SGOTM 02 - Memphis Blues

[Mad Professor]

If we build archer first we can still have IW before the settler is produced even with Mysticism in between.

Yes, I have the "I want everything and I want it now" disease.

I agree with this. If the Henge is not completed we get a gold compensation meaning that we have effectively traded food for commerce, which seems to be a good deal right now when Kyoto can't grow past pop 5 anyway. Using the overflow from other builds is to circumvent the wonder penalty on pop rushing (The legal exploit mentioned earlier).

Yes, it's nice to be able to use all that food for something when you can't grow your city any more just yet. Changing some fo that food into cash is definitely not all bad!

@ShannonCT: Good luck with the turns.

I second that. Go get 'em!!

 

[ShannonCT]

Another turnset filled with surprises:

Turn 0 (1630BC) Archer and worker move east to forest. Switch Kyoto to workboat.

Turn 1 (1600BC) Archer defeats barb warrior. Worker begins road. Switch from IW to sailing.

Turn 2 (1570BC) Warrior moves to forest to intercept archer.

Turn 3 (1540BC) Warrior defeats barb archer. Archer defeats barb warrior.

Turn 4 (1510BC) Archer defeats barb archer. Worker and archer move to plains hill east of Osaka.

Turn 5 (1480BC) Archer completed in Osaka (given City Garrison I). Switch to settler.

Turn 6 (1450BC) 3 barb warriors are around Osaka. Switch one scientist in Osaka to gather food, pop growth in 3 turns.

Turn 7 (1420BC) 2 archers defeat 2 barb warriors. Our warrior moves south to forest hill.

Turn 8 (1390BC) Warrior defeats barb warrior (upgrades to Cover). Archer defeats barb warrior. Sailing finished. Stonehenge built in a distant land. Go back to Iron Working since there's no urgent need for Mysticism.

Turn 9 (1360BC) Archer and worker move to copper. Kyoto grows to pop5 and whips galley. Working 3 seafood to get to happiness limit (no scientists).

Turn 10 (1330BC) Archer defeats barb archer (upgrade to City Garrison II). Settler in Kyoto sets sail. Worker starts road on copper.

Turn 11 (1300BC) Barb archer steps on gems. Switch to oasis. Combat II archer is only 72.8% chance to win, so I dont attack. Settler lands on cow island.


Turn 12 (1270BC) IW completed. Take a look:

That's right boys ... iron in Osaka!! I think we settled in the perfect spot. Barb archer pillages gems. Bollocks! Worker and archer head back toward Osaka. Tokyo (Cow City) founded and begins a library. Tokyo's line of site reveals that there is no way to escape the islands until astronomy.

Turn 13 (1240BC) Barb archer pillages gems road. Issy discovered going south toward the copper with 2 archers and a settler. No hope in attacking. Archer and worker keep moving back to Osaka. Archer defeats barb archer.

Turn 14 (1210BC) Two archers defeat two barb archers.

Turn 15 (1180BC) Archer defeats barb warrior.

Turn 16 (1150BC) Warrior defeats barb warrior. Diplo screen reveals Issy has 4th city. Work boat completed in Kyoto, sets sail for 2nd clam.

Turn 17 (1120BC) Archer defeats barb archer. Settler completed in Osaka. Begin work on warrior. Worker begins iron mine. Warrior heading west. Mysticism completed, begin Polytheism.

Turn 18 (1090BC) Issy asks for open borders. I deny her. Work boat builds clam nets.

Turn 19 (1060BC) Warrior defeats barb archer (promote to Woodsman I). Archer defeats barb warrior (promote to Cover). Whip another workboat in Kyoto, down to 1 scientist.

Turn 20 (1030BC) Kyoto completes workboat, sets sail to other clams. Start on warrior for Tokyo.

A couple more screenshots:

Spoiler :

Turn 79, 1630 BC: Memphis Blues's Archer (3.60) vs Barbarian's Warrior (2.00)
Turn 79, 1630 BC: Combat Odds: 98.1%
Turn 79, 1630 BC: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 79, 1630 BC: Memphis Blues's Archer is hit for 15 (85/100HP)
Turn 79, 1630 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 26 (74/100HP)
Turn 79, 1630 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 26 (48/100HP)
Turn 79, 1630 BC: Memphis Blues's Archer is hit for 15 (70/100HP)
Turn 79, 1630 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 26 (22/100HP)
Turn 79, 1630 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 26 (0/100HP)
Turn 79, 1630 BC: Memphis Blues's Archer has defeated Barbarian's Warrior!
Turn 79, 1630 BC: Isabella adopts <COLOR=102,229,255,255Slavery!
Turn 79, 1630 BC: Barbarian's Warrior (2.00) vs Memphis Blues's Archer (4.80)
Turn 79, 1630 BC: Combat Odds: 0.2%
Turn 79, 1630 BC: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 79, 1630 BC: (Plot Defense: +50%)
Turn 79, 1630 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 30 (70/100HP)
Turn 79, 1630 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 30 (40/100HP)
Turn 79, 1630 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 30 (10/100HP)
Turn 79, 1630 BC: Memphis Blues's Archer is hit for 13 (87/100HP)
Turn 79, 1630 BC: Memphis Blues's Archer is hit for 13 (74/100HP)
Turn 79, 1630 BC: Memphis Blues's Archer is hit for 13 (61/100HP)
Turn 79, 1630 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 30 (0/100HP)
Turn 79, 1630 BC: Memphis Blues's Archer has defeated Barbarian's Warrior!

