SGOTM 02 - Murky Waters

Murky · Oct 25, 2006

Big Pig said:
I don't know how the AI values these things, but hopefully as Hatty is the current tech leader she won't feel the urge to build the Internet and will concentrate on SS parts instead (and ?save a GE for the Space Elevator instead or 3GD) - at least that's what I'd do if I were in her shoes!

PS Congrats on Post 1000!!

True. I think the AI would value the 3GD over The Internet. If it's still available once we have FO we have to go for it. It will greatly increase our chances of winning the game.

johnpaulcain · Oct 25, 2006

Mitiu, no Pressure!!!!!! But I think the next 10-15 turns are crucial!

Where is Cas the master builder when you need him most. Sunning it up in Hawaii! Waster!

Mîtiu Ioan · Oct 25, 2006

Do you want a REALLY BAD news ??? :mischief:

Internet project COULDN'T be rushed with a great engineer !! :cry:

Luckly - we obtain a great artist on Madrid - so I belive that the best is to trigger a Golden Age - no ?
Or to try to use the great engineer for 3GD ? :rolleyes:

Regards

Murky · Oct 25, 2006

M&#238 said:
Do you want a REALLY BAD news ???

Internet project COULDN'T be rushed with a great engineer !!
Luckly - we obtain a great artist on Madrid - so I belive that the best is to trigger a Golden Age - no ?
Or to try to use the great engineer for 3GD ?

Regards

Doh! That's right. You can't rush projects only buildings and wonders. Could use the GA for a culture bomb and the GE as SS for the extra hammers wherever we're doing The Internet project. I would continue research until the The Internet is completed.

Mîtiu Ioan · Oct 25, 2006

I uploaded the save ( I hope it worked O.K. - because the site connection crashed after this - I'll check now ) after just 12 turns.

In brief :
- Discovered Fiber Optics - we are the only ones which know it. :king:

- Raze 1 more Kubilai's city and 2 Huyana's city ( including FP one ) and made peace with them for alot of gold. Unfortunately lost a some units in the battles.

But fresh reinforcements was airlifted in Samarkand

).
- The worst news is that Hatty keep our fleet blocked in way to Kyoto's group of islands - and that part is definately the best for sneak attack against Munsa.

- Don't use the two great persons available. I personally prefer to trigger a Golden Age - but I let the decision to the vote/next player.
- We are 14 turns to Robotics now.

Good luck for the next player !

nfora · Oct 25, 2006

Wow I really didn't think my turn would come up again until next week.... I have to ask for (another

) skip.

Murky · Oct 25, 2006

Mîtiu Ioan said:
I uploaded the save ( I hope it worked O.K. - because the site connection crashed after this - I'll check now ) after just 12 turns.

In brief :
- Discovered Fiber Optics - we are the only ones which know it.
- Raze 1 more Kubilai's city and 2 Huyana's city ( including FP one ) and made peace with them for alot of gold. Unfortunately lost a some units in the battles. But fresh reinforcements was airlifted in Samarkand ).
- The worst news is that Hatty keep our fleet blocked in way to Kyoto's group of islands - and that part is definately the best for sneak attack against Munsa.
- Don't use the two great persons available. I personally prefer to trigger a Golden Age - but I let the decision to the vote/next player.
- We are 14 turns to Robotics now.

Good luck for the next player !

Nice work.

A Golden Age would boost production (1 hammer per worked tile) and increase happiness for 8 turns. This would speed up the building process but only for a while. It probably should be a group decision.

Big Pig · Oct 25, 2006

Good work Mitiu. HC is now down to 3 or 4 decent cities and will not be completed his spaceship anytime soon.

From the save only Hatty has FO (and I think we got it first?) so I am quite confident about getting Internet (the GE thing is a pain tho'!!)

Here are my suggestions for the next turn (?Murky):

Stop research now. We have a very good chance of being first to build the Internet (and if we don't, then we are probably stuffed anyway). It is time to start building wealth for upgrades and gold-rushing units.
Convert to Univ Suff now. The extra production in towns will help slightly and the ability to gold rush units is good. It will cost us 2 turns in building the internet but I am confident that we will still be first to it
Use our 2 GPs for a Golden Age (once we have U Suff - we don't want to waste 2 turns of a Golden Age in anarchy). A GAge will knock 2-3 turns off our build time for the internet in Santiago and boost gold and production throughout our empire (which means more units) and/or commerce
During the Golden Age, check each city each turn to make sure we are maximising production (we can work 10 production squares in Santiago giving us an extra 40 hammers to the Internet per turn)
Stop university and observatory builds - we don't need the science.
Switch scientists to work tiles or to become merchants
Get our 3 spies in Samar out - particularly in Mansa's and Hatty's cities
See if Bismark will go to war (for the 4th time) with Hatty for Computers (you will have to wait a few turns for this)
For now, razing Mansa's 2 cities on the South Coast is an acceptable goal for our next war - we will deal with his north coast cities later. Get transports and destroyers/battleships positioned to enable us to raze the cities the same turn as we declare war. (If we raze his South Coast cities he can then only send invasion fleets against us through the Straits of Thebes - easy to guard
Upgrade our remaining galleons and frigates
Build more naval units and units - esp marines
Build a factory in Westside (production city)
put our bombers in Samar onto the carrier - will help with the bombardment of Mansa's S Coast cities
to discourage an assault from anyone on Samar, I would stick a machine gun on each of the 2 land tiles on the island

