SGOTM 03 - The Real Ms. Beyond

[Sir Bugsy]

I had build orders for the cities that should still be good, but I don't remember where the thread I put them. (Sorry, my notes are kind of out of order right now.)

I don't mean to be critical, but issuing build orders and go-to orders in an SG are usually bad form. Either you can trust your teammates or don't play.
You need to trust your teammates

Thanks for the detailed instructions. I don't use the whip that heavily, so it is good that you told me.

 

[Kodii]

Ok, last post I promise

I took a look ingame. Iron Working will take 30 turns at 90%, Pottery 12 turns. Of course, it will take longer than that, considering that the blue dot will be founded in about 8-9 turns. After Moscow completes the Pyramids, it doesn't have much to build. It basically depends on this:

Do we want Moscow to build a Granary after the Pyramids? If Yes, Pottery first.
Do we want Moscow to build something else after the Pyramids? If Yes, Iron Working first.

A tentative "Do this Bugsy" list, expanding from the previous one:

a) Whip the obelisk in St. Petes, and begin the workboat.
b) Found Novrogod on the blue dot (make sure you know where that is!)
c) Continue to chop forests to aid Pyramids construction
d) Tech? (still being decided)

If we decide to go Pottery next, then the end of the turnset will probably be when Pottery comes in. If we decide to go Iron Working next, we'll probably end the turnset shortly after Novrogod is founded.

Oops: Crossposted with Bugsy: I understood that go-to orders are bad form, but currently I have the settler on go-to to the blue dot... I hope you don't mind

If we delay playing until tomorrow, I may considering whipping up another summary post.

 

[Compromise]

Quick opinions in case Bugsy hasn't played yet:

Obelisk first thing in blue dot (Novgorod?). Then worker, I think; it will take a long time to get one over there. Four or workers for the empire seems about right.
I lean Ironworking over pottery, but very slightly. Mostly because I'm very curious to know if we have iron and if so, where.
Galleys in Moscow after pyramids, I think.
We need a settler for green dot close to the time (a little after should be fine) Ironworking comes in.
Move sentries into cities as appropriate.
It will be nice if Moscow can work 3 mines after pyramids and before pottery.
Suggest a road to St Pete's gem mine (either to Moscow or to St Pete) and a worker on the mine on the turn we discover ironworking.

Somewhat longer term: I think 2 galleys, one NE and one SW of Sparta should block all at-war approaches and give us a few turns notice if we see a warload (i.e. troops but no settler) on galleys.

 

[Sir Bugsy]

Looks like IW is the tech of choice. The newbie would have gone for pottery because I like cottages. I am playing now.

 

[Sir Bugsy]

Copy down the “Do This Bugsy” List. Try to load the game on HOF mod .008 and find out there is now a .009. Download .009 and try again. It works this time.

Pre-flight – Change tech to IW from pottery, due in 24. Check the cities, and there isn’t a thing to do.

1270 - Whip the obelisk in St. Pete. Start chopping the forest in Moscow.

St. Pete: Obelisk=>boat

1240 -

1210 –

1180 – Moscow grows so I place the new citizen on the mine to get the build down to 13 turns. We can’t grow much beyond four until the whip unhappiness goes away.

St. Pete: boat=>settler The list was a little vague. Mostly because no one thought the boat would finish in 3 turns. We need four workers and only have two. We need one more settler. I made a command decision and went with the settler.

1150 – We have 12 more turns until St. Pete’s culture expands, so I decide to sail our workboat over and meet the new civ, six turns over, six turns back.

1120 –

1090 –

1060 – The settler is in place. I go back to the thread to make sure I have the right location. Found Novgorod. The fish is not available to be used since St. Pete hasn’t expanded yet. It is only making 1 CPT and needs 15 to grow. Start with an obelisk.

The forest chops have the pyramids down to two turns.

1030 – I spot a city to the west a turn early so I divert and meet Gandhi.

IBT – We get this news:

I select a galley next.

1000 – Start some mines in Moscow.

That’s ten turns and a good place to stop. We probably want to change our civics.

IW is due in 18. Hope I didn’t mess things up by thinking outside the box on the Gandhi thing. St. Pete still won't grow for another six turns and the work boat will be on station in four.

Here is our civ:

Save: http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm3/The_Real_Ms_Beyond_SG003_BC1000_01.Civ4SavedGame

Edit - I just realized I wasted a worker turn on that mine north of Moscow. We would be better off moving him to start a road towards St. Pete.

 

[greggo]

Nice turnset Bugsy.

I liked going over to meet Ghandi - the boat wouldn't have been doing anything else useful, and a better world-picture will be good.

I'm glad we got pyramids in - are we going for representation as our civic? Ironworking's still 18 turns, with pottery next, so we're set for tech for a few sets. Also nice to see that founding Novgorod didn't seem to drop our tech - still at 90% from the screenshot.

