Maybe the regular mystics beelined for archery because of the raging barbs, and put off meditation. If those scouts came from two different cities, then they are a lot closer together than ours. Well, it should be easy to check how many cities Issy has now in the diplomacy screen. If she has 2 cities by turn 39, I guess everyone got the extra settler. In several test games, no AI settled a second city by turn 39.
We can't check the diplomacy screen until we have something to trade can we? With writing we'll be able to offer open borders if we want to and so be able to open the diplo screen, or if we get connected to her by roads, the same thing will happen to allow trading resources. Until then you can't offer to trade, and open the diplo screen to see a list of cities that she might or might ont be willing to trade. Or does the fact that we can't open the diplo screen indicate that she doesn't have any cities (non-captial) to trade? But we do, so why can't we open it? I think we're going to need writing to see it.
ShannonCT said:
I think the second boat should be used for more food. The third and fourth will come soon after with slavery. We can also start prebuilding a warrior in Kyoto but after a 2 pop whip, the unhappiness will be gone for a few turns anyway.
We can't check the diplomacy screen until we have something to trade can we? With writing we'll be able to offer open borders if we want to and so be able to open the diplo screen, or if we get connected to her by roads, the same thing will happen to allow trading resources. Until then you can't offer to trade, and open the diplo screen to see a list of cities that she might or might ont be willing to trade. Or does the fact that we can't open the diplo screen indicate that she doesn't have any cities (non-captial) to trade? But we do, so why can't we open it? I think we're going to need writing to see it.
Yes, you are right. Even if she had two cities, we wouldn't be able to open the diplo screen. We'll have to get writing first. I guess we'll have to find the answer through scouting.
Those little islands north of Kyoto look very small indeed, two tiles for the cow island and one tile for the stone island. We'd would have to settle both islands to get both resources (I think). I can't see this being worth a settler unless there are some nice seafood resources up there that could make another good science city. If we eventually move our palace, any more cities by Kyoto are going to cost us a lot.
You're right. When I first saw them I thought there was only one sea tile between the two islands which would have allowed one city to the east of the cowas to get both, but there is two sea tiles. We'd need two cities to get both cows and stone in city fat crosses. Let's see what the work boat explorer reveals - maybe there are other sea resources up there for another science city, as you say. If so, then it might be worth sending at least one up there. Also we want to know if there is connection to a continent with a civ on it that way.
Talking of science and Kyoto. Another reason why we want writing as soon as we can after BW is the great scientists we'll get get from those specialists. With 2 science specialists, it will be only 25 turns to a great scientist in Kyoto. We could probably use him for an academy I guess. Then after that it's only 90 more turns to a second great scientist with just those two specialists and nothing else.
I first saw a spanish scout in my turnset south of where the settler was after two turns west of where Osaka is now. The following turn I saw a second spansih scout by the river south EAST of where Osaka is now. I concluded that Madrid is to the south or south west of Osaka. But what if Isabella has two cities? (See my post above) There might be two Spanish cities to the south of us there, one south west and the other south east. I'm fairly sure Isabella did not come from the north. It is possible, if she has two cities, that one is to the south west of Osaka, and the other is to the east, but this pure guesswork.
Another possibility occurred to me, that our map designer is cunning (we know he is) and he put scouts from other civs at varioius places on the map not necessarily right next to their settler, or capital. Allowing for that possibility, Madrid could be anywhere on the planet. I'd be looking south of us first though, and we haven't got long to look before barbarians come upon us.
I've been playing with the world builder and fighting raging barbarians and talking to aggressive AI's since I've never actually played a game with those settings before. A lot seems to depend on luck with barbarians. If you have some unlucky battles, you can get overrun, but if you get lucky, that helps a lot. Even in between the extremes, if you lose units regularly to barbarians (And there enough of them!) then you are tied down producing more military units to replace the killed ones. IF you can get ahead of them just a little bit (like you don't have to replace some because of lucky battles), then you can concentrate on building something else, like barracks, a library, or even a settler (gasp!)
As for us in this game, once we have some archers hanging around, chopping a barracks might be a good idea. The worker can make progress even if it's one turn at a time, before having to return to the city to shelter from barbarians, he can then go out again and take up where he left off before the barbarian came.
I discovered in my practice how true it is that the gold hill is much easier to defend than the mine on the plain!
Metal also helps. If you have copper handy when you get to BW, you can eat barbarians alive with axemen. If not, you better hope you find some iron close by when you get IW.