Murky · Oct 25, 2006

What about setting research to 0 now, change all specialist to merchants & engineers, trigger GA, finish The Internet ASAP (Univ Suff won't help with this), then switch to US and rush buy/upgrade as many units as possible. Of course, stop building science buildings and gear up for more production.

Finishing the The Internet ASAP should be our highest priority.

cas · Oct 25, 2006

I'm back from sunny (and freaking humid) Hawai'i. Had a good time except for that 6.7 quake 12 miles from where I was staying about a week ago. :bounce:

Actually, that was kind of fun too except electricity being out for most of the day.

Anyway, looks like you guys have played quite a few turns in my absence and we have a small chance of conquest VC. I will have to catch up on the thread & look at the savegame in detail.

BigPig's suggestions seem right on track to me. Will Mao go to war with anyone for techs ? The more wars we can keep going between the AI, the better...even if it is between AI's that are not the front-running threat.

cas

Big Pig · Oct 25, 2006

Murky said:
What about setting research to 0 now, change all specialist to merchants & engineers, trigger GA, finish The Internet ASAP (Univ Suff won't help with this), then switch to US and rush buy/upgrade as many units as possible. Of course, stop building science buildings and gear up for more production.
Finishing the The Internet ASAP should be our highest priority.

That sounds reasonable - we will get the internet 2 turns earlier. The down-sides are not being able to goldrush units for ~17 turns (but we can still accumulate gold and upgrade units) and a slightly reduced production in our town-heavy cities (but production isn't very good there anyway. Lets do that.

cas said:
Will Mao go to war with anyone for techs ? The more wars we can keep going between the AI, the better...even if it is between AI's that are not the front-running threat.

Welcome back! Mao will war with HC for FO, as will Mansa. I think we have crippled HC enough for now and I am reticent about giving FO away. Bismark will war with HC for computers - a better deal, but I would prefer to wait a few turns until his current peace treaty with Hatty runs out and set him against Hatty again

Murky · Oct 25, 2006

Sounds good BP. If everyone is in agreement I can commence with my turns tonight.

Welcome back cas.

Murky · Oct 25, 2006

I'm having some technical difficultys with my PC. Going to have to take a skip.

It's all up to you BP. Good luck.

Big Pig · Oct 26, 2006

I've just finished my turns. I'll do a more detailed post later, but the highlights are:

Switched to 0% science - coffers are now bulging with gold (~9000)
Had Golden Age
We are currently 6 turns away from completing the Internet. I haven't seen anyone else building it - and only Hatty and Mansa have FO
I upgraded all our galleons to transports and frigates to destroyers. We now have a fleet sitting off Westside ready to fill with troops
Mansa built the UN and got voted leader over us - mainly due to that rat Bismark voting for Mansa (I don't think he'll be voting for Mansa again tho'....)
Hatty built 2 SS thrusters, Bismark, KK and Mao all built casings
Mansa built 3GD (in Niani)
I landed the spies and started systematic sabotage of oil, copper and aluminium resources in Mansa, Bismark and Hatty lands (Hatty kept capturing them tho'.....)
I bribed Bismark to war with Hatty for Computers (he gave us Mass Media and a bunch of gold too, generous chap)
I bribed Mansa to war with Bismark for FO (got 1000 gold too). Mansa promptly captured one of Bismark's western cities
I moved 4 transports full of marines etc to Mansa's south coast ready to raze his 2 cities - unfortunately Mansa had discovered robotics by then and had Mech Inf defending his cities
Decided to bite the bullet and declare on Mansa anyway. Bombarded defences in Walata (his Heroic Epic, Ironworks and Tao shrine city) to nothing and stormed it with wave after wave of marines. It was bloody (I think we lost 6 or 7 marines) but Walata was captured and burnt to the ground
We are poised to attack his other South Coast city next turn (preliminary bombardment has commenced)
After seeing our success in Walata, Mao wanted to join in the fun, and declared on Mansa for Mass Media (he also gave us gold and stopped trading with Hatty!!)