Turn 81, 1570 BC: Barbarian's Archer (3.00) vs Memphis Blues's Warrior (3.70)
Turn 81, 1570 BC: Combat Odds: 30.7%
Turn 81, 1570 BC: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 81, 1570 BC: (Plot Defense: +50%)
Turn 81, 1570 BC: (River Attack: +25%)
Turn 81, 1570 BC: Memphis Blues's Warrior is hit for 18 (82/100HP)
Turn 81, 1570 BC: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 22 (78/100HP)
Turn 81, 1570 BC: Memphis Blues's Warrior is hit for 18 (64/100HP)
Turn 81, 1570 BC: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 22 (56/100HP)
Turn 81, 1570 BC: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 22 (34/100HP)
Turn 81, 1570 BC: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 22 (12/100HP)
Turn 81, 1570 BC: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 22 (0/100HP)
Turn 81, 1570 BC: Memphis Blues's Warrior has defeated Barbarian's Archer!

Turn 82, 1540 BC: Memphis Blues's Archer (3.60) vs Barbarian's Warrior (2.00)
Turn 82, 1540 BC: Combat Odds: 98.1%
Turn 82, 1540 BC: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 82, 1540 BC: Memphis Blues's Archer is hit for 15 (85/100HP)
Turn 82, 1540 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 26 (74/100HP)
Turn 82, 1540 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 26 (48/100HP)
Turn 82, 1540 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 26 (22/100HP)
Turn 82, 1540 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 26 (0/100HP)
Turn 82, 1540 BC: Memphis Blues's Archer has defeated Barbarian's Warrior!
Turn 82, 1540 BC: Barbarian's Archer (3.00) vs Memphis Blues's Archer (6.30)
Turn 82, 1540 BC: Combat Odds: 0.7%
Turn 82, 1540 BC: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 82, 1540 BC: (Plot Defense: +25%)
Turn 82, 1540 BC: (Hills: +75%)
Turn 82, 1540 BC: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 28 (72/100HP)
Turn 82, 1540 BC: Memphis Blues's Archer is hit for 13 (87/100HP)
Turn 82, 1540 BC: Memphis Blues's Archer is hit for 13 (74/100HP)
Turn 82, 1540 BC: Memphis Blues's Archer is hit for 13 (61/100HP)
Turn 82, 1540 BC: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 28 (44/100HP)
Turn 82, 1540 BC: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 28 (16/100HP)
Turn 82, 1540 BC: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 28 (0/100HP)
Turn 82, 1540 BC: Memphis Blues's Archer has defeated Barbarian's Archer!

Turn 83, 1510 BC: You have trained a Archer in Osaka. Work has now begun on a Settler.

Turn 85, 1450 BC: Barbarian's Warrior (2.00) vs Memphis Blues's Archer (6.00)
Turn 85, 1450 BC: Combat Odds: 0.0%
Turn 85, 1450 BC: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 85, 1450 BC: (Plot Defense: +25%)
Turn 85, 1450 BC: (Fortify: +10%)
Turn 85, 1450 BC: (Hills: +75%)
Turn 85, 1450 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 33 (67/100HP)
Turn 85, 1450 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 33 (34/100HP)
Turn 85, 1450 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 33 (1/100HP)
Turn 85, 1450 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 33 (0/100HP)
Turn 85, 1450 BC: Memphis Blues's Archer has defeated Barbarian's Warrior!
Turn 85, 1450 BC: Barbarian's Warrior (2.00) vs Memphis Blues's Archer (3.60)
Turn 85, 1450 BC: Combat Odds: 1.8%
Turn 85, 1450 BC: (Extra Combat: +20%)
Turn 85, 1450 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 26 (74/100HP)
Turn 85, 1450 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 26 (48/100HP)
Turn 85, 1450 BC: Memphis Blues's Archer is hit for 15 (85/100HP)
Turn 85, 1450 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 26 (22/100HP)
Turn 85, 1450 BC: Memphis Blues's Archer is hit for 15 (70/100HP)
Turn 85, 1450 BC: Memphis Blues's Archer is hit for 15 (55/100HP)
Turn 85, 1450 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 26 (0/100HP)
Turn 85, 1450 BC: Memphis Blues's Archer has defeated Barbarian's Warrior!

