SGOTM 01 - Memphis Blues

[Hyfrydle]

Hi Guys

Been out for the night but should be able to start us off tomorrow night will follow the current consensus and play 20 turns then we can take it from there. If anyone has some last minute strategies please let me know.

Thanks.

 

[Drogear]

Pl dont go over the top with military units in the beggining, warriors is all you need unit the wild animals turns into barbarians, then just a few heavy hitters are needed to keep the peace.

 

[Drogear]

With our UU relying on horses and being an early game UU, it would be good to have the horses earlier rather than later wouldn't it? I'd be inclined to go for AH early on, if not first.

Perhaps we need to answer some of the following questions...

How are we trying to win? Do we need to know that now? Does this effect what techs we go for early? Maybe survival early on is an important consideration in the techs - that is, go for AH so we get get horses for our UU, and BW to get some axemen?

The culture angle is worth considering when you're creative and spiritual and therefore founding religions is handy. How important is that compared to the techs mentioned above?

Going to heavy on defens units and tech will crippel the whole game from start to finish. IMO the beggnings should be focused on getting the right techs and the right wonders to keep a solid lead in the game.

Pyramids is still essential even with the representation nerf, giving rep for +2 happy is importent in this game diff and that start possition.

Oracle -> code of law is a standard mornachy diff approach, the oracle will give prophet for extra gold or the pyramid will give enginner for rushing other wonders.

 

[radiopill]

Pyramids is still essential even with the representation nerf, giving rep for +2 happy is importent in this game diff and that start possition.

I don't think pyramids are "essential"... they are a good Wonder, but not(IMO) "essential". We shouldn't focus on it, unless we'll really have a very good chance to grab it (lot of forest to chop and stone easily hooked up...).

Furthermore, for hooking up the potential stone, we need to research Masonry, denying any futur CS slingshot by GP. Nontheless we could go in this case go for theology, wich allow us theocraty (not bad for kicking some a$$)...

 

[Drogear]

Hm never gone for theology, so I can comment on that strategy. But for religion I beliwe codfe of law is better (iva oracle, that research patch is providing alpabeth for an easy access for gret library in the super tech starting city)

One very abvius suggestion is to cottage the floodplains and main the hills an make Thebe the tech capital, going for library-great library. But some healt resoruces might be needed to battle unhealth.

 

[Drogear]

+2 happiness with pyr/rep (and the +3 science/specialist) makes pyramids essential in my book, specially in monarch diff where 9/10 the time you get time to build essentially all the important wonders.

But with so many "chefs" this strategy might prove hard to maintain if all the players arent familiar with it...

 

[radiopill]

Hm never gone for theology, so I can comment on that strategy. But for religion I beliwe codfe of law is better

I agree, I also prefer CoL, but if we researched Masonry (for stone), we are bound to build the oracle for CoL, where we can grab it with a GP (from stonehedge, much cheapier), and we still can build Oracle for Civil Service...

+2 happiness with pyr/rep (and the +3 science/specialist) makes pyramids essential in my book, specially in monarch diff where 9/10 the time you get time to build essentially all the important wonders.

But with so many "chefs" this strategy might prove hard to maintain if all the players arent familiar with it...

It's true, I'm not familiar with this strategy, but as I understand it, this strategy seems really effective for a Space Race win, but I'm not sure this strategy will lead us to an early domination win...
I'm pretty sure, that with all the good players in this team we are going to win this game, but what we all want is winning the competition...

So, IMHO, I don't think that we need Pyr and the Great Lib, for me it's a "waste" of hammer... but I might be wrong...
Anyway, we are in democraty and I will follow the majority.

 

[Syntherio]

I normally don´t build wonders, not even those, which give you a great prophet. You can get a prophet from specialists after building a temple and our Capital can become a nice GPF, but I am open for new strategies
Drogear, are you sure, we will have the time to build the important wonders on Monarch-Level?

Informations on the PAs:
I played a fast testgame with PA and must say, radiopill was right. It is indeed very difficult to form an alliance. I had a very friendly neighbor, but he don´t want to ally with me. He said I´ve "grown too powerfull" for him... Really a logical reason to reject an alliance
Both Civs need the same religion I think, there is no chance with free religion or no-state-religion.