Spoiler :

johnpaulcain · Oct 26, 2006

Nice one BP. Looks good now, 6 turns to go then it's time for total carnage!

Cas, your mission (should you choose to accept it!) is simple, get internet, change to Universal Suffrage and kick a bit of butt!

Then hopefully my mission will be even simpler......Total arse kicking time!!!

Mîtiu Ioan · Oct 26, 2006

Superb played BP !! :goodjob:

Destroying Mansa Ironwork city should delay his SS parts production alot ...

johnpaulcain · Oct 26, 2006

Just a note, we have got to win as fast as possible so we shouldn't waste much time once we have internet. That is not a reason to be silly though, we don't want any more dips on the graph!

We should easily out produce everyone once we have internet so the plan must be "Quick.....but not silly". I am a master of words sometimes!

As a tactic, attacking from two sides always seems to baffle the AI. We should build up forces in Kyoto whilst keeping up forces on our east and west sides i.e dont build one large force, build three. The Kyoto force will need to be airlifted in gradually and the navy units rushed with gold in the three islands.

Big Pig · Oct 26, 2006

johnpaulcain said:
Just a note, we have got to win as fast as possible.

You think we might still be in with a chance for the laurels then?

johnpaulcain said:
As a tactic, attacking from two sides always seems to baffle the AI. We should build up forces in Kyoto whilst keeping up forces on our east and west sides i.e dont build one large force, build three. The Kyoto force will need to be airlifted in gradually and the navy units rushed with gold in the three islands

That sounds fine. We will be able to slip some naval units in when we declare on Hatty also. I would suggest finish filling our Westside transports with units, then start airlifting units to Kyoto and the islands

Murky · Oct 26, 2006

Nice turnset bp. I don't think that it could've went any better. We might still have a chance at winning. I wouldn't get our hopes too high on getting a lurel though.

Big Pig · Oct 26, 2006

A few points for cas or JPC - whoever is up next

When we get the internet in 6 turns we will learn Robotics and how to build mech inf. This may stop us building marines (I'm not 100% sure - I know marines are upgradable to mech inf). Now, marines get automatic amphibious promotion which is key to our current tactics of naval basad assaults (and mech inf don't). I would suggest building marines in every city we can for the next 6 turns to maximise our supply in case we can't build them after we get Robotics (We can upgrade them all to amphibious mech inf when we get Robotics).
EDIT: Actually, this might not be true - I'm not sure if marines do upgrade to mech inf
For the above reasons I would not sail our Westside invasion fleet until turn 6 so we can fill the transports with amphib mech inf
Once you raze Mansa's other south coast city, there is no reason to continue fighting him (for the present time). I would suggest healing our Southern task force at sea and moving in round to Hatty's coast ready for the war against her. We don't want to land any troops in Mansa's territory as he is currently stronger wrt land-based forces than we are. Get peace with him when you can (ie in 10 turns)
I moved our 3 bombers into Cologne, Bismarks city that borders Mansa to enable me to bombard Walata. Unfortunately Bismarks troops are quite weak there and at risk of being over-run by Mansa. If Cologne is not taken by Mansa next turn, get the bombers out asap!!
If Cologne is taken by Mansa we may want to consider trying to take it with an amphib assault and razing it (will depend on Mansa's troop strength in the city)
When not needed for bombing missions, I found it useful to do recon patrols with our fighters and bombers to look out for incoming invasion fleets (esp around Samar and New New Eastside)
Once we get Internet we need a few more spies from Santiago to replace those currently languishing in Hatty's dungeons. If you airlift them to Kyoto, there is a sub there that can deliver them to the AI mainland
Bismark has no Panzers (or at least none I saw) - I didn't check the save game but I suspect this means he has no oil. He is probably in quite serious trouble fighting wars against his 2 neighbours who have gunships and mech inf. Might slow down his SS production....
When I checked the save game after I had submitted it I noticed the city governors had slipped a few citizens back to being scientists. I guess you need to keep an eye on this and change scientists to merchants or to work tiles
Also, I changed merchants to work tiles in a lot of cities during our Golden Age. Now we are no longer getting extra commerce per tile, they would probably be better as merchants

SGOTM 02 - Murky Waters

Deity

Half Job

Deity

Deity

Deity

Warlord

Deity

bringing home the bacon

Deity

Emperor

bringing home the bacon

Deity

Deity

bringing home the bacon

Attachments

Half Job

Deity

Half Job

bringing home the bacon

Deity

bringing home the bacon

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