seems to be lower, when you are always at war with someone.
...permanent alliance: I never played in an alliance. Has anyone experience with this? We must know, if the victory-conditions are altered. Is the population and the landmass of both civs combined for a domination-win? And how is the voting-behavior of our ally?
...Incas on Monarch: Even if the Icans are close to our capital, we should not attack them before we found our second city. The unit-bonus for the AI on Monarch-level is dangerous. We will need a strong force, maybe swordsmen to crush them. War Elephants can be our war-winner. There will be a staedy stream of units between our two empires: If we are unable to carry the war to his cities, he will bother us with countless attackers...
...the paecefull mate: He could be the optimal partner in an alliance or for a diplomatic victory.
EDIT: My 200th post, hurray
KingdomBrunel
Warlord
I'm here too - didn't think things we're kicking off until today. I'll post some more at lunchtime, I'm supposed to be working now.
radiopill
Tyrant
Hi, I'm glad to see you guys.
That's a really good question, I made a little search on the forum but didn't found a lot on PA (Permanent Allaince). But the small information I found, let me think that the victory conditions are unaltered... So a domination is easier, but as we cannot be in PA before Communism or Nationalism, it will be hard to win the SGOTM this way.
For the diplomatic way, I really don't know how our ally will vote, specially if he is himself eligible...
However, founding a PA is pretty hard, and the civ we are at always peace, won't necessarily be our ally. If he dislikes us (because of religion, border tension, war with his friend, etc...), he won't help us much, he only won't attack us... I hope they didn't choose an AI like Izzy or Toku as our always peace civ...
Syntherio said:
That's a really good question, I made a little search on the forum but didn't found a lot on PA (Permanent Allaince). But the small information I found, let me think that the victory conditions are unaltered... So a domination is easier, but as we cannot be in PA before Communism or Nationalism, it will be hard to win the SGOTM this way.
For the diplomatic way, I really don't know how our ally will vote, specially if he is himself eligible...
However, founding a PA is pretty hard, and the civ we are at always peace, won't necessarily be our ally. If he dislikes us (because of religion, border tension, war with his friend, etc...), he won't help us much, he only won't attack us... I hope they didn't choose an AI like Izzy or Toku as our always peace civ...
KingdomBrunel
Warlord
That seems a pretty good summary of what's been posted so far, and it sounds a good plan to me (not that I've played a SGOTM before). Horses for war chariots has to be our number 1 priority doesn't it, and Syntherio's suggestion to hold off an offensive war until we're more powerful has won me over. Founding a religion will be tough, so maybe we could just hope to pick one of those up from a neighbour - it may make sense to share a religion with someone if we're having to handle the Incans early on. Two early wars could be fatal.
Are we going to know who we're at peace with permanently? I've not played with a conidition like this before and I'm assuming that we can find this out other than by trying to declare war on everyone.
In terms of where to settle at the start - I vote SW hill unless it looks awful when we get there. Extra defense, and gets the floodplains out of our FAT cross so we don't pick up as much unhealthiness. I also agree not to chop the trees, at least to start with.
In terms of playing order, I'm going to be on holiday May 20th-28th, and so an early slot will suit me. Don't worry - me going AWOL is not a regular thing - we're just making the most of being able to go on holiday in term time before my eldest starts school in September. If an early slot's not possible, you'll just have to skip me until I'm back.
Looking forward to this over the coming months
Frederiksberg
Deity
Looks like we are getting close to a consensus on the opening strategy! As I see it most of us are in favor of the following:
Where to settle:
SW on the plains hills unless there is only useless land (desserts, mountains) to the east.
What to research:
AH first in order to work the cow square and find horses. If no horses are visible we continue with Mining and BW to find bronze. Otherwise we may continue with Pottery (to get cottages) before going for BW. Mysticism has also been proposed - I think the idea was to go for founding a religion. In my view this is quite a gamble on Monarch level since at least one of our opponents start with Mysticism and thus has a head start. What do you guys think?
What to produce:
Hmm - not much input here. My suggestion would be to either build a worker first or maybe start building something else (warrior?) and then switch to building a worker when our capital grows to size 2. My reasoning behind this, is as follows: We want to maximize the total sum of hammers, food and gold from our city. In the beginning this can be done in only two ways: By growing the population and by improving the tiles in the fat cross. While we are building the worker, the city won't grow. But when the worker is ready, improving the cow square will increase the food with 1 and the hammers with 2 which is more than the increase when adding one extra citizen (working unimproved floodplain gives 3 extra food and 1 extra gold but the extra citizen will consume two of the food units). And even more important, as soon as we have produced the worker we are able to both let the city grow and improve the available tiles with farms and later cottages and mines.
Please comment if I missed something or you have other ideas!
I fully agree with this. And maybe it is better to let them come for us in the beginning and attack them in open land with (hopefully) our War Charriots
. Also it will be important to get intelligence regarding their strength and type of units before any full blown attack is launched. We should also locate their strategic ressources (horses, bronze etc) and unhooking those.
Regarding the rooster I hope our captain will go first. I can be placed whereever it is convenient.
Where to settle:
SW on the plains hills unless there is only useless land (desserts, mountains) to the east.
What to research:
AH first in order to work the cow square and find horses. If no horses are visible we continue with Mining and BW to find bronze. Otherwise we may continue with Pottery (to get cottages) before going for BW. Mysticism has also been proposed - I think the idea was to go for founding a religion. In my view this is quite a gamble on Monarch level since at least one of our opponents start with Mysticism and thus has a head start. What do you guys think?
