In general I'm not a big fan of attacking FDR before we're ready to get a tactical advantage. His mobile units most likely come to us and don't get defensive bonuses anyway. Is much more important for our force to be healed and organized. He has a decent army so we will not walk over him like we did Sal and HC. Our units can take his, so we should have a good kill rate and as noted we hugely outproduce him. So if battle happens on our terms we carve him up.
SGOTM 01 - Short Straw
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
Lmtoops
Warlord
RobertTheBruce said:
True, mace can be build with copper, I had forgotten that. The Damascus force can take out the copper. We also split up his offensive forces.
I think I understand your point about encouraging mace production. On the other hand he has very little production yield. I can take all of FDR money by trading Music (he will not have time to get Calvary...??should I do this??) and he as little shield production for new units.
Lmtoops
Warlord
ungy said:
No worries here. For all the reasons you listed, I have abandoned the idea of attacking FDR before Sal is eliminated.
RobertTheBruce
King
Lmtoops said:
I'm just thinking that I would rather have him produce maces than muskets. Power or CR maces (70h) are expensive and poor defenders compared to CG muskets (80h). We won't be attacking with any melee units so maces would be an easy kill for our grenadier forces. We will probably suffer most of our casualties against fortified muskets and long bows which have no resource requirements. The units FDR can produce with resource requirements will be poor defenders other than pikes against knights. A healthy power II grenadier or two can protect our SOD against either maces or knights unless FDR has a large stack of cats somewhere.
I would recommend the music trade. I think we still have a few units which could use upgrades and preventing FDR from upgrading is definitely a good idea.
Sounds solid guys. Attacking FDR right now would be great if we could pull it off, but taking a good look at the save, I'm not so we could accomplish much for quite a few turns - not enough units properly placed right now. Let's finish up Sal, heal up our forces, and prepare a proper invasion on American soil. We'll definitely want frigate support for any amphibious invasions on the north coast sice FDR has caravels and galleons in the city.
Unit-wise, I'd still build at least 50/50 mace/grenadier. We'll be getting 2k or so from the GM soon, so we should be able to upgrade the maces while the built grenadiers can serve as stack/city defenders.
Domestically, we've picked up at least one priest specialist (in Thebes) and a scientist in Novgorod, so check through all the cities and see what other mischief the governor has been up to. I'd also go ahead and pull one of those artists in Machu Picchu so it can start pulling some hammers towards that CH. Also, Cuzco, Cory, and Tiwanaku will all be producing units fairly soon, so we'll need to have 2 supply trains going, one from Hieraconpolis and one from the main continent.
Unit-wise, I'd still build at least 50/50 mace/grenadier. We'll be getting 2k or so from the GM soon, so we should be able to upgrade the maces while the built grenadiers can serve as stack/city defenders.
Domestically, we've picked up at least one priest specialist (in Thebes) and a scientist in Novgorod, so check through all the cities and see what other mischief the governor has been up to. I'd also go ahead and pull one of those artists in Machu Picchu so it can start pulling some hammers towards that CH. Also, Cuzco, Cory, and Tiwanaku will all be producing units fairly soon, so we'll need to have 2 supply trains going, one from Hieraconpolis and one from the main continent.
mushroomshirt
King
Lmtoops said:
Well, I for one liked your original thought of peace with Sal and then war FDR. Seemed very aggressive to me which is great at this point in the game, I think. I guess I didn't set you up too well for this with all the forces around Baghdad. Still, Sal should be eliminated in a few turns, so I guess FDR is not too far off. You may find yourself at war with him near the end of your turn set anyway.
Lmtoops
Warlord
Well I understand what I want to accomplish:
- Capture Baghdad and Damascus
- Positions troops to attack FDR...maybe start the war
- Set up supply line for Aztec continent
- Build Frigates to rule the American coast
- Ground force new builds are half Grenadier (city/stack defenders) and half Macemen (promote CR path and then upgrade to Gernadier).
- Constantly check the Specialist to see if the governor has made changes.
- Prior to FDR war, trade Music for all I can.
Now let's see if I can execute.
- Capture Baghdad and Damascus
- Positions troops to attack FDR...maybe start the war
- Set up supply line for Aztec continent
- Build Frigates to rule the American coast
- Ground force new builds are half Grenadier (city/stack defenders) and half Macemen (promote CR path and then upgrade to Gernadier).
- Constantly check the Specialist to see if the governor has made changes.
- Prior to FDR war, trade Music for all I can.
Now let's see if I can execute.
Lmtoops
Warlord
My turns are done, I uploaded the save and here it is:
http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm1/Short_Straw_SG001_AD1502_01.Civ4SavedGame
It is tooo late to do all the write-up but I figure I would give you the highlights.
Turn 297, 1442 - Between turns FDR finds Houston N of El-Amarna. I'm sending a Galleon (1 Grenadier, 1 Mace, 1 cat) to take out Houston.