I've been playing with the world builder and fighting raging barbarians and talking to aggressive AI's since I've never actually played a game with those settings before. A lot seems to depend on luck with barbarians. If you have some unlucky battles, you can get overrun, but if you get lucky, that helps a lot. Even in between the extremes, if you lose units regularly to barbarians (And there enough of them!) then you are tied down producing more military units to replace the killed ones. IF you can get ahead of them just a little bit (like you don't have to replace some because of lucky battles), then you can concentrate on building something else, like barracks, a library, or even a settler (gasp!)
Metal also helps. If you have copper handy when you get to BW, you can eat barbarians alive with axemen. If not, you better hope you find some iron close by when you get IW.
I think we need to reduce the luck factor as much as possible. This means that we take advantage of the defensive bonuses offered by the terrain and put out units on hills and in forrests. Keeping them fortified for 5 turns or more gives a further defensive bonus. In case of the first two archers I suggest that we move the first archer to the gold mine and keep him fortified there. When he gets promotions we select the hills defense. The 2nd archer we keep fortified in Osaka and he is given city defender promotions. 3rd archer we can place on a hill or in forrest and let him intercept barbs coming in direction of our gems mine. If we give him combat one, cover and extra first strikes he could become an archer killer that is he could be used for offense against barb archers invading the gems mine. Normally we won't like to attack any barb archers because it's a 50-50 battle. It's much better to let the barbs attack our fortified units. As soon as our hills archer gets some promotions he will be almost impossible to defeat by barb archers even when they come in pairs as I have seen many times in my test games.
I would also like to go for writing after BW due to the many benefits of a library in Kyoto. Only problem is that we cannot allow too big a delay before we hook a metal. In many of my test games I saw barb axemen pretty early and we really need some axemen of our own to handle these guys. But maybe we can coordinate research and production in such a way that we have a settler ready when IW is done?
I think the second boat should be used for more food. The third and fourth will come soon after with slavery. We can also start prebuilding a warrior in Kyoto but after a 2 pop whip, the unhappiness will be gone for a few turns anyway.
Sounds good to me. Does pop increase also increase maintenance in Kyoto?
ShannonCT said:
As far as pottery->writing or IW first (if we see no copper), neither metal will be much good to us until we can actually build a settler and defend two cities. With all the science we'll be getting with the library and scientists in Kyoto and the mines in Osaka, we can probably get IW 10 turns after writing. I think we can be quite sure of finding at least two metals on a continent of this size. 3 or 4 is more likely. A random, standard-size fractal map has 10-11 irons and 6 coppers. But if we do spot copper, how soon before we can safely send out a settler?
It's tempting to go for writing first due to the increased tech rate and the ability to run scientists. Lets hope we do have copper nearby. When we get our 2nd archer we could try to push our Osaka warrior to the north to explore the immediate surroundings up there. Knowledge of the land is really vital! If we do spot copper I guess we need an escort of two archers to get the settler safely there. That means we need to have at least 4 archers and a settler before we can realisticly think about founding our 3rd city.
ShannonCT said:
I think working both mines now would be a good idea. Our population is growing so slowly right now, we might as well stagnate and take the extra hammer and money. Getting to pop 3 and working the oasis isn't such a big help anyway. It means 1 surplus food that helps get us to pop 4 in a lot of turns or build a settler a little faster, and 2 more GPT, 1 of which will be lost to maintenance. We can work the oasis and gems and grow in 10-11 turns after we feel a little safer.
I'm OK with this as well. We need to focus on hammers for producing archers until we have control over the barbs.
ShannonCT said:
How about chopping after we get BW? Do we want to save any of those forests in our borders for defense? Do we want to wait for the chopping bonus we'll get from Mathematics?
If we need to act fast I wouldn't hesitate to chop the settler - or maybe our first axeman. Speed is essential in order to get ahead of the barbs. I would probaly chop a forrest close to Osaka and keep the forrests a little further away for defensive purposes.
You're right. When I first saw them I thought there was only one sea tile between the two islands which would have allowed one city to the east of the cowas to get both, but there is two sea tiles. We'd need two cities to get both cows and stone in city fat crosses. Let's see what the work boat explorer reveals - maybe there are other sea resources up there for another science city, as you say. If so, then it might be worth sending at least one up there. Also we want to know if there is connection to a continent with a civ on it that way.