I don't want to speak for Iainuki, but I believe when he said that he had build orders ready, he meant notes on what to build, not orders issued in game.

 

[LKendter]

REMOVED - Bugsy already played, so no reason to comment on his turn. Should have read the whole thread before responding.

 

[LKendter]

REMOVED - Bugsy already played, so no reason to comment on his turn. Should have read the whole thread before responding.

 

[Compromise]

Quick post here:

Pyramids...nice! Good turns Bugsy.

The next natural stopping point seems to be Ironworking. 18 turns might be a bit long, but I don't mind if Iainuki plays till then. Otherwise, I'll play a short set (can play on Monday).

Priorities: The best defense.

 

[Sir Bugsy]

I would think defense, exploration, one settler and two workers would be the immediate priority.

 

[Iainuki]

I just noticed now that I crossposted with Iainuki:

Moscow has already built the settler. Moscow's build order is this:

Pyramids. The workers are chopping the second forest along the river. Keep chopping until its finished!

I don't mean to be critical, but issuing build orders and go-to orders in an SG are usually bad form. Either you can trust your teammates or don't play.
You need to trust your teammates

Thanks for the detailed instructions. I don't use the whip that heavily, so it is good that you told me.

I really shouldn't try to post that quickly--I was missing important details. Sorry about that!

I meant that those were my suggested build orders--you should feel free to do what you want, of course! I do think it's appropriate to get group agreement on the early stages of the game, because everything is more important, but I'm not trying to overrule the other players on the team

Speaking of this, I'm now soliciting guidance for what I should be doing. (Providing that my Civ-computer is working now *cross fingers*).

 

[LKendter]

1150 – We have 12 more turns until St. Pete’s culture expands, so I decide to sail our workboat over and meet the new civ, six turns over, six turns back.

IW is due in 18. Hope I didn’t mess things up by thinking outside the box on the Gandhi thing. St. Pete still won't grow for another six turns and the work boat will be on station in four.

We do need contacts, so it was a good move. We are close enough to city #2 that we shouldn't get burned.

 

[Sir Bugsy]

I was falling back on Civ III habits. I found that Civ IV won't let you have a build queue unless you have invested shields into the build already.

Yes you are correct, at this stage we need a lot of concensus. The "Do This Bugsy" list was most helpful.

 

[Atlas]

I was falling back on Civ III habits. I found that Civ IV won't let you have a build queue unless you have invested shields into the build already.

Huh? Just use the shift or ctrl keys depending on where you want it.

 

[Iainuki]

Great turns Bugsy. Having the Pyramids in hand makes me feel a lot better about this game. I also didn't expect the workboat to finish so soon, but scouting out Gandhi was a good use of its time, and we didn't really have anything else we could build in St. Pete that would still allow the workboat to finish on time for the fish.

 

[Kodii]

Looks great! Our olive green line has shot up above the rest of the pack

I'll cook up a summary post so that Iainuki can play later today. Great work guys!

 

[Iainuki]

Unless people want me to, I'm not inclined to rush my turns. I think we have lots of decisions to make, both short-term and medium-term. Here are some ideas:

1) What order do we put our subsequent techs in? I'm leaning to Iron Working, Agriculture (we can start chopping those rice fields, and save beakers on Pottery), Pottery, Writing, Alphabet, Polytheism, Literature.

2) Are we attacking someone? If so, who and when?

3) How many workers do we need?

I'm sure there's more, but I don't see what it is right now.

 

[Kodii]

SUMMARY POST #5

Compromise (on deck)
greggo
LKendter
grangerm
Kodii
Sir Bugsy (just played)
Iainuki (UP)

Diplomacy -

Mao and Alex may declare on us soon in the future. Build up defences!

Do we want to befriend India? Or wipe him out later?

Technology

Iron Working – Agriculture

Settling -

New Dotmap

Green Dot - First Priority
White Dots - Fishing Villages

Builds -

Moscow
Galley - Lighthouse

St. Petersburg
Settler - Worker

Novrogod
Obelisk - Worker

Religion

Let it spread to us.

Great People

We have GE points accumulating in Moscow. The Engineer will probably help build the GL.

Civics

Switch to Representation right away.

Fogbusting

Our island is successfully fogbusted

Notes

Consider the points Iainuki posted above. We need to make some decisions before the next turnset.

 

[Sir Bugsy]

If we are attacking someone, I would go after Alex. For one the proximity makes the logistics much easier. We will need to go in force. I would think axes at a minimum. If we can bring swords even better (*crosses fingers that we have iron*). I would take at least eight units on the initial landing. we need to expect a very strong counterattack.

Edit - I would befriend Gandhi. The guy is usually very passive.

 

[Kodii]

Just a quick note: If the workboat goes along the south island to explore, it should come back to the fish on time.