Turn 86, 1420 BC: You have discovered Sailing!
Turn 86, 1420 BC: Stonehenge has been built in a far away land!
Turn 86, 1420 BC: Barbarian's Warrior (2.00) vs Memphis Blues's Warrior (3.70)
Turn 86, 1420 BC: Combat Odds: 1.2%
Turn 86, 1420 BC: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 86, 1420 BC: (Plot Defense: +75%)
Turn 86, 1420 BC: Memphis Blues's Warrior is hit for 14 (86/100HP)
Turn 86, 1420 BC: Memphis Blues's Warrior is hit for 14 (72/100HP)
Turn 86, 1420 BC: Memphis Blues's Warrior is hit for 14 (58/100HP)
Turn 86, 1420 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 27 (73/100HP)
Turn 86, 1420 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 27 (46/100HP)
Turn 86, 1420 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 27 (19/100HP)
Turn 86, 1420 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 27 (0/100HP)
Turn 86, 1420 BC: Memphis Blues's Warrior has defeated Barbarian's Warrior!

Turn 87, 1390 BC: Memphis Blues's Archer (3.60) vs Barbarian's Warrior (2.00)
Turn 87, 1390 BC: Combat Odds: 98.1%
Turn 87, 1390 BC: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 87, 1390 BC: Memphis Blues's Archer is hit for 15 (85/100HP)
Turn 87, 1390 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 26 (74/100HP)
Turn 87, 1390 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 26 (48/100HP)
Turn 87, 1390 BC: Memphis Blues's Archer is hit for 15 (70/100HP)
Turn 87, 1390 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 26 (22/100HP)
Turn 87, 1390 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 26 (0/100HP)
Turn 87, 1390 BC: Memphis Blues's Archer has defeated Barbarian's Warrior!

Turn 88, 1360 BC: You have trained a Galley in Kyoto. Work has now begun on a Work Boat.
Turn 88, 1360 BC: Barbarian's Archer (3.00) vs Memphis Blues's Archer (4.50)
Turn 88, 1360 BC: Combat Odds: 9.9%
Turn 88, 1360 BC: (Plot Defense: +50%)
Turn 88, 1360 BC: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 24 (76/100HP)
Turn 88, 1360 BC: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 24 (52/100HP)
Turn 88, 1360 BC: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 24 (28/100HP)
Turn 88, 1360 BC: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 24 (4/100HP)
Turn 88, 1360 BC: Memphis Blues's Archer is hit for 16 (84/100HP)
Turn 88, 1360 BC: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 24 (0/100HP)
Turn 88, 1360 BC: Memphis Blues's Archer has defeated Barbarian's Archer!

Turn 90, 1300 BC: You have discovered Iron Working!
Turn 90, 1300 BC: Isabella adopts <COLOR=102,229,255,255Organized Religion!
Turn 90, 1300 BC: Barbarian's Warrior (2.00) vs Memphis Blues's Warrior (3.70)
Turn 90, 1300 BC: Combat Odds: 1.2%
Turn 90, 1300 BC: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 90, 1300 BC: (Plot Defense: +75%)
Turn 90, 1300 BC: Memphis Blues's Warrior is hit for 14 (86/100HP)
Turn 90, 1300 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 27 (73/100HP)
Turn 90, 1300 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 27 (46/100HP)
Turn 90, 1300 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 27 (19/100HP)
Turn 90, 1300 BC: Memphis Blues's Warrior is hit for 14 (72/100HP)
Turn 90, 1300 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 27 (0/100HP)
Turn 90, 1300 BC: Memphis Blues's Warrior has defeated Barbarian's Warrior!

Turn 91, 1270 BC: Tokyo has been founded.
Turn 91, 1270 BC: Barbarian's Archer (3.00) vs Memphis Blues's Archer (7.05)
Turn 91, 1270 BC: Combat Odds: 0.4%
Turn 91, 1270 BC: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 91, 1270 BC: (Plot Defense: +25%)
Turn 91, 1270 BC: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 91, 1270 BC: (Hills: +75%)
Turn 91, 1270 BC: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 30 (70/100HP)
Turn 91, 1270 BC: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 30 (40/100HP)
Turn 91, 1270 BC: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 30 (10/100HP)
Turn 91, 1270 BC: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 30 (0/100HP)
Turn 91, 1270 BC: Memphis Blues's Archer has defeated Barbarian's Archer!