Talking of science and Kyoto. Another reason why we want writing as soon as we can after BW is the great scientists we'll get get from those specialists. With 2 science specialists, it will be only 25 turns to a great scientist in Kyoto. We could probably use him for an academy I guess. Then after that it's only 90 more turns to a second great scientist with just those two specialists and nothing else.
I think we would need two cities to hook up both resources even if the borders one one city enveloped both resources because of the trade route problem. I've encountered this situation in another game before. To get a resource on an island, you must have a city on that island. If we build another city near Kyoto, it better be pretty special since it will cost us a lot when we move our palace.
Isn't it only 50 more turn until the second great scientist? The second one should come with 300 GPPs, the third at 450, correct? We use the first one for the academy. The second could be used for mathematics for better chopping, or as a super scientist which would give us 1 hammer and 10.25 beakers (6*1.75) with the 75% bonus. The third could be saved for astronomy.
The task for my turnset:
-produce 2 Workboats with the whip in Kyoto
-try to locate Madrid and copper, with Woody
-MM Osaka for emphasize production
-after BW -> -> Writing
-build a least 2 archers in Osaka, then barracks I think
-survive to the raging babrbs
Kyoto wont have any maintenance until we start getting more cities and the empire size penalty kicks in.
Frederiksberg said:
It's tempting to go for writing first due to the increased tech rate and the ability to run scientists. Lets hope we do have copper nearby. When we get our 2nd archer we could try to push our Osaka warrior to the north to explore the immediate surroundings up there. Knowledge of the land is really vital! If we do spot copper I guess we need an escort of two archers to get the settler safely there. That means we need to have at least 4 archers and a settler before we can realisticly think about founding our 3rd city.
If we need to act fast I wouldn't hesitate to chop the settler - or maybe our first axeman. Speed is essential in order to get ahead of the barbs. I would probaly chop a forrest close to Osaka and keep the forrests a little further away for defensive purposes.
So we could have our fast warrior (Woody) fortify on the forest hill 4S/1W of Osaka after he scouts Issy. Our wimpy warrior fortify in a forest or forest hill in the north after scouting up there, 1st and second archer in Osaka and the gold hill, and the 3rd archer in the forest east of the gems, with the ability to attack anything that steps on the gems. That's a pretty respectable perimeter. Just a tactical point: the archer we station on the gold hill or the forest should probably be brought back to Osaka for one turn if there's nothing coming its way but a barb or barbs attacking from another direction, just for insurance. One bad roll of the dice could be the end. So we should have a road wherever we station an archer.
With a good perimeter set up, the worker will have a lot easier time chopping.
Frederiksberg said:
I would also like to go for writing after BW due to the many benefits of a library in Kyoto. Only problem is that we cannot allow too big a delay before we hook a metal. In many of my test games I saw barb axemen pretty early and we really need some axemen of our own to handle these guys. But maybe we can coordinate research and production in such a way that we have a settler ready when IW is done?
Preturn:
MM osaka
Queued a warrior in kyoto's prod, so I won't forget to whip... the tyrant is back!
(1) Bear in sight, I move woody
(2)Keep running boy, teddy won't catch you!
The worker start to road the mine
(3) First archer, go to the gold mine
(4)Hinduism FIDAL
(5) Zzzzzz
(6) 2nd WB finished, go for the crab, start warrior
woody was attacked by a wolf, and he really need rest...
(7) First Barb, yeah "come on punk, make my day..."
BW in, start on pottery.
(8)One more barb, "so guys you need your buddies, you're a chicken..."
The first barb go on the gems of course, I wasn't sure if I can't take it with the archer on the hill so, I let him alone (but I didn't move the archer in the city, sorry Shannon I read your advice to late).
I hired a citizen, so I keep some hammer to finish the archer in 1 turn
(9)Gems has been pillaged, and we're surrounded by 2 barbs now
As the archer has been finished, I switch to Slavery
(10) Barbs 0 - Archers 1
The barbs on the gems also pillaged the road, and that pissed me off, so I attack with our brand new archer.
Barbs 0 - Archers 2 "Qui s'y frotte, s'y pique!"
In kyoto, I used the whipping fatality of Shannon... for the workboats
Oh, I completely forgot, I was so "petrified" by the barbs, that I didn't notice this:
and this:
2 copper
(11) 3rd WB start scouting
(12)4th WB go for the fish
(13) Barb again (NE of osaka's border), I give our archer combat1, and move it in the forest next to the barb but there's a river between them.
