Everything is as clear as mud. Not sure what we want as it appears we have lost focus. Here is what I do know. We are not strong enough to fight on 2 fronts and devote troops to watch JC. If we try and take Huanya's interior cities we might be able to gift them to Hattie but her culture will make it hard to hold them. Maybe we take Alexandria (I think) and gift it to her. Our Cossacks can survive a go at Toku but not sure after that so we still need to make progress with tech. We probably have enough galleons once we cease fighting Huanga but are woefully light on Frigates. (My first priority.) If Monti isn't open for a PA I will try and bribe him. I will gift and smile sweetly to Cyrus. I think I will change religions but won't give up gold rushing. Will try and get others to fight with Toku or Khan. After taking a couple Cities may make peace with Huanga. Start Frigate buildup near Lodestone as deterrent to Julius. Anything else? Will play in a couple hours.
SGOTM 03 - Geezers
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
Sam_Yeager
Another Original Geezer
As discussed earlier it will take at least 3 turns of anarchy to change to a religion and I don't think it's needed for Monty anyway. Besides you haven't said which religion you wanted to change to. How will this affect Ghandi, Vicki and most important Julius? I definitely do not think that you should make that type of civic change.
As far as Huayna concerned I think we should just take Cuzco and hold there. If you need more troops for the attack then Cori can spare some.
I agree with building up some more frigates and troops generally on the mainland. Don't take all our frigates away from Novgorod. We don't want to tempt Toku.
Not so sure about Cyrus. Have a check for which of our allies doesn't like him before dealing with him.
Sam_Yeager
Another Original Geezer
last I checked, none of our allies had any problems with Cyrus...he kinda fell off the bandwagon when we decided to court Monty over Frederick, other than that, he's not a problem...especially if we can get him to like us enough to switch to free religion from Taoism.
I agree on not changing religious civics...we can't afford to alienate any of the religious civs we are courting. However, I disagree with Htadus that we should go and destroy Toku next...if we can get a PA with Monty to work, then we want Toku to remain as he is.
The only thing, I suspect, standing in the way of us getting a PA with Monty is the fact that we are #1 in power...if I recall correctly, the Ai has to like you a lot(done), you must have been in either a DP or Mutual War for awhile(done), and neither of you can be #1 in power. The only way to fix that is for us to either disband or gift some of our troops to someone else. If Julius was friendly with us, I'd recommend gifting them to him, but perhaps we should just gift them to whoever we can that is close to us and Monty in power.
I agree on not changing religious civics...we can't afford to alienate any of the religious civs we are courting. However, I disagree with Htadus that we should go and destroy Toku next...if we can get a PA with Monty to work, then we want Toku to remain as he is.
The only thing, I suspect, standing in the way of us getting a PA with Monty is the fact that we are #1 in power...if I recall correctly, the Ai has to like you a lot(done), you must have been in either a DP or Mutual War for awhile(done), and neither of you can be #1 in power. The only way to fix that is for us to either disband or gift some of our troops to someone else. If Julius was friendly with us, I'd recommend gifting them to him, but perhaps we should just gift them to whoever we can that is close to us and Monty in power.
Played. A lot of nothing. Monti wouldn't PA the whole set although I have him at+11. Increased ++s for most every Friendly but still no go. I made progress with building Frigates but still need 3-4 near Julius. He, by the way, remained quite throughout play. We are still at war with Huanga as I decided to take his 2 cities to the North on an island that were each only held by 2 rifles. We have a 5-Star Gren healing Vilcas
We may want to keep him safe. The GA is in a galleon next to Cori which revolted just as I started my play. We may want to use him their but I held off. Hatti is helping keep Huanga distracted with her Cav. Since we were getting nowhere with Monti and Toku was not going to overtake him(even if we could gift him Hittite)(and we couldn't)it was time to make him pay for starting this war. I took Satsuma,Nara and an Ice city next to Hittite. Edo is being bombed and a couple more frigates are coming around from Nara to help. Oh did I mention we have artillary
. I have included some screenies of the UN votes. will write up my notes in awhile and put them in a spoiler. They say the post is too long so will put TurnLog in 2nd post.
