SGOTM 03 - The Real Ms. Beyond

Kodii · Jan 20, 2007

LKendter said:
Well I now have NO question I am not suited for the SGOTM. While I will finish out this commitment, I will not sign up for another round. I can't play on a team that gambles like this.

The unfortunate thing is that such gambles must be taken if we want to win. I'm sure other teams have taken even bigger gambles than we have. I personally have no problem with leaving cities like Moscow empty, in fact, I do it all the time in my solo games. Then again, I can see where you're coming from. Sometimes, its a good thing to take risks though.

Fortune favors the bold.

Iainuki · Jan 20, 2007

It doesn't look like Izzy had a GE--I don't know how she completed it so fast. My only guess is that Madrid has better base production than we do, and she was in Bureaucracy so built it faster. Oh well. We seem to have spent a lot of time missing out on wonders this game.

Compromise · Jan 20, 2007

I'm feeling pretty lucky that we got the Pyramids and the Great Library. The more I think about it, the more I think the use of that first engineer for metalcasting was just genius. I can't wait to see what other teams did.

Question: When estimating our future tech rate, do others think it's reasonable to use our present numbers? More cities will cost more in maintenance, but will bring more in income both immediately (upon capture) and eventually (by working commerce squares or generating specialist research for us). Do we estimate those will roughly balance and keep our present tech/gold rates roughly the same as now?

I'm more and more liking the idea of getting Chemistry, then beelining for state property, then Mass Media.

Gyathaar · Jan 21, 2007

LKendter said:
Well I now have NO question I am not suited for the SGOTM. While I will finish out this commitment, I will not sign up for another round. I can't play on a team that gambles like this.

Well, you could sign up your own team and make them play after your LK rules if you wish..

Compromise · Jan 21, 2007

We need LK to keep us from abandoning all our cities!

I was looking around the map for other spots to send settlers. Looks like Mansa grabbed the spot north of us. (We should grab that after a sweep of the Incan, Egyptian, Mali continent.)

I did, however, find two spots on the Chinese island that we might consider settling. The first, south of Shanghai, is almost a no-brainer with unshared cows and clams (either north or south of the river would work:

The other is a clams site east of Shanghai:

Not sure what our priority rating should be for these. After the conquest (edit: conquest of China) for sure.

Compromise · Jan 21, 2007

Another quick thought: I think we should take the whole Greek/Chinese continent. Tianjin's fish should be far enough from Persian culture to remain in our grasp. And if we don't take Chengdu, it's culture, probably boosted by being the new Chinese capital, will be a pain.

And I don't see any reason to let Alex live on in Thermopylae (which appears to be his only remaining city).

Compromise · Jan 21, 2007

Some more quick thoughts: It looks like we'll need about 500 more population points to be able to vote ourselves the winners. (Growth in our present cities counts as half since they add both to our total and the overall total.)

The rest of China/Greece (that we don't already own) is probably 70 pop.

The Huayna, Hatty, Mansa continent is probably about 150 pop. (Though I don't see a need to capture cities east of Djenne.)

So, those two continents are about half of the additional cities we need.

Isabella and Kublai's islands look pretty good foodwise. So does the northern part of Japan.

I think we should relieve America of its Philadelphia, Atlanta, Chicago island. Maybe the Washington, New York island too, though I'm not sure about that.

Toward the end, we might need to do a quick blitz on some backwards civ to get cities. Then, time the UN diplo victory vote before the cities come out of rebellion, so there's no real increase in land. (Otherwise, Mao and Caesar might get a few heavily whipped cities returned to them.)

Maybe the eastern part of the barb island (barb city is Hsung-Nu) north of our starting island.

The spread-out nature of these acquisitions leads me to favor state property as our economic civic. Depending on the speed of our conquest, we'll probably want to research this before going on to Physics.

We probably want to avoid culture-generating buildings from here on out. Just let religion slowly pop our borders. High-cottage cities are a possible exception.

At size 10, St. Pete will be able to grow while assigning 6 scientists for a GPP rate of 84/T. That's great. We could also build a forge there and run an engineer too. That would further dilute the artist chances. Also, it would allow us to run 7 specialists after Scientific Method.

Our next great person costs 1350 (then 1500, then 1650) and all of our future great people will almost certainly come from St. Pete. I think we should expect to generate about 3, maybe four more great people. I expect them to be scientists whom we can spend on Sci Method, Physics, then 2 on Electricity. (We can burn three on Electricity without sacrifcing any beakers.)

I think we should hold off on Scientific Method--just research chemistry and stockpile cash--until one of the AIs gets it. (Unless we want state property quicker!) At that point, we can burn through cash to Mass Media. Maybe with a detour to communism for State Property if that seems appealing (and I think it does).

German, Persian and Aztec lands are pretty bad for food.

We might be able to do more city capturing, then pillage like crazy, whip to size one, and return to original owner. Every citizen we whip away in an AI city is half a citizen we don't have to assign to a tile.

Victoria has Banking, so I don't think we'll be able to get the Economics Great Merchant.

We can bribe Hatty into war with Huayna for Printing Press, our map, and a little gold. But Huayna "has enough" on his hands, so he may be planning to do it for us shortly. A war between the two should soften both up for us.