The cow island is really nice, indeed it's more a clam island...
(14)Barbs 0 - Archer 3
I caught him in the open...
Kyoto is unhappy, so I hired 2 citizens, so I stop the growth, and I hastened the production of the warrior.
(15) Zzzzzzz
(16) 3 more barbs in the same time... it's going to be painfull...
(17)Barbs 0 - Archers 4 Oh yeah...
Kyoto's warrior in da house, happiness limit reach, so I decide to stop the growth, with the prod of a settler.
Osaka, one more archer, start a barracks
(18) Barbs 0 - Archers 5
Pottery finished, start Writing
Archer on the hill receive hill defense promotion
(19)Zzzzzzzzzzzzz
(20) Barbs 0 - Archers 6
Some screenshots:
Spoiler:
The über boring turnlog:
Spoiler:
Here is your Session Turn Log from 2830 BC to 2230 BC:
Turn 41, 2770 BC: You have trained a Archer in Osaka. Work has now begun on a Archer.
Turn 42, 2740 BC: Hinduism has been founded in a distant land!
Turn 44, 2680 BC: You have trained a Work Boat in Kyoto. Work has now begun on a Warrior.
Turn 46, 2620 BC: You have discovered Bronze Working!
Turn 46, 2620 BC: Barbarian's Wolf (1.00) vs Memphis Blues's Warrior (2.60)
Turn 46, 2620 BC: Combat Odds: 0.7%
Turn 46, 2620 BC: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 46, 2620 BC: (Animal Combat: +20%)
Turn 46, 2620 BC: (Plot Defense: +25%)
Turn 46, 2620 BC: Barbarian's Wolf is hit for 32 (68/100HP)
Turn 46, 2620 BC: Memphis Blues's Warrior is hit for 12 (72/100HP)
Turn 46, 2620 BC: Memphis Blues's Warrior is hit for 12 (60/100HP)
Turn 46, 2620 BC: Barbarian's Wolf is hit for 32 (36/100HP)
Turn 46, 2620 BC: Barbarian's Wolf is hit for 32 (4/100HP)
Turn 46, 2620 BC: Memphis Blues's Warrior is hit for 12 (48/100HP)
Turn 46, 2620 BC: Barbarian's Wolf is hit for 32 (0/100HP)
Turn 46, 2620 BC: Memphis Blues's Warrior has defeated Barbarian's Wolf!
Turn 48, 2560 BC: The revolution has begun!!!
Turn 48, 2560 BC: Memphis Blues adopts Slavery!
Turn 48, 2560 BC: The anarchy is over! Your government is re-established.
Turn 48, 2560 BC: Barbarian's Warrior (2.00) vs Memphis Blues's Archer (5.25)
Turn 48, 2560 BC: Combat Odds: 0.0%
Turn 48, 2560 BC: (Plot Defense: +25%)
Turn 48, 2560 BC: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 48, 2560 BC: (Hills: +25%)
Turn 48, 2560 BC: Memphis Blues's Archer is hit for 12 (88/100HP)
Turn 48, 2560 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 31 (69/100HP)
Turn 48, 2560 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 31 (38/100HP)
Turn 48, 2560 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 31 (7/100HP)
Turn 48, 2560 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 31 (0/100HP)
Turn 48, 2560 BC: Memphis Blues's Archer has defeated Barbarian's Warrior!
Turn 49, 2530 BC: Memphis Blues's Archer (3.00) vs Barbarian's Warrior (2.00)
Turn 49, 2530 BC: Combat Odds: 92.7%
Turn 49, 2530 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 24 (76/100HP)
Turn 49, 2530 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 24 (52/100HP)
Turn 49, 2530 BC: Memphis Blues's Archer is hit for 16 (84/100HP)
Turn 49, 2530 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 24 (28/100HP)
Turn 49, 2530 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 24 (4/100HP)
Turn 49, 2530 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 24 (0/100HP)
Turn 49, 2530 BC: Memphis Blues's Archer has defeated Barbarian's Warrior!
Turn 49, 2530 BC: You have trained a Work Boat in Kyoto. Work has now begun on a Work Boat.
Turn 50, 2500 BC: You have trained a Work Boat in Kyoto. Work has now begun on a Warrior.