The Save: http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm3/Geezers_SG003_AD1750_01.Civ4SavedGame
We may want to keep him safe. The GA is in a galleon next to Cori which revolted just as I started my play. We may want to use him their but I held off. Hatti is helping keep Huanga distracted with her Cav. Since we were getting nowhere with Monti and Toku was not going to overtake him(even if we could gift him Hittite)(and we couldn't)it was time to make him pay for starting this war. I took Satsuma,Nara and an Ice city next to Hittite. Edo is being bombed and a couple more frigates are coming around from Nara to help. Oh did I mention we have artillary. I have included some screenies of the UN votes. will write up my notes in awhile and put them in a spoiler. They say the post is too long so will put TurnLog in 2nd post.The Save: http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm3/Geezers_SG003_AD1750_01.Civ4SavedGame
I don't know what happened to the screen shots, they were not in my folder. I will look for them But here are the results:
Turn(382) 450 730required out of 1179 Geezers,Mansa,Vicki,Gandhi: Monti
Turn(386) 477 732/1182 G,M,V,G: M
Turn(390) 495 734/1185 G,M,V,G: M
Session Turn Log from 1730 AD to 1750 AD:
Still Too LonG.....
Turn(382) 450 730required out of 1179 Geezers,Mansa,Vicki,Gandhi: Monti
Turn(386) 477 732/1182 G,M,V,G: M
Turn(390) 495 734/1185 G,M,V,G: M
Session Turn Log from 1730 AD to 1750 AD:
Spoiler :
Still Too LonG.....
Well played, Dagnabit !
Nevertheless at least half of us stated that we wanted Toku as opponent, so maybe we should have had a little more discussion about this before playing. We are not in a hurry, so a little more discussion might have been the way to go.
We have to take it from here, so the next one should go on with the campaign against Toku IMO.
Nevertheless at least half of us stated that we wanted Toku as opponent, so maybe we should have had a little more discussion about this before playing. We are not in a hurry, so a little more discussion might have been the way to go.
We have to take it from here, so the next one should go on with the campaign against Toku IMO.
Sam_Yeager
Another Original Geezer
Shame about the screen shots. 
It's a bit of a pain not knowing what the vote values are for our potential allies. However assuming Hatty & Cyrus have roughly the same values as before it looks like we would be about 85 votes short if we can get those two voting for us.
I don't Julius is ever going to vote for us so the question is where can we get those extra votes.Obviously one option is take out Toku. However assuming the civ sizes are roughly what they were during my turn then that would probably mean either Hatty or Julius would be our opponent.
Since we are the only one at war with Toku then we may be best making peace with him, perhaps after taking Edo, and then either taking out Huayna and/or attacking Khan.
Arghh! brains not working. Of course we'll still have Monty as opponent so we might as well take out Toku and keep working on Hatty and Cyrus.
It's a bit of a pain not knowing what the vote values are for our potential allies. However assuming Hatty & Cyrus have roughly the same values as before it looks like we would be about 85 votes short if we can get those two voting for us.I don't Julius is ever going to vote for us so the question is where can we get those extra votes.
Arghh! brains not working. Of course we'll still have Monty as opponent so we might as well take out Toku and keep working on Hatty and Cyrus.
The discussion had pretty much stopped I thought. IMHO there was no way we were going to get Toku as an opponent and no one showed how we were going to get Monti out. The only way put forth just recently was Maybe, IF and when we could get a PA with Monti we could get Toku as an opponent. Probably not though as Toku was falling behind Hattie who is in the process of taking Alexandria back and maybe will take a few more cities with our help since we went to war with Huanga. In the mean time we are only treading water, losing the effectiveness of our UU and not getting closer to a victory. If we get a PA with Monti that's great and we will pick up his votes. Sorry if I ruined everyones favorite opponent.