Turn 92, 1240 BC: Barbarian's Archer (3.00) vs Memphis Blues's Archer (7.05)
Turn 92, 1240 BC: Combat Odds: 0.4%
Turn 92, 1240 BC: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 92, 1240 BC: (Plot Defense: +25%)
Turn 92, 1240 BC: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 92, 1240 BC: (Hills: +75%)
Turn 92, 1240 BC: Memphis Blues's Archer is hit for 13 (87/100HP)
Turn 92, 1240 BC: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 30 (70/100HP)
Turn 92, 1240 BC: Memphis Blues's Archer is hit for 13 (74/100HP)
Turn 92, 1240 BC: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 30 (40/100HP)
Turn 92, 1240 BC: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 30 (10/100HP)
Turn 92, 1240 BC: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 30 (0/100HP)
Turn 92, 1240 BC: Memphis Blues's Archer has defeated Barbarian's Archer!
Turn 92, 1240 BC: Barbarian's Archer (3.00) vs Memphis Blues's Archer (8.40)
Turn 92, 1240 BC: Combat Odds: 0.1%
Turn 92, 1240 BC: (Plot Defense: +25%)
Turn 92, 1240 BC: (Fortify: +10%)
Turn 92, 1240 BC: (City Defense: +95%)
Turn 92, 1240 BC: (Hills: +25%)
Turn 92, 1240 BC: (City Barbarian Defense: +25%)
Turn 92, 1240 BC: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 32 (68/100HP)
Turn 92, 1240 BC: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 32 (36/100HP)
Turn 92, 1240 BC: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 32 (4/100HP)
Turn 92, 1240 BC: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 32 (0/100HP)
Turn 92, 1240 BC: Memphis Blues's Archer has defeated Barbarian's Archer!

Turn 93, 1210 BC: Barbarian's Warrior (2.00) vs Memphis Blues's Archer (4.80)
Turn 93, 1210 BC: Combat Odds: 0.2%
Turn 93, 1210 BC: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 93, 1210 BC: (Plot Defense: +50%)
Turn 93, 1210 BC: Memphis Blues's Archer is hit for 13 (87/100HP)
Turn 93, 1210 BC: Memphis Blues's Archer is hit for 13 (74/100HP)
Turn 93, 1210 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 30 (70/100HP)
Turn 93, 1210 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 30 (40/100HP)
Turn 93, 1210 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 30 (10/100HP)
Turn 93, 1210 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 30 (0/100HP)
Turn 93, 1210 BC: Memphis Blues's Archer has defeated Barbarian's Warrior!

Turn 94, 1180 BC: You have trained a Work Boat in Kyoto. Work has now begun on a Granary.
Turn 94, 1180 BC: Barbarian's Warrior (2.00) vs Memphis Blues's Warrior (3.20)
Turn 94, 1180 BC: Combat Odds: 4.4%
Turn 94, 1180 BC: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 94, 1180 BC: (Plot Defense: +50%)
Turn 94, 1180 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 25 (75/100HP)
Turn 94, 1180 BC: Memphis Blues's Warrior is hit for 15 (85/100HP)
Turn 94, 1180 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 25 (50/100HP)
Turn 94, 1180 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 25 (25/100HP)
Turn 94, 1180 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 25 (0/100HP)
Turn 94, 1180 BC: Memphis Blues's Warrior has defeated Barbarian's Warrior!

Turn 95, 1150 BC: You have discovered Mysticism!
Turn 95, 1150 BC: Barbarian's Archer (3.00) vs Memphis Blues's Archer (5.10)
Turn 95, 1150 BC: Combat Odds: 3.6%
Turn 95, 1150 BC: (Extra Combat: +20%)
Turn 95, 1150 BC: (Plot Defense: +50%)
Turn 95, 1150 BC: Memphis Blues's Archer is hit for 15 (85/100HP)
Turn 95, 1150 BC: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 25 (75/100HP)
Turn 95, 1150 BC: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 25 (50/100HP)
Turn 95, 1150 BC: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 25 (25/100HP)
Turn 95, 1150 BC: Memphis Blues's Archer is hit for 15 (70/100HP)
Turn 95, 1150 BC: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 25 (0/100HP)
Turn 95, 1150 BC: Memphis Blues's Archer has defeated Barbarian's Archer!

