SGOTM 02 - The Real Ms. Beyond

[Kodii]

Looks good! I guess I'm up next. I'll player later tonight after some discussion (?).

EDIT- We are now officially one of two teams still left in the BC era (along with Peanut).

 

[EL_OSO]

I looked at the file and we look ok at the moment. We'll need to heal some axes and get the copper road re-connected soon. I don't have any suggestions or ideas right now.

 

[Kodii]

Ok, i'm into my fifth turn. I have three axemen outside Cordoba that is defended by two archers. We should take Cordoba easily. We voted to raze Cordoba, correct?

 

[BeefontheBone]

I'd say so - it appears to have next to no resources and is irritatingly positioned off the coast and near to us.

 

[Kodii]

IHT 550 BC - Looks like we're in pretty good condition to move towards Izzy.

T1 535 BC - The axes begin to heal, but use one to kill Isabella's chariot.

T2 520 BC - A barb axeman dies on our fortified axe. I begin to move three axemen towards Cordoba.

T3 505 BC - A barb warrior impales itself on Osaka's archer. The copper road is reconnected.

T4 490 BC - Currency comes in. I begin CoL at 0% research.

T5 475 BC - Destroy a barb warrior and another Spanish chariot. Over at Cordoba, our first axeman wins. Our more experienced axeman dies against our good odds. Our third warrior wins and razes Cordoba. We pillage 58G from the city.

T6 460 BC - Nothing

T7 445 BC - Osaka's borders expand. I upgrade the 9XP warrior into a spearman, so Tokyo can continue to build axemen.

T8 430 BC - A Spanish galley destroys out fishing nets...

T9 415 BC - An axeman destroys another Spanish chariot.

T10 400 BC - Nothing of importance. We should be prepared to go take another Spanish city. Izzy has removed an archer from Toledo and replaced it was a spearman. That removed archer continues to move northwards, past Seville. One of our axemen has found the borders of Barcelona, which is directly north of Cordoba. I assume Madrid is on the other side of the small isthmus.

Which city should we take next? It looks like Toledo is nothing more than an annoyance, as its borders have expanded and have taken back some tiles. Tokyo isn't growing because of the razed fish nets. I wasn't quite sure what to do, so our workers are continuing to cottage. I think we should go for Seville next. It is only guarded by two archers at the moment. Izzy continues to pump out chariots which can easily be destroyed by axemen, or the healing spearman in Tokyo. I think Compromise is up next. Good luck!

Save: http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm2/The_Real_Ms_Beyond_SG002_BC0400_01.Civ4SavedGame

 

[ruff_hi]

Roster
regoarrarr
BeefontheBone
Kodii
Compromise - up
ruff_hi - on deck
Snaproll
Zalson
EL_OSO

 

[Compromise]

Compromise checking in. I will be able to play on Wednesday (US time). If ruff_hi wants to swap with me this set to keep things moving, I'm fine with that. Just let me know so I don't double-run any turns. If I don't hear anything, I'll post before I start playing and then post again when I'm finished.

Isabella will rue the day she started her civilization on our continent....

Until then, any opinions, comments are welcome.

 

[ruff_hi]

done playing, report tomorrow ... teaser ...

Should I keep it or raze it - I didn't see any discussion on this, so comments, options please.

 

[BeefontheBone]

Looks pretty grotty to me in all that jungle.

 

[Zalson]

Please do not keep it, burn burn burn.
There's a reason (burn burn burn)

 

[ruff_hi]

Please do not keep it, burn burn burn.
There's a reason (burn burn burn)

And the reason?

 

[ruff_hi]

Recap of our current condition ...

• score is growing slowly, lower than Bella's but not for long
• GNP is really jumpy, about the same level as Bella's
• Manufactor goods is low, but slowly increasing
• Crop yields are steadily increasing, slightly higher than Bella's (jungle is really slowing her down)
• Power is growing steadily, slightly lower than Bella's
• You don't want to know the demographics
• We are break-even at 40% - that is pretty good

We have some nicely promoted axes in Tokyo but I am unsure if I should be going West to that single city or North to Bella's main holding. I scan the thread and find no suggestions there so ... I decide to go North to Bella's main holdings. Our three workers have time on their hands because we cannot farm or pasture - pigs and rice just sitting there getting stale. So, I decide to road to Bella's city to our West (don't worry, I stopped 1 tile away so no risk of losing any workers) and roading to the North. There was a barbarian axe between Bella and us that slowed me down a little bit (I didn't want to leave a very injured axe outside the city (say, after killing an archer) for the Barbarian axe to defeat. Anyway, he stopped to pillage Bella's single cottage, so I did attack Seville (three archers which ended up costing us two axes). The odds were approximately 70% so 3 victories out of 5 is about right. Unfortunately, this left two injured axes and a spear on a jungle tile next to the barbarian axe and he chose that turn to attack us. Fortunately, the spear won!