Turn 298, 1448 - Damascus was lightly defended and FDR marched a huge stack to take it and he did, easily. FDR stack was 4 War Elephants, 4 CrossBows, 2 Knights, 2 Mace, 2 Pike, 1 Horse Archer, 1 LB, 1 Cat. In the subsequent turns the stack moved towards Mecca.
Turn 299, 1454 - Baghdad is captured lost one unlucky Maceman. It is a race to Mecca between myself and FDR.
Turn 302, 1472 - The battle for Mecca begins and ends, and it's ours. I wanted to wait another turn, but the risk was small. In the end we lost no troops. Our Gr. Merchant reaches Bombay and we get 2550g.
Turn 303, 1478 - FDR stack is headed to Barb City. I'll let the stack go that direction (West) while I heal. I already have troops in position to take the Barb City, but I'll wait.
Turn 305, 1490 - I take the Barb City. FDR stack has split in 2 stacks. I will set up to ambush the stack when it clears the forests around Mecca.
Turn 307, 1502 - I decide to attack the stack still in the forest. They have surround Mecca, although I doubt FDR would have attacked. It was just too tempting having the weaker stack right next to Mecca...I can attack from the city (although he was in a forest and across a river). I loose 3 cats and 1 Grenadier. FDR looses 1 Knight, 1 LB, 2 Pikes, and 1 CBow. His other units are very weak. We will be able to hold all cities easily. I also sunk a full galleon...I can't remember what the units were. Frigate takes caravel but was badly damaged (SE of Atlanta). I could not get FDR gold ($410), so he will get a few upgrades.
We are set to take Damascus in turn 308. I forgot to move the troops next to Houston, but Houston is ours in Turn 308.
I think I turned off all the GoTo moves, but check it out. There are 2 Galleons in Kufah (1 full, 1 w/1). There are 2 Galleons (not full maybe 3 troops) N of Basra, which are unguarded; they should be fine.
I did not change to Slavery. I was waiting for Mecca to come out of anarchy. I would wait until we get our next Gr. Merchant, which is 4 turns.
I think those are the highlights. It is 3am and I need to get up early. So play on.
http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm1/Short_Straw_SG001_AD1502_01.Civ4SavedGame
It is tooo late to do all the write-up but I figure I would give you the highlights.
Turn 297, 1442 - Between turns FDR finds Houston N of El-Amarna. I'm sending a Galleon (1 Grenadier, 1 Mace, 1 cat) to take out Houston.
Turn 298, 1448 - Damascus was lightly defended and FDR marched a huge stack to take it and he did, easily. FDR stack was 4 War Elephants, 4 CrossBows, 2 Knights, 2 Mace, 2 Pike, 1 Horse Archer, 1 LB, 1 Cat. In the subsequent turns the stack moved towards Mecca.
Turn 299, 1454 - Baghdad is captured lost one unlucky Maceman. It is a race to Mecca between myself and FDR.
Turn 302, 1472 - The battle for Mecca begins and ends, and it's ours. I wanted to wait another turn, but the risk was small. In the end we lost no troops. Our Gr. Merchant reaches Bombay and we get 2550g.
Turn 303, 1478 - FDR stack is headed to Barb City. I'll let the stack go that direction (West) while I heal. I already have troops in position to take the Barb City, but I'll wait.
Turn 305, 1490 - I take the Barb City. FDR stack has split in 2 stacks. I will set up to ambush the stack when it clears the forests around Mecca.
Turn 307, 1502 - I decide to attack the stack still in the forest. They have surround Mecca, although I doubt FDR would have attacked. It was just too tempting having the weaker stack right next to Mecca...I can attack from the city (although he was in a forest and across a river). I loose 3 cats and 1 Grenadier. FDR looses 1 Knight, 1 LB, 2 Pikes, and 1 CBow. His other units are very weak. We will be able to hold all cities easily. I also sunk a full galleon...I can't remember what the units were. Frigate takes caravel but was badly damaged (SE of Atlanta). I could not get FDR gold ($410), so he will get a few upgrades.
We are set to take Damascus in turn 308. I forgot to move the troops next to Houston, but Houston is ours in Turn 308.
I think I turned off all the GoTo moves, but check it out. There are 2 Galleons in Kufah (1 full, 1 w/1). There are 2 Galleons (not full maybe 3 troops) N of Basra, which are unguarded; they should be fine.
I did not change to Slavery. I was waiting for Mecca to come out of anarchy. I would wait until we get our next Gr. Merchant, which is 4 turns.
I think those are the highlights. It is 3am and I need to get up early. So play on.
Danthor
Warlord
Lmtoops said:
Lmtoops
Warlord
Danthor said:Lmtoops said:
Ohhhh Kay
I am following the World Cup, especially the US. With our 1st round tank, we have to win out and win big.
I'm not going to do a full write-up, too much to do. Summary of production, I built (or started to build) 3 frigates, 2 LB, 8 Mace, 9 Grenadiers, 2 Cats, 2 or 3 CH, and a lighthouse.
That's it...the King (ex-King) has to pack and get on the road.....later
Back to the CIV game, I also took out 2 Knights that were outside the old barb city. Danthor, you will have a fun turn...lots of attacking
Lmtoops
Warlord
All right, just one more. Built FP in my second turn, which saved us about 40 gpt.