And let's remember Iainuki's admonition to set city governors. I think governor on, emphasize growth and production is a good default.

Athens should be phenomenal with Heroic Epic and Globe. Grow to size 5 and whip. We should get a new cossack every 4 turns or so. Nice. Note that this may free up some tiles south of Athens for yet another city on the Greek/Chinese island.

Okay, I think that's enough for now. Maybe some material here for Kodii's next summary post.

Sir Bugsy · Jan 21, 2007

I do agree with Lee that leaving Moscow undefended is not a wise move, especially given the weakness of our navy. Until we have frigates, we need a strong homeland defense.

I would press home the attack on Mao until we either own his continent or he is willing to pay handsomely for his sins.

Kodii · Jan 22, 2007

One of the following two will be delayed:

Summary Post
My Turnset

If I do one, I won't have the time to complete the other. Are you guys itching to keep things moving at a smooth rate, or would you rather stop to get a summary of what is to come instead? Let me know, and I'll decide later tonight.

Compromise · Jan 22, 2007

I'd rather see you play. In the immediate term, our goal is pretty clearly the conquering of all (or at least most, but I vote for all) of the Greek/Chinese island.

We can discuss longer term goals about research direction after your turnset. (If you want to grab chemistry for frigates, I doubt anyone would complain.)

LKendter · Jan 22, 2007

I agree at this point we want China gone. The only difference I think between players is how willing we are to leave the homeland stripped to do it.

Compromise · Jan 22, 2007

For the record, even my eyes popped open when I read that Moscow was being "guarded" by a great engineer.

Speaking of which, we probably should pull our St Pete great scientist inside some city walls.

Kodii · Jan 22, 2007

I'll probably take a little bit of time to redefend our mainland cities. I'll try to play now.

grangerm · Jan 22, 2007

I had the last axe give our GE some instruction on where the best place to strike with his book would be before he set sail

Kodii · Jan 22, 2007

Wow, my computer sure is moving slowly...

Turn 0 - I move our GS into St. Petersburg just in case.

IBT - We are the third most advanced civilization. I can only assume others have gone down the Banking path.

Turn 1 - We get the cash from the Taj Mahal. One more turn of zero science will get us enough cash to get Chemistry. Mao has Musketmen...

Turn 2 - Dancing boats and war preparation...

Turn 3 - Hohum...

Turn 4 - I foolishly allow a Chinese knight to pillage the Spartan iron. Oh well. I returned the favor through a newly landed Cossack.

Turn 5 - Cyrus switches to war civics. Who could he want to declare on? He HATES Monty, so maybe him. Ah. He is already at war :blush:

Turn 6 - Ladeeda~

Turn 7 - Chemistry comes in! Frigates and Grenadiers are very in! I turn off research to save for possible mass upgrades!

Turn 8 - *thumb twiddle*

Turn 9 -

Turn 10 - Hatty switches to war-time civics, and declares war on Monty.

And thats it. Not much action. A lot of city growing. I'll put up the save now.

EDIT: http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm3/The_Real_Ms_Beyond_SG003_AD1520_01.Civ4SavedGame

Boring Turnlog:

Spoiler :

Compromise · Jan 22, 2007

Okay, looks like a fairly standard military buildup turnset. I haven't looked at the save yet.

It sure is nice to hear that the AIs are finally warring with each other. I guess they don't want to be the next Caesar....

Compromise
greggo
LKendter
grangerm
Kodii (just played)
Sir Bugsy (UP)
Iainuki (on deck)

Any advice for Sir Bugsy?

Kodii · Jan 22, 2007

I think another turnset of building might be good. We only have a couple of Cossacks, with a few more coming in the next two turns. We can probably move on to either Beijing or Nanjing. The problem with going to Nanjing, is the number of units there. The problem with going to Beijing, is that it leaves our cities vulnerable to the troops in Nanjing. I think we should only advance when we feel confident.

Sir Bugsy · Jan 22, 2007

I think I have a pretty good handle on the miltary tactics portion of the turnset. I am a firm believer in only moving forward when one can hold what one already has. I will evaluate that based on available intel. I really need to know where the team wants to go with other things. What are we building in our new cities? What is the plan for our Roman island? If you give me some direction on those items I'll play tomorrow evening. The game is probably too advanced for a "to do" list, but general direction is a good thing to give me.

Compromise · Jan 22, 2007

And we've got to get the Athens military complex (Barracks+Heroic Epic+Globe Theater) up asap.

Out of curiosity: If you lose a city in which you've built a national wonder, it's gone for good, right?

When I looked at the save before Kodii's turnset, it looked like many of Nanjing's troops were loaded on boats. In my experience, the AI rarely unloads them unless you're right next to the city.

Do we have any intel on the troops in Beijing?

Compromise · Jan 23, 2007

Good luck, Bugsy!

SGOTM 03 - The Real Ms. Beyond

Ka ICE

Warlord

Emperor

Warlock

Emperor

Emperor

Emperor

Civ.D.

Ka ICE

Emperor

Exterminate, exterminate, exterminate!!!

Emperor

Ka ICE

Warlord

Ka ICE

Emperor

Ka ICE

Civ.D.

Emperor

Emperor

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