In other Spain action, our medic axe in the North went further North, found Barcelona (2 units - 1 archer and 1 axe!) and Madrid(!). Madrid is on a hill, with 60% defensive bonus with 5 units inside (3 archers and 2 chariots from memory) ... so we are going to need cats to take that down. By turns end, the city to our East also has walls (+50%).

Other barb action ... not much ... one archer approached from the South and I only knew about it when he attacked our 'axe on a hill' (why doesn't sentry work?). There was a barbarian worrier ... err ... warrior that got killed off on the first round. I also moved our forest hill axe further south (still on a forest hill) but now busting more fog.

Our summer ocean retreat ... both cities there had just had a lighthouse whipped. I started a grainery in the 2nd city and a work boat in the capital. I looked at the tiles and it looked to me as if we hadn't netted the crabs. Later in the turn, I saw that we had crab health in our cities so we must have netted them (duh on the workboat build). I ended up whipping the thing (unhappy and unhealthy) and starting on a market. Don't worry, the workboat will not go to waste - we can turn it into a whaling boat somewhere down the track. Yes, that was what I was planning all along! [History rewrite] I started on a whaling boat knowing that we would need it in the near future. We also popped another great scientist who will give us alphabet (or calendar if I am reading the list correctly and we tech alphabet ourselves). Calendar would be good as it a pre-requisite for Astronomy.

[picture from end of turn]​

On the Saville front ... I ended up keeping that city. I wasn't happy with its placement, nor with the placement of Barcelona. I would have preferred to Raze both cities and found pink and blue dot (below). However, during my turn, Bella founded Christianity in Barcelona and I have a 'thing' against razing holy cities (tell that to ChrTh who taught me that lesson when in a SG with him I razed not 1, but 2 holy cities in a single turn ... and us in a situation where we had no religion, wanted happiness and money ... I just didn't notice that they were holy cities). Anyway, that bit of news put a spanner in the works re razing and rebuilding. I could still have razed Saville and moved it 1 tile North, but, honestly, 1 tile was not worth it ... agree / disagree ... too late.

There are some fish or something in the water that we can still net with red dot. I would also road the brown line to connect us with Barcelona / Spain and speed our troops there. Also, there are two empty Egyption galleys (West coast) doing nothing.

[picture from end of turn]​

Here is the picture of Madrid, without its copper mine ... a site guarded by 1 medic axe.

[picture NOT from end of turn]​

News of the outside world ... in 310BC, both the Pyramids and the Great Lighthouse completed.

End of Turn info

• We have 341 in the bank ... +13 at 0%, +20 if max commerce
• Code of Laws is 10 turns away at 100% science at -31 gpt
• Saville is out of revolt in 4 turns (estimate about 12 gpt in cost)
• 4 turns at 31 and 6 turns at 43 is 382 gold, then time to build the courthouses ...
• I expect that Bella will give us peace (and maybe tech if we have alphabet) ... she has 50 gold
• Sacking Barcelona will give us some money

Spoiler log :

Turn 141, 385 BC: The Real Ms. Beyond's Axeman (5.50) vs Barbarian's Warrior (1.33)
Turn 141, 385 BC: Combat Odds: 100.0%
Turn 141, 385 BC: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 141, 385 BC: (Combat: -50%)
Turn 141, 385 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 37 (63/100HP)
Turn 141, 385 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 37 (26/100HP)
Turn 141, 385 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 37 (0/100HP)
Turn 141, 385 BC: The Real Ms. Beyond's Axeman has defeated Barbarian's Warrior!
Turn 141, 385 BC: Xi Ling Shi has been born in Kyoto!
Turn 141, 385 BC: Mahavira has been born in a far away land!

Turn 142, 370 BC: Christianity has been founded in Barcelona!

Turn 144, 340 BC: The borders of Edo have expanded!