Turn 97, 1090 BC: The enemy has been spotted near Osaka!
Turn 97, 1090 BC: Barbarian's Archer (3.00) vs Memphis Blues's Warrior (4.20)
Turn 97, 1090 BC: Combat Odds: 15.1%
Turn 97, 1090 BC: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 97, 1090 BC: (Plot Defense: +50%)
Turn 97, 1090 BC: (Combat: +25%)
Turn 97, 1090 BC: (River Attack: +25%)
Turn 97, 1090 BC: Memphis Blues's Warrior is hit for 16 (84/100HP)
Turn 97, 1090 BC: Memphis Blues's Warrior is hit for 16 (68/100HP)
Turn 97, 1090 BC: Memphis Blues's Warrior is hit for 16 (52/100HP)
Turn 97, 1090 BC: Memphis Blues's Warrior is hit for 16 (36/100HP)
Turn 97, 1090 BC: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 23 (77/100HP)
Turn 97, 1090 BC: Memphis Blues's Warrior is hit for 16 (20/100HP)
Turn 97, 1090 BC: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 23 (54/100HP)
Turn 97, 1090 BC: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 23 (31/100HP)
Turn 97, 1090 BC: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 23 (8/100HP)
Turn 97, 1090 BC: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 23 (0/100HP)
Turn 97, 1090 BC: Memphis Blues's Warrior has defeated Barbarian's Archer!
Turn 97, 1090 BC: While defending, your Warrior has killed a Barbarian Archer!
Turn 97, 1090 BC: Barbarian's Warrior (2.00) vs Memphis Blues's Archer (4.93)
Turn 97, 1090 BC: Combat Odds: 0.2%
Turn 97, 1090 BC: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 97, 1090 BC: (Plot Defense: +25%)
Turn 97, 1090 BC: (Fortify: +5%)
Turn 97, 1090 BC: (Hills: +45%)
Turn 97, 1090 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 31 (69/100HP)
Turn 97, 1090 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 31 (38/100HP)
Turn 97, 1090 BC: Memphis Blues's Archer is hit for 12 (77/100HP)
Turn 97, 1090 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 31 (7/100HP)
Turn 97, 1090 BC: Memphis Blues's Archer is hit for 12 (65/100HP)
Turn 97, 1090 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 31 (0/100HP)
Turn 97, 1090 BC: Memphis Blues's Archer has defeated Barbarian's Warrior!
Turn 97, 1090 BC: While defending, your Archer has killed a Barbarian Warrior!

Turn 98, 1060 BC: You have trained a Work Boat in Kyoto. Work has now begun on a Warrior.

Turn 99, 1030 BC: The enemy has been spotted near Osaka!

So to summarize, we have iron in Osaka and it will be mined in 3 turns, and need 3 more turns to build the road. We have a settler sitting in Osaka but the copper site has been settled by Issy 4-5 turns ago. We have a warrior with Combat I, Cover, and Woodsman I. Another warrior will be done in 2 turns in Osaka. We have a archer with Combat 1, Guerilla I and II; an archer with Combat I and II and Medic; an archer with Combat 1, Guerilla I, and Cover; and an archer with City Garrison I and II.

The barbs were very disruptive and pillaged the mine and road on the gems but the record for my turnset was Barbs 0 - Memphis Blues 17. They earned us the promotions that we need to really gain some momentum on them. Our power graph on the results page is tops again. I can imagine other teams are having a very bad time of it.

Kyoto is building a warrior for Tokyo that will be done in 8 turns. Kyoto will grow to pop4 in 1 turn but will have to wait 4 turns for a whip to wear off to use the extra pop. Tokyo is working an improved clam and will grow to pop2 in 3 turns, exactly when the 2nd workboat will arrive to improve the 2nd clam. Tokyo needs to grow to pop6 to whip a library. The two northern islands are completely isolated until astronomy.

Polytheism will be completed in 6 turns at the current reasearch rate. Pillaged gems has slowed down research, but Tokyo is starting to make up for it. Stonehenge is the only wonder that has been completed so far.

 

[Mad Professor]

Another turnset filled with surprises:

I think our game designer set out specifically to achieve this!

Turn 8 (1390BC) Warrior defeats barb warrior (upgrades to Cover). Archer defeats barb warrior. Sailing finished. Stonehenge built in a distant land. Go back to Iron Working since there's no urgent need for Mysticism.

That at least is not a surprise. Stonehenge is usually a favourite of the AI.

Turn 12 (1270BC) IW completed. Take a look:

That's right boys ... iron in Osaka!! I think we settled in the perfect spot.

I was only kidding when I said we should wish for iron near Osake, and on one of those hills at that... What a scream!

Turn 13 (1240BC) Issy discovered going south toward the copper with 2 archers and a settler. No hope in attacking.

This I feared. However since we have iron near Osaka which lets us put out both axes and swords, this is not a total disaster, though I think now it means we move as quickly as practically possible against Izzy so she doesn't get too many axes before we hit her.

On the positive side, we can capture her city near the copper instead of using our own settler. Our own settler can be put to another use somewhere else. Saves us building another one.

The barbs were very disruptive and pillaged the mine and road on the gems but the record for my turnset was Barbs 0 - Memphis Blues 17. They earned us the promotions that we need to really gain some momentum on them.

That's raging barbs for you. score so far is 41-1. Pretty good. May it get ever better!

Overal, looks like you did well. The loss of the copper site is offset by the discovery of iron near what has turned out to be the city location of all city locations...

I think though it means we need to prioritise getting a piece of Izzy, so that she doesn't build up an army of axes. She would be much harder to deal with if she did.

 

[ShannonCT]

Yes, we need to act quickly against Issy. I'm not sure where Issy put that 4th city but I dont see the edge of her borders so I dont think she put it where we were planning to. If I remember correctly, she was spotted 1NE of the copper. I wouldn't expect her to settle there since that would be alot of overlap with the city to the north. I think 1E or 1SE of the copper is more likely. But if she is 1NE of the copper, we will need to immediately go after any worker mining the copper so that she doesn't get the copper out by the coast. If she didn't settle on the coast, it will take her some time to build the road from the north, and we could wait to declare until we have a few axes/swords to start attacking cities. We have an archer-killer archer that would be a good scout.