 

[radiopill]

I normally don´t build wonders, not even those, which give you a great prophet. You can get a prophet from specialists after building a temple and our Capital can become a nice GPF, but I am open for new strategies

Yes it's true you can have gpp by specialist... but first you need a religion before building any temple... It can be a real problem, if we are alone on an island, or if our religious neigbour is HC, as he won't give us his religion by OB...

 

[radiopill]

Informations on the PAs:
I played a fast testgame with PA and must say, radiopill was right. It is indeed very difficult to form an alliance. I had a very friendly neighbor, but he don´t want to ally with me. He said I´ve "grown too powerfull" for him... Really a logical reason to reject an alliance
Both Civs need the same religion I think, there is no chance with free religion or no-state-religion.

I've read in an article that to get rid off the "grown too powerfull", you have to disband or give units to your ally... In fact this message happen, when you are tne civ n°1 in power, but when you give units to your ally, he musn't become the most powerfull, or he'll say something as "we can do it by ourselves..."
I search, but i didn't find this article anymore unfortunately...

And for facism, you are right, it would have been to easy with nationalism... but I also read that a defensive pact must be done during 40 turns to increase the chance to have a PA...

 

[Drogear]

I agree, I also prefer CoL, but if we researched Masonry (for stone), we are bound to build the oracle for CoL, where we can grab it with a GP (from stonehedge, much cheapier), and we still can build Oracle for Civil Service...



It's true, I'm not familiar with this strategy, but as I understand it, this strategy seems really effective for a Space Race win, but I'm not sure this strategy will lead us to an early domination win...
I'm pretty sure, that with all the good players in this team we are going to win this game, but what we all want is winning the competition...

So, IMHO, I don't think that we need Pyr and the Great Lib, for me it's a "waste" of hammer... but I might be wrong...
Anyway, we are in democraty and I will follow the majority.

You are absolutly right about the space race win. This is an strategy I developed in the very early civ4 days for Beta gauntlet I (space raece only) got a top10 spot but thats beside the point.

But I think its valide to compete on a toplevel still with some modifications so suite the specific task in hand.

Stone would make life very easy, IF we find it, I strongly opt to get the second city within its area an provide us with the resoruce and go for the pyramids.

Even with no stone I vote for pyramids but Im open for debate.

 

[Drogear]

The floodplains are madefor cottages, cottages = science/money so making the capital a super-tech city might be a good ide, and for that you´ll need the great library.

Great Lib works wonders with Pyr/Rep due to the +3 science/specillist.

All the floodplain will give us a big pop = we need loots of +happy +health
And all the extra food makes for good GP farming to add the GP points from the wonders.

The 4 hills makes for ideal for giving the city hammers to build these and the suner we mine them the better, always a good chance for special resoruces poping up on epic speed.

 

[Frederiksberg]

Drogear: Pl dont go over the top with military units in the beggining, warriors is all you need unit the wild animals turns into barbarians, then just a few heavy hitters are needed to keep the peace.

We are locked in war with the Incans, so a peacefull start is probably out of the question except if the Incan tribe is not on the same continent as we are. This is also the reason that the discussion has been very focused on military considerations. As the game progresses and we get more information about the world we should of course constantly be revising our strategy to fit this.

Drogear: Going to heavy on defens units and tech will crippel the whole game from start to finish. IMO the beggnings should be focused on getting the right techs and the right wonders to keep a solid lead in the game.

I'm not sure what you mean by "too heavy". We have to prepare for the eventuality that the Incans are close to us otherwise this could be a very short game. Having said that I do agree that we have to provide gold for research and expansion as well. But this can be done without wonders. And I don't believe there are any "right" techs or "right" wonders - it all depends on how the game develops: Where and who are our neighbours, which ressources can we get access to, which techs do the other civs have and so forth. I myself often tend to forget building wonders, because you can easily win on all levels without building any (haven't played above emperor level though, but I believe it is even more true on the high levels). So I would encourage you to keep lobbying for wonders but I have a feeling that you need to build a stronger case than just providing a standard top 5 list of wonders in order to persuade the rest of the team (the many other "chefs". Btw does that mean you are the swedish chef ).

Looking forward to many discussions

 

[Drogear]

I normally don´t build wonders, not even those, which give you a great prophet. You can get a prophet from specialists after building a temple and our Capital can become a nice GPF, but I am open for new strategies
Drogear, are you sure, we will have the time to build the important wonders on Monarch-Level?