Turn 145, 325 BC: The Real Ms. Beyond's Axeman (5.50) vs Isabella's Archer (3.75)
Turn 145, 325 BC: Combat Odds: 86.5%
Turn 145, 325 BC: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 145, 325 BC: (Plot Defense: +20%)
Turn 145, 325 BC: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 145, 325 BC: (City Defense: +50%)
Turn 145, 325 BC: (City Attack: -45%)
Turn 145, 325 BC: (Combat: -25%)
Turn 145, 325 BC: The Real Ms. Beyond's Axeman is hit for 16 (84/100HP)
Turn 145, 325 BC: Isabella's Archer is hit for 24 (76/100HP)
Turn 145, 325 BC: Isabella's Archer is hit for 24 (52/100HP)
Turn 145, 325 BC: The Real Ms. Beyond's Axeman is hit for 16 (68/100HP)
Turn 145, 325 BC: Isabella's Archer is hit for 24 (28/100HP)
Turn 145, 325 BC: The Real Ms. Beyond's Axeman is hit for 16 (52/100HP)
Turn 145, 325 BC: Isabella's Archer is hit for 24 (4/100HP)
Turn 145, 325 BC: Isabella's Archer is hit for 24 (0/100HP)
Turn 145, 325 BC: The Real Ms. Beyond's Axeman has defeated Isabella's Archer!
Turn 145, 325 BC: The Real Ms. Beyond's Axeman (5.50) vs Isabella's Archer (4.50)
Turn 145, 325 BC: Combat Odds: 68.6%
Turn 145, 325 BC: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 145, 325 BC: (Plot Defense: +20%)
Turn 145, 325 BC: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 145, 325 BC: (City Defense: +50%)
Turn 145, 325 BC: (City Attack: -20%)
Turn 145, 325 BC: (Combat: -25%)
Turn 145, 325 BC: Isabella's Archer is hit for 22 (78/100HP)
Turn 145, 325 BC: The Real Ms. Beyond's Axeman is hit for 18 (82/100HP)
Turn 145, 325 BC: The Real Ms. Beyond's Axeman is hit for 18 (64/100HP)
Turn 145, 325 BC: The Real Ms. Beyond's Axeman is hit for 18 (46/100HP)
Turn 145, 325 BC: The Real Ms. Beyond's Axeman is hit for 18 (28/100HP)
Turn 145, 325 BC: The Real Ms. Beyond's Axeman is hit for 18 (10/100HP)
Turn 145, 325 BC: Isabella's Archer is hit for 22 (56/100HP)
Turn 145, 325 BC: The Real Ms. Beyond's Axeman is hit for 18 (0/100HP)
Turn 145, 325 BC: Isabella's Archer has defeated The Real Ms. Beyond's Axeman!

Turn 146, 310 BC: The Real Ms. Beyond's Axeman (5.50) vs Isabella's Archer (4.48)
Turn 146, 310 BC: Combat Odds: 68.8%
Turn 146, 310 BC: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 146, 310 BC: (Plot Defense: +20%)
Turn 146, 310 BC: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 146, 310 BC: (City Defense: +70%)
Turn 146, 310 BC: (City Attack: -20%)
Turn 146, 310 BC: (Combat: -25%)
Turn 146, 310 BC: Isabella's Archer is hit for 21 (67/100HP)
Turn 146, 310 BC: Isabella's Archer is hit for 21 (46/100HP)
Turn 146, 310 BC: The Real Ms. Beyond's Axeman is hit for 18 (82/100HP)
Turn 146, 310 BC: The Real Ms. Beyond's Axeman is hit for 18 (64/100HP)
Turn 146, 310 BC: The Real Ms. Beyond's Axeman is hit for 18 (46/100HP)
Turn 146, 310 BC: The Real Ms. Beyond's Axeman is hit for 18 (28/100HP)
Turn 146, 310 BC: The Real Ms. Beyond's Axeman is hit for 18 (10/100HP)
Turn 146, 310 BC: Isabella's Archer is hit for 21 (25/100HP)
Turn 146, 310 BC: Isabella's Archer is hit for 21 (4/100HP)
Turn 146, 310 BC: Isabella's Archer is hit for 21 (0/100HP)
Turn 146, 310 BC: The Real Ms. Beyond's Axeman has defeated Isabella's Archer!
Turn 146, 310 BC: The Great Lighthouse has been built in a far away land!
Turn 146, 310 BC: The Pyramids has been built in a far away land!
Turn 146, 310 BC: Barbarian's Axeman (5.00) vs The Real Ms. Beyond's Spearman (5.60)
Turn 146, 310 BC: Combat Odds: 30.8%
Turn 146, 310 BC: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 146, 310 BC: (Plot Defense: +50%)
Turn 146, 310 BC: (Fortify: +5%)
Turn 146, 310 BC: (Combat: -50%)
Turn 146, 310 BC: (Combat: +25%)
Turn 146, 310 BC: The Real Ms. Beyond's Spearman is hit for 18 (82/100HP)
Turn 146, 310 BC: The Real Ms. Beyond's Spearman is hit for 18 (64/100HP)
Turn 146, 310 BC: The Real Ms. Beyond's Spearman is hit for 18 (46/100HP)
Turn 146, 310 BC: Barbarian's Axeman is hit for 21 (79/100HP)
Turn 146, 310 BC: Barbarian's Axeman is hit for 21 (58/100HP)
Turn 146, 310 BC: Barbarian's Axeman is hit for 21 (37/100HP)
Turn 146, 310 BC: Barbarian's Axeman is hit for 21 (16/100HP)
Turn 146, 310 BC: Barbarian's Axeman is hit for 21 (0/100HP)
Turn 146, 310 BC: The Real Ms. Beyond's Spearman has defeated Barbarian's Axeman!