What to produce:
Hmm - not much input here. My suggestion would be to either build a worker first or maybe start building something else (warrior?) and then switch to building a worker when our capital grows to size 2. My reasoning behind this, is as follows: We want to maximize the total sum of hammers, food and gold from our city. In the beginning this can be done in only two ways: By growing the population and by improving the tiles in the fat cross. While we are building the worker, the city won't grow. But when the worker is ready, improving the cow square will increase the food with 1 and the hammers with 2 which is more than the increase when adding one extra citizen (working unimproved floodplain gives 3 extra food and 1 extra gold but the extra citizen will consume two of the food units). And even more important, as soon as we have produced the worker we are able to both let the city grow and improve the available tiles with farms and later cottages and mines.
Please comment if I missed something or you have other ideas!
I fully agree with this. And maybe it is better to let them come for us in the beginning and attack them in open land with (hopefully) our War Charriots
. Also it will be important to get intelligence regarding their strength and type of units before any full blown attack is launched. We should also locate their strategic ressources (horses, bronze etc) and unhooking those.Regarding the rooster I hope our captain will go first. I can be placed whereever it is convenient.
Syntherio
Prince
Having someone, who will never declare war on us, can be very usefull. For example we can give him cities, we are about to lose to the Incans. Maybe we are even able to avoid a high city-maintenance, by giving him cities, which we conquered before and achieve domination-victory anyhow (If the landmass is added in a PA). And avoiding a dispute over religion is easy, just change to no-state-religion if you cannot change to his religion... All this can give us a good relation to our peaceful neighbor.radiopill said:However, founding a PA is pretty hard, and the civ we are at always peace, won't necessarily be our ally. If he dislikes us (because of religion, border tension, war with his friend, etc...), he won't help us much, he only won't attack us... I hope they didn't choose an AI like Izzy or Toku as our always peace civ...
I think we should not ignore the benefits of a PA. But you are right, it is a long game till communism or nationalism...
If anyone has enough time, it would be nice to hear of a testgame with PAs...
When highlighting the names and points of the opponents on the right side of the screen, you will see a "Can not declare war". So no need to start a world warKingdomBrunel said:
Capitals position:
I would also prefer the plains-hill SW. We would still have six floodplains, but get the cow and (thats most important) an extra hammer for the city-tile.
Religion:
I really recommend not to go for one of the three starting religions. Without mysticism and with an aggressive AAW-opponent the possible damage is much greater than the possible gain from this. Confucianism or a later one: okay, but not the first three...
Production:
Building a worker early is a good strategy, imo. We will need roads to and a pasture on the horses (I hope for them
). Maybe working on barracks instead of a warrior, until the city grows?KingdomBrunel
Warlord
I agree - worker to start with. I've not started on buildings until after I've produced a settler before, but I'm quite happy to try that if that's what everyone would like to do, especially if we've got horses in our fat cross and no close neighbours. Perhaps we could start it, switch to a war chariot ASAP, then finish the barracks. I'm nervous about us having only one military unit for too long.
I'm gone for the day now - I'll check back tomorrow.
I'm gone for the day now - I'll check back tomorrow.
Drogear
Prince
checking in
Drogear
Prince
Seems to be a good start positin. Never played this type of team game.
The spot right to the left of the warrior seems optimal, granting all of the floopplains, a cow and 4 hills for prod.
Im opting for a early search for stone to gain easy pyramids for representation.
The spot right to the left of the warrior seems optimal, granting all of the floopplains, a cow and 4 hills for prod.
Im opting for a early search for stone to gain easy pyramids for representation.
Drogear
Prince
If I would played first my starting strategy would be as follows.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=161445&highlight=drogear
But when nessecary changes for this map
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=161445&highlight=drogear
But when nessecary changes for this map
Drogear
Prince
"Animal (pastry) – Mysticism – Meditation – Priesthood (oracle) – Writing – Code Of Law (found Confucianism)
Capital: Start oracle build so it completes right after writing* is researched (Code Of Law)"
then
Alphabet (Tech Trade) – Literature (Great Library – Music (Notre Dame) +(Great person) – Math (HangingG)
Capital: Great Library, Notre Dame (happiness)
2nd City: Hanging Garden
Ok this is vs AI so some wonders has to go
Capital: Start oracle build so it completes right after writing* is researched (Code Of Law)"
then
Alphabet (Tech Trade) – Literature (Great Library – Music (Notre Dame) +(Great person) – Math (HangingG)
Capital: Great Library, Notre Dame (happiness)
2nd City: Hanging Garden
Ok this is vs AI so some wonders has to go
radiopill
Tyrant
Syntherio said:
For the religion you are right, going for meditation or poly isn't a priority, but we should go for mysticism sooner rather than later, for Stonehedge... We don't really need this one as we are creative, but we really need the
Point for our GProphet.For the prod order, I suggest worker-warrior first, and then settler or barrack depending on the environment...
Drogear said:
So IMO, we should go for stonehedge, it's much easier to grab, and the GreatProphet will provide us CoL (and confu hopefully), if search Poly (possibility of grabing Hindu..?)/ Meditation/Priest and writing, but we musn't search Masonry, or the GP will give us Monotheism... And if we go like this, we can grab CS by the oracle (or by another GP, but it will take longer)...
Drogear
Prince
Stonehedge got 2 uses, culture and great prophet.
Culture we already get
And a prophet is only good if we found a religion, and the enemy might get it before us if we go for the early ones. BUT the floodplain start might give a tech headstart if we dont go cray with building loots of other than warrior units at the start and into later on in the "start phase"
Culture we already get
And a prophet is only good if we found a religion, and the enemy might get it before us if we go for the early ones. BUT the floodplain start might give a tech headstart if we dont go cray with building loots of other than warrior units at the start and into later on in the "start phase"
Drogear
Prince
The startposition and cottages makes for great techlead possibilities. Might want to exploit that.
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