Informations on the PAs:
I played a fast testgame with PA and must say, radiopill was right. It is indeed very difficult to form an alliance. I had a very friendly neighbor, but he don´t want to ally with me. He said I´ve "grown too powerfull" for him... Really a logical reason to reject an alliance
Both Civs need the same religion I think, there is no chance with free religion or no-state-religion.

I usually get most of the wonders I shot for, but It might be an gamble in this game. But given stone resource there is no question, the lead of other wonder builder are hugh and give you a lead troughout the whole game (proven you maintain tech lead). The AI will loose every importent early wonder race if we get stone, and with a proper tech lead we could in genereal build every possbile wonder (just the importen ones matter really) and make them waist hammers trying to cach up.

 

[Drogear]

But this is an team game, so Im up for the majority vote on things. So please just see my discussion just as discussion and its up for debate. Ill fold to other plans due to the sometimes complez nature of my plan that might be hard to implement in a team game.

The most importen thing is that everyone workes against a common goal and not to try do their own thing everyime the player switches.

 

[Drogear]

We are locked in war with the Incans, so a peacefull start is probably out of the question except if the Incan tribe is not on the same continent as we are. This is also the reason that the discussion has been very focused on military considerations. As the game progresses and we get more information about the world we should of course constantly be revising our strategy to fit this.



I'm not sure what you mean by "too heavy". We have to prepare for the eventuality that the Incans are close to us otherwise this could be a very short game. Having said that I do agree that we have to provide gold for research and expansion as well. But this can be done without wonders. And I don't believe there are any "right" techs or "right" wonders - it all depends on how the game develops: Where and who are our neighbours, which ressources can we get access to, which techs do the other civs have and so forth. I myself often tend to forget building wonders, because you can easily win on all levels without building any (haven't played above emperor level though, but I believe it is even more true on the high levels). So I would encourage you to keep lobbying for wonders but I have a feeling that you need to build a stronger case than just providing a standard top 5 list of wonders in order to persuade the rest of the team (the many other "chefs". Btw does that mean you are the swedish chef ).

Looking forward to many discussions

Damit I missed that, Im sorry. Ok them some initial defens units are in order...

I would hope that we still treat the capital as a super tech/wonder/GP city and make us oh the other cities as unit producers. This would grant os the best of two worlds.

All the eventuall cottages in the capital makes economical room for a larger early empire, thus having 3-5 other cities that provides with unit buildnings.

"(the many other "chefs". Btw does that mean you are the swedish chef )." No not really refered to an old swedish "saying".. hm I cant seem to find the proper translation. Im a student (political science) BTW, but ATM Im an intern at the city hall of Umeå = loots if time behind the computer, but no play

 

[Frederiksberg]

The floodplains are madefor cottages, cottages = science/money so making the capital a super-tech city might be a good ide, and for that you´ll need the great library.

I agree with the cottage part and I still think it is too early to decide on any wonders. Lets wait and see how the war develops and what ressources we can get.

 

[Frederiksberg]

"(the many other "chefs". Btw does that mean you are the swedish chef )." No not really refered to an old swedish "saying".. hm I cant seem to find the proper translation. Im a student (political science) BTW, but ATM Im an intern at the city hall of Umeå = loots if time behind the computer, but no play

I know this saying - in danish it says "For mange kokke fordærver maden". I was hinting at the swedish chef from The Muppet Show. But maybe you are too young to familiar with that. Anyway I prefer French cooking to Scandinavian . And finnish mobile phones to Korean! (I work for Nokia in Copenhagen).

 

[Frederiksberg]

Drogear: The most importen thing is that everyone workes against a common goal and not to try do their own thing everyime the player switches.

Yes!! Its very important that we are consistently following a common plan even if it is not "optimal". A bad plan is better than no plan!

 

[Drogear]

I know this saying - in danish it says "For mange kokke fordærver maden". I was hinting at the swedish chef from The Muppet Show. But maybe you are too young to familiar with that. Anyway I prefer French cooking to Scandinavian . And finnish mobile phones to Korean! (I work for Nokia in Copenhagen).

To young!? Well thanks but Im to old.. Never where into the muppet show thats all. Go nokia but got a s.ericsson atm (I decent partly from Finland)