Once that iron is mined, we can start working the iron mine for 5 hammers and keep working the gold mine for 3 hammers. This would mean a food deficit of 1 per turn, but we could avoid starvation for 20 turns or more and be getting 10 hammers per turn. This is the best way to really start up the war machine without chopping.

 

[Mad Professor]

Here's the playing roster now:

Mad Professor
Frederiksberg
Radiopill
KingdomBrunel
ShannonCT (Just playerd)
BSouder (up next)

 

[Mad Professor]

For the next turnset, we have some things to discuss I think.

The settler in Osaka - can we afford to settle some other place, or is it better not to for now?

Cranking up the war machine in Osaka - we need to prevent Izzy getting good use of that copper. I don't think she has other copper, or we might have seen axemen with that settler that came south, not archers, though this is not certain. If in the process of preventing her from using the copper, we can steal a worker as well, so much the better. I think we should be trimming her wings sooner rather than later. An Izzy without metal will be much less a headache that an Izzy with metal.

Fogbusting to the south? There'll still be barbarians coming from there, and soon axmen will be coming too, no doubt. Around 700BC wasn't it? Good thing we have that iron. Does anyone know when barbarians generally start settling cities? We might not need to build another settler if that is soon...

Tech path? So we're still heading for priesthood? Then what?

 

[KingdomBrunel]

Good job ShannonCT - you'd have thought those barbs would have given up by now

I don't mind whether we settle or not - we're going to war, and we have the techs we need to do it, so it doesn't bother me if science takes a shortterm hit. Those captured cities are going to cost though, so maybe if we founded the city, and started palace building in it straightaway, we'd minimise the cost without disrupting the war machine.

My thoughts re war would be get our first axe, and if he can take the copper mine, declare at once. Shannon's plan to push out troops in Osaka sounds good.

Techwise, we are going to need courthouses very soon - so I think push for CoL after Priesthood.

Other thoughts?

 

[radiopill]

Good Job Shannon and nice score against the barbs!

Cranking up the war machine in Osaka - we need to prevent Izzy getting good use of that copper. I don't think she has other copper, or we might have seen axemen with that settler that came south, not archers, though this is not certain. If in the process of preventing her from using the copper, we can steal a worker as well, so much the better. I think we should be trimming her wings sooner rather than later. An Izzy without metal will be much less a headache that an Izzy with metal.

I also think, we should go asap in war against Izzy, and we should do like in SGOTM01, if we see a worker starting a mine on the copper, we should declare and capture it!

Techwise, we are going to need courthouses very soon - so I think push for CoL after Priesthood.

I agree, but we also need alphabet, if we want to extort some tech from Izzy...

 

[Frederiksberg]

Nice turn set! We have Iron online in 3 turns!! I think Gyathaar put it there to avoid that many teams get knocked out early by barbs. Only drawback is that it may help some of the other teams more than it helps us - particularly if they have neglected military in the start of the game and built city improvements instead. Right now I would like to be able to trade our settler for a granary in Osaka!

I agree that we should attack Isabella soon to avoid her mining the copper. But I don't see any attack coming within the next 10 turns so maybe we should sign open borders and do some spying in preparation for the attack. It would be nice to know where she has metals and if they are already mined.

When Polytheism is discovered we could start building the Parthenon in Kyoto and push all overflow from whipping into this project. If we get it - fine, we can use the 50% GP birth rate. If not - also fine, we get some cash.

Since we plan to go to war soon my guess is that researching CoL first rather than Monarchy is the better plan. When we capture a city that is worth keeping we have the 4 cities needed to build the palace and we would like to be able to build courthouses in Kyoto and Tokyo as soon as the Place move is completed. But it all depends on the timing. If the war draws out and we don't get any cities worth keeping Monarchy first could become the right choice. AH would be nice to have for building pastures on the cow and sheep tiles and I think we should keep this in mind and switch if and when it fits in our other plans (i.e. lower priority for AH).

Alphabet is also nice, but if we are alone on this continent with Isabella we may not get much out of her. I think we should do some scouting to the north before we decide on going for this and I would currently give it a lower priority than CoL and Monarchy.

 

[BSouder]

OK, I have the save and will play in 1 hour...just kidding. I could play in about 15 hours from now but probably will wait another 24 past that to allow for more dicussion.

My thoughts on the current situation...

I would really like to get a coastal city on Osaka's landmass so we can get a galley or workboat there in the near future to scout. We will also need it eventually to connect the halves of our empire for trade routes. I wouldn't mind seeing our settler put to that use. There's a pretty good spot 5W 1S of Osaka that would get clams, a forest grassland hill and a couple of forests pre-culture expansion and a second iron source another hill and a river to farm once culture expands. Short-term it would have decent growth and some production and long-term it would be a nice coastal production center for building galleons.