Turn 53, 2410 BC: Memphis Blues's Archer (3.30) vs Barbarian's Warrior (2.00)
Turn 53, 2410 BC: Combat Odds: 97.4%
Turn 53, 2410 BC: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 53, 2410 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 25 (75/100HP)
Turn 53, 2410 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 25 (50/100HP)
Turn 53, 2410 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 25 (25/100HP)
Turn 53, 2410 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 25 (0/100HP)
Turn 53, 2410 BC: Memphis Blues's Archer has defeated Barbarian's Warrior!
Turn 55, 2350 BC: Barbarian's Warrior (2.00) vs Memphis Blues's Archer (4.05)
Turn 55, 2350 BC: Combat Odds: 0.5%
Turn 55, 2350 BC: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 55, 2350 BC: (River Attack: +25%)
Turn 55, 2350 BC: Memphis Blues's Archer is hit for 14 (86/100HP)
Turn 55, 2350 BC: Memphis Blues's Archer is hit for 14 (72/100HP)
Turn 55, 2350 BC: Memphis Blues's Archer is hit for 14 (58/100HP)
Turn 55, 2350 BC: Memphis Blues's Archer is hit for 14 (44/100HP)
Turn 55, 2350 BC: Memphis Blues's Archer is hit for 14 (30/100HP)
Turn 55, 2350 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 28 (72/100HP)
Turn 55, 2350 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 28 (44/100HP)
Turn 55, 2350 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 28 (16/100HP)
Turn 55, 2350 BC: Memphis Blues's Archer is hit for 14 (16/100HP)
Turn 55, 2350 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 28 (0/100HP)
Turn 55, 2350 BC: Memphis Blues's Archer has defeated Barbarian's Warrior!
Turn 56, 2320 BC: The enemy has been spotted near Osaka!
Turn 56, 2320 BC: You have discovered Pottery!
Turn 56, 2320 BC: Barbarian's Warrior (2.00) vs Memphis Blues's Archer (5.25)
Turn 56, 2320 BC: Combat Odds: 0.0%
Turn 56, 2320 BC: (Plot Defense: +25%)
Turn 56, 2320 BC: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 56, 2320 BC: (Hills: +25%)
Turn 56, 2320 BC: Memphis Blues's Archer is hit for 12 (88/100HP)
Turn 56, 2320 BC: Memphis Blues's Archer is hit for 12 (76/100HP)
Turn 56, 2320 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 31 (69/100HP)
Turn 56, 2320 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 31 (38/100HP)
Turn 56, 2320 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 31 (7/100HP)
Turn 56, 2320 BC: Memphis Blues's Archer is hit for 12 (64/100HP)
Turn 56, 2320 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 31 (0/100HP)
Turn 56, 2320 BC: Memphis Blues's Archer has defeated Barbarian's Warrior!
Turn 57, 2290 BC: The enemy has been spotted near Osaka!
Turn 58, 2260 BC: The enemy has been spotted near Osaka!
Turn 59, 2230 BC: The enemy has been spotted near Osaka!
Turn 59, 2230 BC: The enemy has been spotted near Osaka!
Turn 59, 2230 BC: Memphis Blues's Archer (3.00) vs Barbarian's Warrior (2.00)
Turn 59, 2230 BC: Combat Odds: 92.7%
Turn 59, 2230 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 24 (76/100HP)
Turn 59, 2230 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 24 (52/100HP)
Turn 59, 2230 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 24 (28/100HP)
Turn 59, 2230 BC: Memphis Blues's Archer is hit for 16 (84/100HP)
Turn 59, 2230 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 24 (4/100HP)
Turn 59, 2230 BC: Memphis Blues's Archer is hit for 16 (68/100HP)
Turn 59, 2230 BC: Memphis Blues's Archer is hit for 16 (52/100HP)
Turn 59, 2230 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 24 (0/100HP)
Turn 59, 2230 BC: Memphis Blues's Archer has defeated Barbarian's Warrior!
Turn 59, 2230 BC: Your Archer has destroyed a Warrior!
I guess that spike in CFR's culture means that they built the Henge or they founded Buddhism or Hinduism. Either way, it's a very different opening strategy. I see that we are tops in power right now.
So, where the heck is Issy? I guess there's still some land in the SE that she could be in. Or maybe Mad Prof was right about the extra scouts. We'll find out soon enough.
