SGOTM 04 - Gypsy Kings

Ronnie1 · Apr 27, 2007

The roster order is:

da_Vinci - on deck
Jon Shaw - in the hole
Conquistador 63 - on holiday till further notice
g_storrow - skipped
Ronnie1 - just played
Immaculate -UP NOW

A verrrry boring turnset for me. I made peace with Kahn for Engineering. I traded Astronomy around for all I could get (see logs for notes). I refounded the 2 city sites we talked about. I started building Galleons. We are 1 turn from Gunpowder. We can still declare on Kahn this turn and finish him off, have fun Imac!

The Upload Log

Spoiler :

The Autolog

Spoiler :

Oh Yea, Hannibal has Rifles!! :lol:

g_storrow · Apr 27, 2007

nice turnset.

The one thing that concerns me is why there is no jewish monastery in our two jewish cities. I mentioned this a long time ago but gandhi devintely bought the temple of soloman so one way to defintely improve gandhis science is for us to spread judaism like wildfire.

I assume we are teching to steel and then attacking hannibal.
What concerns me with hannials closest cities is that they will be too close to gandhi when he gets the whole island and will be able to attack is easily if we we move along te island or start to arrakc brennus or whoever is to give the island city and maybe a coupel on the eastern tip of that continet to our ally NOT g as the AI is rubbish at attacking from distance (i.e probably somewhere in algorithm if a city is far away it devotes less resources to attacking them/us.
further ideas are to get the top lot is to fight amougst ourselves to slow down there teching. we need to get maty with some of these so we can force them into war ( which we have done with the religion) have we decided who is gonig to be best mate?) or jsut sucking up to all buddist in general. as we need to stop trading with there enemies.

If I can jump in I will probably have some time to play this evening.

Immaculate · Apr 27, 2007

The reasons you outlined regarding Hannibal's territory are why i think we are better off in Brenus' lands.

If i remember the map right, Hannibal is stuck in the middle (nearer to Ghandi) while brennus is at the other end of the continent (but only across the ocean from us)... So if we take hannibal's land we are stuck between two civs with well-established culture (which will wreck havoc on our cultural barriers and ability to develop-tech/build/grow) and much closer to ghandi (so we'll have to keep fighting him continually). Whereas if we go across the ocean (brennus's land) we only have to worry about one civ's culture and we are much further from Ghandi. (maybe i don't remember the map right though?)

Also, i don't think slowing the planet's tech rate is a great idea. We can ensure ghandi doesn't get beat to the space race by declaring on his competition, but we can't directly boost his science rate too much.... if we slow the planet's science rate, we are also slowing ghandi's science rate.

Immac.

PS: Go ahead R1.... I can't play saturday but i can play sunday.

da_Vinci · Apr 27, 2007

Immaculate said:
Ummm... you sure about that? (regarding who benefits more from Cibola)

Not sure at all! :lol:

Just throwing out ideas for disucssion. Wasn't at the game when I wrote it ... I now see that G is also philosophical, so he can use GLib just as well as we can, or better.

Unless he already has sci meth? If we get there later, maybe better for us to keep it as it goes obsolete later in our hands?

Immaculate said:
I do believe it has an academy so it may be wiser (IMHO) to specialize it towards science (cottages). when we gift it later, it becomes a great tool for G to get late-game space-faring techs.

Immac.

Cottages as opposed to GS? Maybe get one more GS out of it, then focus on cottages as you say?

Let's not slow the world science rate.

Hannibal is attractive because I think he is closer and less advanced (that might have changed). My overall idea is to have the army at one end of our empire, moving forward say westward, while we fall back in the east and allow G to take cities gradually. Brennus first may fit that approach as well perhaps.

Maintenance in next opponent's cities is an issue we need to keep in mind.

Now to look at the save.

Looks like g_s is going to go next? Sounds good ... finish off Khan, keep the city, but don't declare on anyone new until we have some consensus on who!

dV

Immaculate · Apr 27, 2007

i meant that we, as ragnar, are aggressive and financial and not philosophical. At first i thought you were kidding, but i think you forgot...

da_Vinci · Apr 27, 2007

OK, latest thoughts ...

Immac, the Brennus idea has merit! :goodjob:

While Hannibal is closer to our nearest border with him, Brennus is actually closer to our capital (at least his western tip is). So Brennus works from a mantenance point of view.

We will have chemistry in 15 turns I think. Grenadiers should be able to take rifles once the city defenses are down, so grens + cats can go on the attack. Frigates can bombard coast to speed up the process.

So ... Hannibal or Brennus?

I like Hannibal for a few reasons ...

He appears to be more advanced than Brennus in tech. Once at war, G will get mutual military struggle points with Hannibal, so maybe they can trade some techs? Or is Brennus a better trading partner for G (or some other leader, for that matter)?

We can attack two of Hannibal's cities pretty easily after grens: the one on our land (I'd keep it ... has fish and some hills to work) and the island one that he can't reinforce well. That is fast cash for upgrading to grenadiers.