Another possibility is to save the settler until we likely raze Izzy's copper city and settle more where we want. I doubt her city is in a very good spot.

As for the war with Izzy I think we should camp some troops just off the copper and wait to poach a worker and use that as the trigger to actually declare. But, generally we need to push her back soon to hopefully deny her metals.

For tech pathing, I am torn between beelining for CoL as fast as possible and diverting to pick up Alphabet in case we can extort anything from Izzy.

 

[ShannonCT]

OK, I have the save and will play in 1 hour...just kidding. I could play in about 15 hours from now but probably will wait another 24 past that to allow for more dicussion.

My thoughts on the current situation...

I would really like to get a coastal city on Osaka's landmass so we can get a galley or workboat there in the near future to scout. We will also need it eventually to connect the halves of our empire for trade routes. I wouldn't mind seeing our settler put to that use. There's a pretty good spot 5W 1S of Osaka that would get clams, a forest grassland hill and a couple of forests pre-culture expansion and a second iron source another hill and a river to farm once culture expands. Short-term it would have decent growth and some production and long-term it would be a nice coastal production center for building galleons.

Another possibility is to save the settler until we likely raze Izzy's copper city and settle more where we want. I doubt her city is in a very good spot.

I was thinking about the tile 5W2S of Osaka, on the forested hill. On the plus side, this tile would be more defensible, get access to more production right away, could pick up wheat on its first culture expansion, and would have a bigger fog-busting footprint with the second hill to the south. On the minus side, it would waste a forest and a minable hill and wouldn't grow as fast as a city with clams in its initial borders. I think if we build anything in the south (I was also looking at 4S1W or 4S5W), it will help with fog-busting but would be a less desirable place for the palace since our rivals seem to be to the north. Osaka seems like it will still be the best place for the palace given its big production and money prospects and given that Issy's cities to the north and cities we could build in the south could provide a nice core around Osaka.

So, I am in favor of destroying or crippling Issy before using the settler unless the settler can give us fairly immediate help in the war. Using the settler and then fighting Issy for 20+ turns will cause a big hit to our research.

As for the war with Izzy I think we should camp some troops just off the copper and wait to poach a worker and use that as the trigger to actually declare. But, generally we need to push her back soon to hopefully deny her metals.

Definitely, another worker would be a big help. I wouldn't be surprised if we send units over there now, that we would find a worker hooking up the copper. The archer with Combat I and Cover would have a good chance of killing any archer that is guarding the worker. Maybe send a Cover warrior also.

For tech pathing, I am torn between beelining for CoL as fast as possible and diverting to pick up Alphabet in case we can extort anything from Izzy.

I think any tech we could pick up from Issy would be something we dont want (meditation) or something that could be reasearched quite cheaply (agriculture, AH, masonry). I think the value of Alphabet is quite low when you know only 1 rival. It seems that by the time we could finish Alphabet, we would be ready to move the palace and could really use courthouses in the islands.

 

[BSouder]

I think any tech we could pick up from Issy would be something we dont want (meditation) or something that could be reasearched quite cheaply (agriculture, AH, masonry).

True, but cheaply still takes time. One of the things that I think hurt us last game was that for the early and middle part of the game we forgot one very important point...the objective isn't necessarily just to win the game but to win the competition. That really means that every single turn saved is important. Now may not be the time to divert to Alphabet but in general letting the AI do some of our research for us is a way to gain some turns.

 

[Frederiksberg]

So, I am in favor of destroying or crippling Issy before using the settler unless the settler can give us fairly immediate help in the war. Using the settler and then fighting Issy for 20+ turns will cause a big hit to our research.

I tend to agree with this. We may want to capture our 4th city. If we do that we should start building the palace in Osaka soon after and wait with capturing or settling any more cities until the palace has been moved. If - on the other hand - we settle now we could be in a dilemma when we capture a nice 5th city we'd like to keep but since the palace has not been moved yet the extra city will severely impact our maintenance costs. Also remember that the perfect timing would be moving palace to Osaka when we are ready to whip courthouses in Kyoto and Tokyo.

Definitely, another worker would be a big help. I wouldn't be surprised if we send units over there now, that we would find a worker hooking up the copper. The archer with Combat I and Cover would have a good chance of killing any archer that is guarding the worker. Maybe send a Cover warrior also

.

I really hate declaring war without knowledge of the enemy land and strength but I have to agree that we must prevent Isabella from hooking copper at all costs. If there turns out to be no worker mining the copper I still think we should go for open borders and do some scouting of the spanish land. Building a mine and a road will take close to 10 turns so we would still be able to declare war and pillage the mine before the copper is put to any use. If Izzy is indeed doing some copper mining I suggest that we wait until the mine is done before we attack. The worker will definetely stay there and start building a road as well and by waiting with the attack we gain time for our preparations and might even be able to have an axeman ready to do the dirty deed.