Good news about the copper. Now we get to pick which one we want. The one in the south looks a lot more productive and would be a good place to whip some axemen with all that food. But it is 7 tiles farther from Kyoto than Osaka is, so more maintenance. The copper in the east has pretty poor growth prospects until it can expand to get the fish (if we settled by that coastal corner). The maintenance would be the same as Osaka and the forest could be chopped for axemen. It would be nice to know where we want to attack first.
So, is Kyoto really isolated until astronomy? I can't tell from the screen shot. It looks like there are a couple more coastal tiles near the cows that need to be explored for us to be sure. I guess settling up there on cow island could be worth the extra maintenance considering all the food and the extra health to Kyoto. It has big science potential. But I dont think we need to build the settler just yet. We should let Kyoto grow to pop6 even though there will be two unhappy citizens, because we will need to whip 3 people to get the library right away (actually one or two turns after writing). But after that, we can finish the settler. Which brings us to ....
Sailing. Now that we dont need IW for a while, we could go for sailing to settle cow island and build a lighthouse in Kyoto for even better whipping. Cow city could use some help getting those resources improved faster.
I guess that spike in CFR's culture means that they built an obelisk or the Henge. It's hard to tell because the graph only connects the two save points and doesn't show us if there was a big spike on one turn.
They probably went for a "wood"henge so they can pop a great prophet, for a CS slingshot...
ShannonCT said:
So, where the heck is Issy? I guess there's still some land in the SE that she could be in. Or maybe Mad Prof was right about the extra scouts. We'll find out soon enough.
I hope MadP is wrong, otherwise we must have a lot of fugbuster, to prevent us of being submerged by barbs...
ShannonCT said:
Good news about the copper. Now we get to pick which one we want. The one in the south looks a lot more productive and would be a good place to whip some axemen with all that food. But it is 7 tiles farther from Kyoto than Osaka is, so more maintenance. The copper in the east has pretty poor growth prospects until it can expand to get the fish (if we settled by that coastal corner). The maintenance would be the same as Osaka and the forest could be chopped for axemen. It would be nice to know where we want to attack first.
I'd prefer the east site in the short term, but it's true it depends on where is Izzy...
ShannonCT said:
So, is Kyoto really isolated until astronomy? I can't tell from the screen shot. It looks like there are a couple more coastal tiles near the cows that need to be explored for us to be sure.
Yes, my mistakes, these 2 tiles must be explore to be sure...
ShannonCT said:
I guess settling up there on cow island could be worth the extra maintenance considering all the food and the extra health to Kyoto. It has big science potential. But I dont think we need to build the settler just yet. We should let Kyoto grow to pop6 even though there will be two unhappy citizens, because we will need to whip 3 people to get the library right away (actually one or two turns after writing). But after that, we can finish the settler. Which brings us to ....
Sailing. Now that we dont need IW for a while, we could go for sailing to settle cow island and build a lighthouse in Kyoto for even better whipping. Cow city could use some help getting those resources improved faster.
Yes, we can switch to another workboat, when the people will forget about my alleged cruel oppression... It was in my turn 10, so in 5 turns they'll probably had forgotten that a certain Shannon has said that we must spank them harder to have 2 boats instead of one... .
So, where the heck is Issy? I guess there's still some land in the SE that she could be in. Or maybe Mad Prof was right about the extra scouts. We'll find out soon enough.
That's what I am wondering too. I really am dubious that there is enough land hidden to the SE that we wouldn't have seen even a hint of a cultural border though. Unless of course there is a land bridge to another continent but that would have meant some REALLY fast scouting for the scout to have been were we first saw it when we saw it. All we can do is keep scouting though.
Speaking of scouting, I am still hopeful we find another landmass with that workboat. In addition to the 2 squares radiopill pointed out, there is still a chance of a connection from the east side of the stone island.
For hooking up copper, I think our best short term decision is to settle on the desert square 1 SW of the eastern copper source. That will give that city the copper mine and a plains hill as well as 2 floodplains for food. It would never been a great city location, but won't be terrible production and will get us copper quickly. It is also very close to Osaka so should be easy to defend compared to the other choices. The other viable choice for the eastern source would be to move to the coast but then you will miss either the fish or the copper until a cultural expansion and a city there without both will be struggling for it's early years.
The southern source of copper I don't see as an option right now. The road to connect it would really just be too long to reliably defend.