No More
No More
llib_rm
Prince
Lmtoops said:
Good Job!!!
nice going Lmtoops. seems like the next few turns will be about destroying FDR's forces near Mecca and taking Damascus.
I think it's unlikely FDR can interrupt our reinforcement convoys, and worth sending the frigates ahead to bombard Boston and Seattle so they are reduced when we get there.
I think it's unlikely FDR can interrupt our reinforcement convoys, and worth sending the frigates ahead to bombard Boston and Seattle so they are reduced when we get there.
Good work Lmtoops. One of the first things I looked at on the new save was the power graph. We're pulling away from Roosevelt with a vengence, so it's really only a matter of how long I think. It seems like we've got the seas mostly under control for now. If we see that we suddenly need more frigates (maybe we see Roosevelt sending a couple of galleons of troops) we can move the caravels into Egyptian waters and upgrade them. We can use them to help bombard coastal cities, and 'save' our cats for suiciding instead.
I did some calculations, and there looks to be pretty good news. Ghandi has 21% of the land area with 190 land tiles, and that seems to suggest there are a little over 900 (call it 910) on the map. We own 39.22%, which translates to about 357 tiles, Roosevelt has 174, and there are 61 unclaimed on his continent (not to mention 11 more on HC's/our continents.) 357+174+61+11 = 603 tiles. At 910 tiles, the domination limit (64%) works out to 583. That's not over by a large margin, but there's always Cyrus's lands if we need just a little more. We probably do need to look at a plan for claiming all the tiles on Washington's continent though. There are some pretty big gaps between some of the cities and we'll probably need settlers to claim those lands.
I did some calculations, and there looks to be pretty good news. Ghandi has 21% of the land area with 190 land tiles, and that seems to suggest there are a little over 900 (call it 910) on the map. We own 39.22%, which translates to about 357 tiles, Roosevelt has 174, and there are 61 unclaimed on his continent (not to mention 11 more on HC's/our continents.) 357+174+61+11 = 603 tiles. At 910 tiles, the domination limit (64%) works out to 583. That's not over by a large margin, but there's always Cyrus's lands if we need just a little more. We probably do need to look at a plan for claiming all the tiles on Washington's continent though. There are some pretty big gaps between some of the cities and we'll probably need settlers to claim those lands.
Lmtoops said:That's it...the King (ex-King
:Looks over at his avatar: Hey, I am a king.
When did that happen? About 24 posts ago I guess.Lmtoops said:
I just hope Danthor's not trying to play and watch the World Cup at the same time. No telling what could happen if his team scores a GOOOOOOOAAAAALLLLL!!!!!! He might accidentally misclick and give all of our cities away to Ghandi.
mushroomshirt
King
Grogs said:
That is good news! I like taking down a few of Cyrus' cities tho rather than building too many extra settlers to pick up one or two tiles (Like the ones on our and HC's continents. For FDR's continent with wide open areas, that's a different story). We will have a hell of a war machine after destroying FDR (we have a hell of a military now!). Can I suggest that when we have basically whipped FDR, we take a galleon or two over and take a few of Cyrus' cities? That way they will come out of resistance at the same time of the last of FDR's cities and we should be able to reach domination faster.
EDIT: Artists can help a lot too for border expansion in FDR's captive cities & for the one or two tiles on our continents that we need to fill in. It can be cheaper and faster than settlers in some cases. That square of 4 unclaimed tiles in the middle of HC's land is a good place where we can run some artists later and pick up a few tiles if that's all we need.
Not only artists, but we can set those cities to build culture and raise the culture slider as high as it will go at the end. I was mostly looking at spots where there's more than 4 tiles between cities though, but yeah, it's probably faster to just grab a bit of Cy's lands than try and fill every tile on the continents we have.
We should probably land an explorer or something on Cyrus's continent in the next turnset to get an idea of how big his cultural boundaries (probably 60%) and garrisons are. He's creative, so we may not pick up many tiles by just taking his coastal cities - we may need to take the Susa, for example, to pick up many tiles from Tarsus.
We should probably land an explorer or something on Cyrus's continent in the next turnset to get an idea of how big his cultural boundaries (probably 60%) and garrisons are. He's creative, so we may not pick up many tiles by just taking his coastal cities - we may need to take the Susa, for example, to pick up many tiles from Tarsus.
mushroomshirt
King
Grogs said:
Right! Sounds like a good plan to me.
Lmtoops
Warlord
Grogs said:
The carvel that took the GP to Bombay is headed back to the Egyptian coast. The next GP will be ready in about 4 turns. You can send the GP and an explorer.
At some point soon, we will have plenty of units in FDR's continent. We can start diverting to Ghandi, and stage the invasion forces against Cyrus....just in case it's needed.
Lmtoops
Warlord
Oh one more thing, there is a settler in one of the Sal cities (starts with an M??). He is not fortified, so he will pop up. He could come in handy to fill out the cultural borders.
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