Logistics are easier going west ... less sealift time, less risk. Need fewer galleons to get at Hannibal.

The fact that G can get at Hannibal's land may be a good thing ... we want to give G those cities too eventually!

Hannibal has 5 wonders and a shrine, while Brennus has 3 wonders and a shrine. And perhaps we could get Washington to join us against Hannibal eventually.

So I'm thinkning Hannibal as target after Khan dies. I think Brennus works too, but Hannibal works better. Easier to do faster, and more gains (wonders) to be had.

If we build palace in city of Carthage, maybe put FP in Karakorum? Or save that for somewhere else?

On the trade front ... we might have to do "chip away wars" ... rather than aim for the complete destruction of a civ, fight it a while to allow it to trade with G, then make peace and fight another one to allow that one to trade with G, etc. I'm thinking that alternating wars with Hannibal and Brennus might be needed, but the WW could be a hassle.

I also like g_s's idea of spreading judaism ... if we could convert some other civs to that, G would have more trade partners. I might not spread it in our cities, as then G gets to look inside them. :eek:

Maybe put judaism in a city of ours when we want G to take it.

dV

da_Vinci · Apr 27, 2007

Immaculate said:
i meant that we, as ragnar, are aggressive and financial and not philosophical. At first i thought you were kidding, but i think you forgot...

OOPS! ... still thinking I'm Alexander in GOTM 17 :blush:

Well, then maybe we give Cibola to G after chemistry, or at least after steel?

dV

g_storrow · Apr 27, 2007

da_Vinci said:
I also like g_s's idea of spreading judaism ... if we could convert some other civs to that, G would have more trade partners. I might not spread it in our cities, as then G gets to look inside them. Maybe put judaism in a city of ours when we want G to take it.

dV

I personally don't think it makes any difference if G can see inside our or anyone else's cities.

Also I noticed in a couple of the cities we had kaka and another we are going for commerce almost exclusively and not working any hammer tiles. Are we gunning for science big style for cannons?

Sorry I forgot but what are our troop building cities? ie HE and military special people?

Another idea is it worth getting education for being able to build academies obviously after steel? we might even have it. I hope not or I will look as foolish as DV

Ronnie1 · Apr 27, 2007

Also I noticed in a couple of the cities we had kaka and another we are going for commerce almost exclusively and not working any hammer tiles. Are we gunning for science big style for cannons?

Sorry I forgot but what are our troop building cities? ie HE and military special people?

Nidaros is the always Military city, nothing but Troops (except the quick WB to get it growing again). We have the HE there and 3 settled Generals, producing new ground units starting with 11xp (CR3 Berserkers and Trebs/Cannons out of the gate). I would continue to produce Trebs right now. Karakorum is building Commerce and Population ASAP. We still need CH's in the south to cut maintenance.

I hope everyone starts their turnset by reviewing all of the cities, evaluating needs based on maintenance requirements and the cities purpose in life. Commerce cities need to focus on commerce unless an emergency arises forcing troop production etc. Nidaros builds troops until it approaches happy cap and then maybe use the whip on a building that we don't get the HE bonus for.

As for Imac's Brennus plan. Once upon a time I suggested something like that as a possibility. Sail a large fleet to a foreign capitol and make it our own. It just needs to be a large fleet, if we go for that move, failure is not an option.

PS: Go ahead R1.... I can't play saturday but i can play sunday.

I already played...so we'll stick gs back in the loop here.

The roster order is:

da_Vinci - in the hole
Jon Shaw - waiting
Conquistador 63 - on holiday till further notice
g_storrow - UP NOW
Ronnie1 - just played
Immaculate -on deck

da_Vinci · Apr 27, 2007

Ronnie1 said:
As for Imac's Brennus plan. Once upon a time I suggested something like that as a possibility. Sail a large fleet to a foreign capitol and make it our own. It just needs to be a large fleet, if we go for that move, failure is not an option.

But do you like that better than going for Hannibal? See my several reasons to favor the Hannibal attack, and see if you think one or the other is a better trading partner for G: one bonus of us going to war is that the target gets chummy with G.

How large is large fleet: 6 ships (18 units)? 8 ships (24 units)? With Hannibal, we can shuttle the ships, so don't need as many.

Ronnie1 said:
I already played...so we'll stick gs back in the loop here.

The FLIP instead of the SKIP. I like it.

dV

Ronnie1 · Apr 27, 2007

But do you like that better than going for Hannibal? See my several reasons to favor the Hannibal attack, and see if you think one or the other is a better trading partner for G: one bonus of us going to war is that the target gets chummy with G.