Speaking of scouting, I am still hopeful we find another landmass with that workboat. In addition to the 2 squares radiopill pointed out, there is still a chance of a connection from the east side of the stone island.
if you look on the other screenshot in my turnlog, you'll see that there's nothing east of the stone island, exept one more whale... meaning ocean.
BSouder said:
For hooking up copper, I think our best short term decision is to settle on the desert square 1 SW of the eastern copper source. That will give that city the copper mine and a plains hill as well as 2 floodplains for food. It would never been a great city location, but won't be terrible production and will get us copper quickly. It is also very close to Osaka so should be easy to defend compared to the other choices. The other viable choice for the eastern source would be to move to the coast but then you will miss either the fish or the copper until a cultural expansion and a city there without both will be struggling for it's early years.
The southern source of copper I don't see as an option right now. The road to connect it would really just be too long to reliably defend.
Here is a dot map, with your sugestion, and I think you're right,it's the best solution. This city would have food and production, and of course copper, plus there's one surprise tiles...
For hooking up copper, I think our best short term decision is to settle on the desert square 1 SW of the eastern copper source. That will give that city the copper mine and a plains hill as well as 2 floodplains for food. It would never been a great city location, but won't be terrible production and will get us copper quickly. It is also very close to Osaka so should be easy to defend compared to the other choices. The other viable choice for the eastern source would be to move to the coast but then you will miss either the fish or the copper until a cultural expansion and a city there without both will be struggling for it's early years.
The southern source of copper I don't see as an option right now. The road to connect it would really just be too long to reliably defend.
You're right, the southern source is untennable. I hadn't thought of the desert 1 SW of the copper. I got distracted by the stone and fish. Your spot would be especially nice with some farms on the flood plains and the plain. We could work 2 farmed FPs, 1 farmed plain, 1 mined plains hill, and a copper mine for 10 hammers, and 3 surplus food for whipping.
Oh yeah! That's a good score. May it get every better. Having that barbs score close to zero is a BIG bonus for getting us forward instead of running on the spot.
ShannonCT said:
So, where the heck is Issy? I guess there's still some land in the SE that she could be in. Or maybe Mad Prof was right about the extra scouts. We'll find out soon enough.
Just been having a look at the file. I'd be very surprised to find her south of where we can see down there. There isn't enough room. I suspect Gyathaar of trying to turn us in the wrong direction! If she's on our continent there, she's got to be north. And maybe she's not there. I hope she IS there somewhere though for two reasons - one is less barbarians on our continent, and two is we can reach her much sooner!
We need to get some copper hooked up absolutley as soon as we can safely get a settler and guards out. We will need metal when barb axmen show up, or the score will get ugly. I agree that sailing might be handy after writing, but I wouldn't delay IW too long either. I want to know where the iron is so we can put a settler by some!
I think the eastern copper is the one to go for. By the way, getting a settler out (if done safely) is also the best form of fog busting. Cultural borders from a city see further than one unit
Clams by that island north of Kyoto! Mmm. It's really tempting to put a settler on that island by the cows. I agree with ShannonCT though that we want the library ASAP which means we need to let Kyoto grow just a little so we can whip it sooner. Once those scientists come online, it really will crank up research a bit, which we want. With the two fish and two crabs developed by work boats, Kyoto can have an enourmous food surplus which means it recovers very fast from whipping, even with scientists in place.
Isn't it only 50 more turn until the second great scientist? The second one should come with 300 GPPs, the third at 450, correct? We use the first one for the academy. The second could be used for mathematics for better chopping, or as a super scientist which would give us 1 hammer and 10.25 beakers (6*1.75) with the 75% bonus. The third could be saved for astronomy.
Just a thought for consideration. If the worker does not have anything else to do for a turn, he could start some chops. That is, chop for a turn or two in a forest, then stop, and go somewhere else. This way, chopping will take less time later when we want it. You could even get a chop down to say 2 turns to go, so that in an emergency, or if we want to rush something later, it's really quick to get those extra hammers.
You'd have to watch you didn't finish the chop though. Careful! You'd also have to watch carefully for bararians and run for the city the instant you saw one. If the worker is not doing anything else though, it's time gained for no loss. If the worker has something else to do (like repairing a mine or something) then it's better to do that.
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It was in my turn 10, so in 5 turns they'll probably had forgotten that a certain Shannon has said that we must spank 
them harder to have 2 boats instead of one... 
if you look on the other screenshot in my turnlog, you'll see that there's nothing east of the stone island, exept one more whale... meaning ocean.
