SGOTM 02 - Murky Waters

Murky · Aug 18, 2006

Big Pig said:
That was my thought too. I'm going to pause for an hour to grab dinner and give any of the others a chance to comment. Then its war time

Sounds good.

EDIT: He'll trade any of them - at least they're all in white. I'll see if I can get anything useful (?HBR, IW) for CoL

IW is a higher priority than HBR but if you can get both go for it.

EDIT2: Isabella tells me she also has a catapult. Ho-ho-ho

Just one

?

edit: Just been thinking.

She probably has most of her units in Madrid so holding Barcelona will be tough. I would raze Toledo (it's poorly placed anyway) and reinforce Barcelona after it's captured. If it looks as though you will lose after she sends troops withdraw from Barcelona and try to get some kind of defensive advantage in the jungle.

johnpaulcain · Aug 18, 2006

Go for it! When do we get Alphabet? (Am I behind again?!)

Good luck, although I think it will be fine. We timed it just about right!

I am not fussed about what you trade or which city you go for.

Murky · Aug 18, 2006

I can imagine BP playing CIV with Bon Jovi in the background singing, "It's my life."

Big Pig · Aug 18, 2006

Ok - I'm going in

Big Pig · Aug 18, 2006

The newest members of the Glorious Japanese Empire!!!!!!!!!

Toledo......

and

Barcelona!!!!

at a cost of.......

No (yes, that's ZERO) Japanese units lost (so far.....!)

Debrief:
2 turns later:

declared on Isabella
Archer and spearman in Toledo taken out with no loss of hp. ~25 gold
Axeman and archer defeated in Barcelona for no loss of units - so we have 2 full strength axemen to defend Barca. ~130 gold. Tempted to rename the city Big Pigville in my honour, but resisted

Meanwhile, in other news:

Completed Palace in Osaka - economy breathed big sigh of relief!
Met Mansa Musa with galley. Needless to say he has lots of techs
swapped CoL with Bismark for IW and polyT. Iron in the grassland hill NW of Osaka!!!!

So, the big question: do we keep Toledo or raze it?
Position is not awful - it is close to the (new) capital so maintenance will be low and it shares the gems sheep and rice with Osaka - so we could grow it quite quickly. I'm tempted to keep it

Murky said:
I can imagine BP playing CIV with Bon Jovi in the background singing, "It's my life."

Well, those boys from New Jersey certainly helped!

Murky · Aug 18, 2006

Nice.

It’s probably not a good thing that Mansa and Bismark share a religion.

We definitely need to work on catching up in techs. No more slider to 0 to upgrade units until Samurai.

Keep Toledo if you like but it would have been better 1nw.

Big Pig · Aug 18, 2006

Murky said:
Probably not a good thing that Mansa and Bismark share a religion.

It might spread to Kyoto, so we can adopt it. I doubt we're going to be on Isabella's Xmas card list no matter what religion we adopt

Murky said:
We definately need to work on catching up in techs. No more slider to 0 to upgrade units please

Fortunately, we're fresh out of eligible warriors anyway

I'm probably going to leave it there for tonight and finsh up in the morning. Thoughts and arguements for keeping/razing Toledo please (remember Osaka is now the capital so maintenace will not be huge)

Murky · Aug 18, 2006

My guess is that Mansa and Bismark share the same continent which may become our next target after Isabella.

cas · Aug 18, 2006

Murky said:
We definitely need to work on catching up in techs. No more slider to 0 to upgrade units until Samurai.

Samurai are going to be almost worthless by the time we get them.

Murky said:
My guess is that Mansa and Bismark share the same continent which may become our next target after Isabella.

Curious how you're thinking of doing that since they are going to be ahead in tech (at least longbows+) by the time we can build any army capable of taking their cities. I'm not a conquest player, but I don't see how we can win war against those two anytime soon.

cas

Mîtiu Ioan · Aug 18, 2006

Superb !!! :goodjob:

Big Pig said:
I'm probably going to leave it there for tonight and finsh up in the morning. Thoughts and arguements for keeping/razing Toledo please (remember Osaka is now the capital so maintenace will not be huge)

I'm not in favor to keep Toledo, but I'm sure that will be nice to have one more city ... :rolleyes:

It may divert some very important unit to defend it ( or not ? ) and in long term ... I don't belive that this city will be too usefull. Honestly ... I have no clear ideea - 60% to raze it, 40% to keep it ... :confused:

BTW - what improvement are built in Barcelona ?

Big Pig · Aug 19, 2006

Game submitted - Rather a busy turn!

War News

No more new cities, but things are looking good
So far the score is: 4 archers, 1 axeman, 1 spearman 2HAs and 2 workers lost by Isabella at the cost of 1 archer for us
We have a stack of 3 axemen and 1 spearman heading towards Madrid with a view to pillaging everything in sight (esp copper and horses)
We have 3 axemen and 1 spearman NE of Coppertown, heading for Cordoba (NB Isabella has a HA near these units)
Defence in frontline cities looks reasonably secure: 2 axemen in Barca, 1 archer and 1 spearman in Coppertown
It should be about 10 turns by now so Isabella should be willing to come to the table soon. However I think we have her on the ropes and should press our advantage, especially with a view to pillaging her copper and horses
Best guess as Isa's defenders: Seville - 1 axeman, 2 archers (we ambushed the triple CG archer out in the open tho'!!), maybe 1 HA being built; Cordoba: 1 spearman, 1 or 2 archers; Madrid: no idea!! She also has 1 catapult next to our stack approaching Madrid, 1 HA NE of Coppertown and 4 (currently empty) galleys on the coast
Not much barb activity - killed 4 archers and warrior I think. No axemen thankfully. There is a barb archer W of Osaka