It was pretty clear to me we were getting no where fast? Maybe someone that is familiar with PA's could talk more about the time frame it takes to get one and anything else that could be done.Here is as much as I can provide without the screenies. I think my laptop is reaching it's limit with this game. I just loaded my saved game to count Cities/pop and took a screenie but it still isn't there??? So anyway here is the world count the best I can do. First I have the number of votes we had when we voted. I didn't include these as I thought they would be on the screenies They are:
Turn(381)-258Geezers 729 needed/1176 total
Turn(385)-276 730/1178
Turn(389)-288 734/1184
Now here are the world totals at turn 390:
Geezers 23cities(275pop) +5cities in revolt(21pop)
Monti 12(110)
Hatti 8(85)
Cyrus 7(79)
Khan 7(78)
Julius 9(77)
Mansa 7(74)
Toku 9(73)
Gandhi 6(63)
Izzy 7(56)
Vicki 4(56)
Wash 6(51)
Louis 3(34)
Salid 2(25)
Huanga 5(21)
It looks pretty close to 1 to 1. Adding Geezers,Mansa,Vicki and Gandhi
I get 468 + 21 in revolt. I also remember Monti being 107 votes on one of the cast ballets.
Best I can do
Turn(381)-258Geezers 729 needed/1176 total
Turn(385)-276 730/1178
Turn(389)-288 734/1184
Now here are the world totals at turn 390:
Geezers 23cities(275pop) +5cities in revolt(21pop)
Monti 12(110)
Hatti 8(85)
Cyrus 7(79)
Khan 7(78)
Julius 9(77)
Mansa 7(74)
Toku 9(73)
Gandhi 6(63)
Izzy 7(56)
Vicki 4(56)
Wash 6(51)
Louis 3(34)
Salid 2(25)
Huanga 5(21)
It looks pretty close to 1 to 1. Adding Geezers,Mansa,Vicki and Gandhi
I get 468 + 21 in revolt. I also remember Monti being 107 votes on one of the cast ballets.
Best I can do
Htadus
A and L's dad
Since I am one who advocated the demise of Toku, I will say good turn set Dagnabit. I think it is great that we use our UU to its Max potential and Toku is a good target.
now we need to get fresh units to the front as fast as possible.
now we need to get fresh units to the front as fast as possible.
Htadus
A and L's dad
Got it and looked at it.
Inca Front:
Tiawanaku and Machu Piccue is squeezing the life out of two of the captured Cities. It would be most useful to capture those two cities and drop the CBomb in Tiawanaku. They both should grow like crazy with bio. We do not need libs in some of the captured cities, lets have them build units.
Japanese Front:
I guess we keep on going northwest
. I would use the available units to take these cities with a bit of care while concentrating on Inca's. I will rush units to bring things to an end soon as possible.
Science: Infantry would be an awesome addition to any self respecting civ don't you think. Lets start science after a couple turns of rushing units. It would be a good deterance for the likes of JC.
Why are we going for a PA with Monty? I feel that is counter intuitive since he hates almost all our allies. What happens if he DOW on say; Vickey after the PA? Don't we stand to loose just as many votes?
There may be some thing that I do not see here, I need to play/read more about PA's. Why not an allie who has not voted for us yet and will most likely not start a war with another in the block. Would love to get JC but I think he is trigger happy.
Please feel free to comment. Too bad State Property will cause 3 turns of Anarchy.
If RL become an issue, I will forfit this turn.
Inca Front:
Tiawanaku and Machu Piccue is squeezing the life out of two of the captured Cities. It would be most useful to capture those two cities and drop the CBomb in Tiawanaku. They both should grow like crazy with bio. We do not need libs in some of the captured cities, lets have them build units.
Japanese Front:
I guess we keep on going northwest
. I would use the available units to take these cities with a bit of care while concentrating on Inca's. I will rush units to bring things to an end soon as possible.Science: Infantry would be an awesome addition to any self respecting civ don't you think.