Turn 147, 295 BC: The enemy has been spotted near Tokyo!
Turn 147, 295 BC: A Forest has grown near Osaka!

Turn 148, 280 BC: The enemy has been spotted near Osaka!
Turn 148, 280 BC: The enemy has been spotted near Tokyo!
Turn 148, 280 BC: The Real Ms. Beyond's Axeman (5.50) vs Isabella's Archer (3.00)
Turn 148, 280 BC: Combat Odds: 98.2%
Turn 148, 280 BC: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 148, 280 BC: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 148, 280 BC: (Combat: -25%)
Turn 148, 280 BC: The Real Ms. Beyond's Axeman is hit for 14 (86/100HP)
Turn 148, 280 BC: Isabella's Archer is hit for 26 (74/100HP)
Turn 148, 280 BC: Isabella's Archer is hit for 26 (48/100HP)
Turn 148, 280 BC: Isabella's Archer is hit for 26 (22/100HP)
Turn 148, 280 BC: Isabella's Archer is hit for 26 (0/100HP)
Turn 148, 280 BC: The Real Ms. Beyond's Axeman has defeated Isabella's Archer!
Turn 148, 280 BC: Your Axeman has destroyed a Archer!
Turn 148, 280 BC: Barbarian's Archer (3.00) vs The Real Ms. Beyond's Axeman (9.25)
Turn 148, 280 BC: Combat Odds: 0.0%
Turn 148, 280 BC: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 148, 280 BC: (Plot Defense: +25%)
Turn 148, 280 BC: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 148, 280 BC: (Combat: +25%)
Turn 148, 280 BC: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 33 (67/100HP)
Turn 148, 280 BC: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 33 (34/100HP)
Turn 148, 280 BC: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 33 (1/100HP)
Turn 148, 280 BC: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 33 (0/100HP)
Turn 148, 280 BC: The Real Ms. Beyond's Axeman has defeated Barbarian's Archer!
Turn 148, 280 BC: While defending, your Axeman has killed a Barbarian Archer!

Turn 149, 265 BC: The enemy has been spotted near Tokyo!
Turn 149, 265 BC: You have plundered 74 from the Mine!

ruff: that is a typo - it was 7 gold! AlanH told me that (apparently) '4' is the internal symbol for gold.