I think any tech we could pick up from Issy would be something we dont want (meditation) or something that could be reasearched quite cheaply (agriculture, AH, masonry). I think the value of Alphabet is quite low when you know only 1 rival. It seems that by the time we could finish Alphabet, we would be ready to move the palace and could really use courthouses in the islands.

Fully agree - Alphabet is too expensive when we only have one opponent to trade techs with. And it doesn't help us to get closer to Astronomy either.

 

[BSouder]

The worker will definetely stay there and start building a road as well and by waiting with the attack we gain time for our preparations and might even be able to have an axeman ready to do the dirty deed.

Actually, I think WE already built a road on the copper in preperation for settling there.

Turn 9 (1360BC) Archer and worker move to copper. Kyoto grows to pop5 and whips galley. Working 3 seafood to get to happiness limit (no scientists).

Turn 10 (1330BC) Archer defeats barb archer (upgrade to City Garrison II). Settler in Kyoto sets sail. Worker starts road on copper.

It was 2 turns later that we discovered iron, but even if we then abandoned the road Izzy is only 1 turn from finishing the road. So, we really need to grab the worker as he is mining or the turn he finishes and then pillage.

 

[Frederiksberg]

True, but cheaply still takes time. One of the things that I think hurt us last game was that for the early and middle part of the game we forgot one very important point...the objective isn't necessarily just to win the game but to win the competition. That really means that every single turn saved is important. Now may not be the time to divert to Alphabet but in general letting the AI do some of our research for us is a way to gain some turns.

Regarding SGOTM1 I think you're right that we did not pay enough attention to diplomacy and in particular to tech trading. I seem to recall a couple of occasions where we could have traded for techs instead of researching them ourselves. I'm for instance pretty sure that we didn't try to extort techs from the Russians before finishing them off. But our mistake was not to research Alphabet too late but rather to pass on some of the opportunities for trading techs. We didn't really plan our research path with trading in mind either. So IMO Alphabet should be on our list of desired techs but not until we have more trading partners.

 

[Frederiksberg]

Actually, I think WE already built a road on the copper in preperation for settling there.

It was 2 turns later that we discovered iron, but even if we then abandoned the road Izzy is only 1 turn from finishing the road. So, we really need to grab the worker as he is mining or the turn he finishes and then pillage.

She is stealing our road as well . I guess we can't risk open borders then. I still think that we should attack as late as we can without allowing Izzy to use the copper.

 

[KingdomBrunel]

She is stealing our road as well . I guess we can't risk open borders then. I still think that we should attack as late as we can without allowing Izzy to use the copper.

Agree with that - even if we see her complete her mine, we could let things go a few turns before declaring war - she won't have had time to finish a metal unit. I'm assuming here that if you start something with a resource, but lose it halfway through the build that you can't finish it. Is that right?

 

[Frederiksberg]

Agree with that - even if we see her complete her mine, we could let things go a few turns before declaring war - she won't have had time to finish a metal unit. I'm assuming here that if you start something with a resource, but lose it halfway through the build that you can't finish it. Is that right?

If we wait that long we may not be able to capture the worker since it will move. An extra worker is a nice bonus and I think we should go for the capture.

 

[ShannonCT]

Actually, I think WE already built a road on the copper in preperation for settling there.

It was 2 turns later that we discovered iron, but even if we then abandoned the road Izzy is only 1 turn from finishing the road. So, we really need to grab the worker as he is mining or the turn he finishes and then pillage.

I should have clarfied this point. I am pretty sure I put in 2 turns of road building on the copper. When I saw iron in our capital I sent the worker back. So the road should be 2 turns to completion (4 turns for a desert road I think). We should really attack any worker before he finishes both road and mine, but letting him finish the mine, capturing him, and then sitting on that square will save us the work later and still prevent that city (Cordoba?) from using the hammers. If we let Issy have copper for even one turn, she could start whipping axemen.

 

[ShannonCT]

I tend to agree with this. We may want to capture our 4th city. If we do that we should start building the palace in Osaka soon after and wait with capturing or settling any more cities until the palace has been moved. If - on the other hand - we settle now we could be in a dilemma when we capture a nice 5th city we'd like to keep but since the palace has not been moved yet the extra city will severely impact our maintenance costs. Also remember that the perfect timing would be moving palace to Osaka when we are ready to whip courthouses in Kyoto and Tokyo.

It would be nice if we could build all of the units in Osaka that we need to finish off Issy before we switch to palace production, even if that means having to pay for a couple captured cities for a few turns. Once Issy knows we're going for her, she's going to beeline for Feudalism and Longbowmen. When we send that last unit off for the death blow, we can start the palace in Osaka and there will be several turns before we get those last units up north to capture/destroy her last city and several more turns before any captured city comes out of revolt, so that we should be able to time the palace to avoid high maintenance on the continent. We will really need to max out research in the Tokyo and Kyoto and beeline for COL to get them courthouses in time.