Lets start science after a couple turns of rushing units. It would be a good deterance for the likes of JC.Why are we going for a PA with Monty? I feel that is counter intuitive since he hates almost all our allies. What happens if he DOW on say; Vickey after the PA? Don't we stand to loose just as many votes?
There may be some thing that I do not see here, I need to play/read more about PA's. Why not an allie who has not voted for us yet and will most likely not start a war with another in the block. Would love to get JC but I think he is trigger happy.Please feel free to comment. Too bad State Property will cause 3 turns of Anarchy.
If RL become an issue, I will forfit this turn.
Htadus
A and L's dad
I am not comfortable with getting a PA with Monty, but I will differ to you and other Geezers experience. But as for those excess units, I will do my best to reduce them in Japan and Inca.
We will have to settle for Hatty as our opponent at the UN.well, the reason Monty wouldn't agree to a PA with us was because we were #1 in power(meaning we would have needed to gift away some of our military)...the only reason to get one with him was to get Toku as our opponent.
As I recall from reading about PAs and from what Gyathaar told me, all relations would be standardized between us and Monty...meaning he would have followed our lead in diplomacy, while continuing to be in control of all his internal affairs. That would have given us his votes without a demerit from our allies, while making Toku our opponent.
It is too late for that now though...we could still attempt to get him as a PA and make Hatty our opponent...but then we might lose Mansa. I suppose we'll have to give up on getting Monty's votes, court Washington, Cyrus, and Hatty, and bash the heck out of Toku, Huayna, and Khan.
1 note for Htadus, since he is next...sign OB with Washington and Cyrus...that'll give us a couple extra points each. Also get Washington into a mutual war for the bonuses, if he's not still at war with Huayna.
JC won't attack us as long as we are #1 in power, but if he is to ever vote for us, we'll need to change our civics to representation as well...I know we are really hesitant to do so, but that would also help us with Cyrus.
As I recall from reading about PAs and from what Gyathaar told me, all relations would be standardized between us and Monty...meaning he would have followed our lead in diplomacy, while continuing to be in control of all his internal affairs. That would have given us his votes without a demerit from our allies, while making Toku our opponent.
It is too late for that now though...we could still attempt to get him as a PA and make Hatty our opponent...but then we might lose Mansa. I suppose we'll have to give up on getting Monty's votes, court Washington, Cyrus, and Hatty, and bash the heck out of Toku, Huayna, and Khan.
1 note for Htadus, since he is next...sign OB with Washington and Cyrus...that'll give us a couple extra points each. Also get Washington into a mutual war for the bonuses, if he's not still at war with Huayna.
JC won't attack us as long as we are #1 in power, but if he is to ever vote for us, we'll need to change our civics to representation as well...I know we are really hesitant to do so, but that would also help us with Cyrus.
if Hatty is #2, we stand a good chance of losing Mansa's votes...he likes her a lot, almost as much as us.
however...if we were to gift units to someone, eg. hatty, until we were no longer #1 in power(and monty didn't become #1 in power), then we could get a PA with him, then gift some of Toku's cities to Khan...he's close to Hatty. then we'd get the best of both worlds again
however...if we were to gift units to someone, eg. hatty, until we were no longer #1 in power(and monty didn't become #1 in power), then we could get a PA with him, then gift some of Toku's cities to Khan...he's close to Hatty. then we'd get the best of both worlds again
Sam_Yeager
Another Original Geezer
however...if we were to gift units to someone, eg. hatty, until we were no longer #1 in power(and monty didn't become #1 in power), then we could get a PA with him, then gift some of Toku's cities to Khan...he's close to Hatty. then we'd get the best of both worlds again
Interesting idea. I hate to be a killjoy but if we reduce our power then good old Julius is likely to take that as a green signal to attack us.
I'm pretty certain the only reason he hasn't attacked us so far is because we're #1 in power.Similar threads
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