Turn 150, 250 BC: The enemy has been spotted near Osaka!
Turn 150, 250 BC: The enemy has been spotted near Tokyo!
Turn 150, 250 BC: The Real Ms. Beyond's Axeman (5.50) vs Isabella's Archer (5.10)
Turn 150, 250 BC: Combat Odds: 60.8%
Turn 150, 250 BC: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 150, 250 BC: (Plot Defense: +20%)
Turn 150, 250 BC: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 150, 250 BC: (City Defense: +50%)
Turn 150, 250 BC: (Combat: -25%)
Turn 150, 250 BC: Isabella's Archer is hit for 20 (80/100HP)
Turn 150, 250 BC: Isabella's Archer is hit for 20 (60/100HP)
Turn 150, 250 BC: The Real Ms. Beyond's Axeman is hit for 19 (81/100HP)
Turn 150, 250 BC: The Real Ms. Beyond's Axeman is hit for 19 (62/100HP)
Turn 150, 250 BC: Isabella's Archer is hit for 20 (40/100HP)
Turn 150, 250 BC: The Real Ms. Beyond's Axeman is hit for 19 (43/100HP)
Turn 150, 250 BC: The Real Ms. Beyond's Axeman is hit for 19 (24/100HP)
Turn 150, 250 BC: Isabella's Archer is hit for 20 (20/100HP)
Turn 150, 250 BC: The Real Ms. Beyond's Axeman is hit for 19 (5/100HP)
Turn 150, 250 BC: The Real Ms. Beyond's Axeman is hit for 19 (0/100HP)
Turn 150, 250 BC: Isabella's Archer has defeated The Real Ms. Beyond's Axeman!
Turn 150, 250 BC: Your Axeman has died trying to attack a Archer!
Turn 150, 250 BC: The Real Ms. Beyond's Axeman (5.50) vs Isabella's Archer (1.02)
Turn 150, 250 BC: Combat Odds: 100.0%
Turn 150, 250 BC: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 150, 250 BC: (Plot Defense: +20%)
Turn 150, 250 BC: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 150, 250 BC: (City Defense: +50%)
Turn 150, 250 BC: (Combat: -25%)
Turn 150, 250 BC: The Real Ms. Beyond's Axeman is hit for 15 (85/100HP)
Turn 150, 250 BC: Isabella's Archer is hit for 26 (0/100HP)
Turn 150, 250 BC: The Real Ms. Beyond's Axeman has defeated Isabella's Archer!
Turn 150, 250 BC: Your Axeman has destroyed a Archer!
Turn 150, 250 BC: You have captured Seville!!!

 

[Zalson]

Oh yeah... that reason... I thought that by Seville, you meant Cordoba. I really need to pay more attention

I really was thinking mostly about the massive city maintenence (sic) costs. it would appear not to matter much anymore.

 

[Compromise]

Good to see that Ruff_hi has taken the reins and taken it to Isabella. Waiting for some discussion before I ruin the game for us.

Is Madrid on a hill?! [Edit: Just read that ruff_hi very clearly stated that it is. Groan.]

 

[EL_OSO]

I'm up in the air about sacking Barcelona now that it is the home of a religious holy city. If we can't take Madrid yet, then keeping Barcelona would be the best bet.

I would hope that we eliminate her city to our south before any peace deals are negotiated.

 

[ruff_hi]

my thoughts are:

• take and keep barcelona
• lightbulb alphabet
• settle for peace with bella, taking suitable tech and gold
• tech to CoL at suitable speed (not sure what, somewhere between 40% and 100%) depending on cash from barcelona and peace settlement
• build courthouses in cities on mainland
• redeclare on bella as soon as possible, maybe leaving stupid small city down South to extort tech from

 

[Compromise]

my thoughts are:

• take and keep barcelona
• lightbulb alphabet
• settle for peace with bella, taking suitable tech and gold
• tech to CoL at suitable speed (not sure what, somewhere between 40% and 100%) depending on cash from barcelona and peace settlement
• build courthouses in cities on mainland
• redeclare on bella as soon as possible, maybe leaving stupid small city down South to extort tech from

What tech(s) do we want from Isabella? Also, I don't think the AI will give you much of anything, especially techs, if you only leave it with a single city.

 

[Kodii]

Didn't we decide earlier what we wanted to do with all those cities? I thought we were to raze Cordoba, Seville and.. that other city that is in crap placement with Osaka and Tokyo. Seville has terrible overlap with Tokyo. I wanted to see it razed. I think we can keep Barcelona and Madrid...

Still mad about keeping Seville

EDIT: We are now the only team still in the BCs

 

[ruff_hi]

re Techs - agri and animal husb for starters - then we can farm the rice and pen the sheep.

 

[EL_OSO]

Didn't we decide earlier what we wanted to do with all those cities? I thought we were to raze Cordoba, Seville and.. that other city that is in crap placement with Osaka and Tokyo. Seville has terrible overlap with Tokyo. I wanted to see it razed. I think we can keep Barcelona and Madrid...

Still mad about keeping Seville

EDIT: We are now the only team still in the BCs

I know this may sound cheesy but we could gift it back to her the turn before we declare war again and then raze it upon re-capture.