World News

Met Kublai Khan. He's already pissed with us as we've traded with his worst enemy Mansa
Traded a few techs with Bismark and Mansa (see below)
Galley exploration postponed as galley had to return to ferry worker to Cow Island. Galley now heading back to Germany, laden with 2 scouts for land exploration
OB with Mansa and Bismark
Trade (clams for cow) with Bismark cancelled automatically when the palace moved to Osaka. Doesn't matter as we shall soon be producing fresh beef in Cow Island
Great Lib built IAFL

Science News:

Tech trading with Mansa and Bismark. Had to trade away CoL and MC but gained: IW, polyT, Monarchy, Maths, Masonry (I gave up waiting for that G Prophet....), Alphabet (hope you're happy JP ) and currency
Currently about 5 turns from construction
We still lag way behind Mansa and Bismark (who have feudalism, literature, philosophy etc) but seem on parity with KK (he has HBR and monoT, we have alpha and ?CoL, ?MC

Religious News:

Hinduism has spread to Kyoto. KK is Hindu and has the Holy City
We now own the Jewish Holy City (Barca)

Home News:

We have changed civics to Hered Rule for extra happies
Palace now in Osaka, CHs in Cow Island, Kyoto and Coppertown
Cow Island should be ready to whip a library in the next 3 or 4 turns (I but 1 pop as a 1h citizen to speed this up)
Recent whips in Kyoto and Coppertown

Spoiler Turn log :

nfora · Aug 19, 2006

We could really use a great prophet or two for some shrines as needed in the former spanish cities. If I remember correctly she had three holy cities.... if anything could revitalize our economy... those could.

Big Pig · Aug 19, 2006

nfora said:
We could really use a great prophet or two for some shrines as needed in the former spanish cities. If I remember correctly she had three holy cities.... if anything could revitalize our economy... those could.

Hehe - 2 of them aren't *former* Spanish cities.........yet. At present a GProphet from Kyoto couldn't get to our main continent

Big Pig · Aug 19, 2006

Murky said:
My guess is that Mansa and Bismark share the same continent which may become our next target after Isabella.

I think we're going to need Astronomy first. I don't see that we're going to be able to get there from Osaka in just galleys, and the best units we can build in Kyoto are archers.

Murky · Aug 19, 2006

Big Pig said:
I think we're going to need Astronomy first. I don't see that we're going to be able to get there from Osaka in just galleys, and the best units we can build in Kyoto are archers.

I was looking several turns ahead to a time when we have galleons.

Here is a guess at what the map might look like.

nfora · Aug 19, 2006

Big Pig said:
Hehe - 2 of them aren't *former* Spanish cities.........yet. At present a GProphet from Kyoto couldn't get to our main continent

Am I really being too confident?

Mîtiu Ioan · Aug 19, 2006

Good job - Big Pig !!

In honour of your victories I propose that barcelona to be named -> Big Pigsville.

However - the general situation didn't look too good and I belive that we need some brainstorming for a medium strategic target in order to restore the gap ...

Check the save now and I have some question :

1. Kubilai Han seems willing to trade for Horseback Riding and Theology - shouldn't we trade with he ?
2. The Colossus gamble seems to be dropped, even at a moment we was the only which knew the secret of Metal Casting.

3. Did we need to colonize Stone-island near Kyoto too ?
4. Personally - I'm not happy with diverting units too Madrid instead of conquer ( or try to conquer ) Seville and raze Cordoba ... Anyway is great that we seems more than capable to eliminate Isabel only with Axeman and Catapults.

That's my tought for moment. Regards all.

Big Pig · Aug 19, 2006

Mîtiu Ioan said:
the general situation didn't look too good and I belive that we need some brainstorming for a medium strategic target in order to restore the gap ...

Agree - we need to figure out how to catch up with Mansa and Bismark - and destroy them

Mîtiu Ioan said:
Check the save now and I have some question :

1. Kubilai Han seems willing to trade for Horseback Riding and Theology - shouldn't we trade with he ? We could - though it would probably annoy Mansa. I didn't think HBR was necessary at presnt
2. The Colossus gamble seems to be dropped, even at a moment we was the only which knew the secret of Metal Casting. Sorry about that. I have been concentrating building units to explore and to try to meet the other civs. Also, there was no good city to build it in - it would have taken forever in Kyoto due to the low production there. Barcelona may be an option although again it is not a great production city. Madrid may be very suitable - but by then it may well be too late
3. Did we need to colonize Stone-island near Kyoto too ?The borders of Cow Island will eventually expand to cover it. Alternatively a city there when we have optics and can use the whales may be good. At present we don't need the stone tho'
4. Personally - I'm not happy with diverting units too Madrid instead of conquer ( or try to conquer ) Seville and raze Cordoba ... If we can pillage the copper and horses, Isabella cannot make strong units. And we will be able to attack Madrid sooner

Mîtiu Ioan · Aug 19, 2006

Hmmm ... some BIG questions now :

- Who will be our ally ? For the moment I belive that Bismark is the best choice.
- How to improve Great Person-points generations in Kyoto ? I see that you set up to build a market there - wouldn't be better a temple for reducing unhappines ?
- Is other victory-conditions than conquest doable ?

Regards all

nfora · Aug 19, 2006

Mîtiu Ioan said:
- Is other victory-conditions than conquest doable ?

Even if it is, I'd still like to try for conquest, just to see if we can.

SGOTM 02 - Murky Waters

Deity

Half Job

Deity

bringing home the bacon

Attachments

bringing home the bacon

Attachments

Deity

bringing home the bacon

Deity

Emperor

Deity

bringing home the bacon

Attachments

Warlord

bringing home the bacon

bringing home the bacon

Deity

Attachments

Warlord

Deity

bringing home the bacon

Deity

Warlord

Similar threads