I'm not sure right now, we probably should have discussed it sooner. The biggest advantage I see in going at Hannibal next is that we can do it right now. The problem is that any and all warring by the AI's slows the world science rate at some point. I think we need to take a closer look at all the factors and have a bit of discussion before we make any final decisions.

g_storrow · Apr 28, 2007

General turn set:

finsihed off khan. washington ask me to stop deals with brennus I didnt.
built two jewish monasteris. abotu to churn out first missionary.
destroyed soem of gandhis fleet unsure on that front. it is good as cuts down his supply costs but he might build them again.
got PP off isabella 4 astronomy and shoudl be able to get RP of her when we finsih chem.
after we get steel I think we shut down research improve army and kick ass!

Other news Brenns and gandhi have settled on our bit of teh island Gandhi right in the middle of out cites v strange.Only 1 longbowman but left alone. WE might be able to get brennus off with cutlure. decided to build another settler for deserty bit SE of florence as the AI will fill that in if we dont. Unsure on exact city placement.

Have got GE unsure what to do with him. he helps with RP but we should be able to get that off isabella. Mianly built beserkers espically in NId as you cna set them to CR3 then upgrade them to grenadiers and they kick Riflemans ass.

I personally think we go after brennus as and nothing in this turnset has made me change my mind hannibal is too close to gandhi for my liking. isabella is alreay fighting him so we get in with her
I did 10 turn set prob 11 in all possiblity. WE probably have too many troops at time being and it is cripilling our ecomony sooner we can have brennus land finsih him off and let gandhi have island to self. the better. then we can just spread judaism. important note make sure we get at least 1 jewish monastery built if not more in brennus/our lands before we get scientific method.

Here is your Session Turn Log from 1418 AD to 1484 AD:

Turn 293, 1418 AD: Traded Philosophy to Isabella for Paper, WM, and 190G
Turn 293, 1418 AD: Gypsy Kings's Galleon (4.40) vs Gandhi's Caravel (3.60)
Turn 293, 1418 AD: Combat Odds: 73.8%
Turn 293, 1418 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 293, 1418 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 293, 1418 AD: (Plot Defense: +10%)
Turn 293, 1418 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 22 (78/100HP)
Turn 293, 1418 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 22 (56/100HP)
Turn 293, 1418 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 22 (34/100HP)
Turn 293, 1418 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 22 (12/100HP)
Turn 293, 1418 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 22 (0/100HP)
Turn 293, 1418 AD: Gypsy Kings's Galleon has defeated Gandhi's Caravel!
Turn 293, 1418 AD: You have declared war on Genghis Khan!
Turn 293, 1418 AD: You have discovered Gunpowder!
Turn 293, 1418 AD: You have trained a Work Boat in Nidaros. Work has now begun on a Pikeman.
Turn 293, 1418 AD: Isabella adopts Theocracy!

Turn 294, 1424 AD: Gypsy Kings's Caravel (3.60) vs Genghis Khan's Caravel (3.00)
Turn 294, 1424 AD: Combat Odds: 70.3%
Turn 294, 1424 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 294, 1424 AD: Gypsy Kings's Caravel is hit for 18 (82/100HP)
Turn 294, 1424 AD: Gypsy Kings's Caravel is hit for 18 (64/100HP)
Turn 294, 1424 AD: Gypsy Kings's Caravel is hit for 18 (46/100HP)
Turn 294, 1424 AD: Genghis Khan's Caravel is hit for 21 (79/100HP)
Turn 294, 1424 AD: Gypsy Kings's Caravel is hit for 18 (28/100HP)
Turn 294, 1424 AD: Gypsy Kings's Caravel is hit for 18 (10/100HP)
Turn 294, 1424 AD: Genghis Khan's Caravel is hit for 21 (58/100HP)
Turn 294, 1424 AD: Genghis Khan's Caravel is hit for 21 (37/100HP)
Turn 294, 1424 AD: Genghis Khan's Caravel is hit for 21 (16/100HP)
Turn 294, 1424 AD: Genghis Khan's Caravel is hit for 21 (0/100HP)
Turn 294, 1424 AD: Gypsy Kings's Caravel has defeated Genghis Khan's Caravel!
Turn 294, 1424 AD: You have discovered a source of Gems near Nidaros!
Turn 294, 1424 AD: Gandhi adopts Mercantilism!

Turn 295, 1430 AD: Gypsy Kings's Galleon (4.80) vs Gandhi's Caravel (3.60)
Turn 295, 1430 AD: Combat Odds: 78.3%
Turn 295, 1430 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 295, 1430 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 295, 1430 AD: (Plot Defense: +10%)
Turn 295, 1430 AD: Gypsy Kings's Galleon is hit for 17 (83/100HP)
Turn 295, 1430 AD: Gypsy Kings's Galleon is hit for 17 (66/100HP)
Turn 295, 1430 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 23 (77/100HP)
Turn 295, 1430 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 23 (54/100HP)
Turn 295, 1430 AD: Gypsy Kings's Galleon is hit for 17 (49/100HP)
Turn 295, 1430 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 23 (31/100HP)
Turn 295, 1430 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 23 (8/100HP)
Turn 295, 1430 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 23 (0/100HP)
Turn 295, 1430 AD: Gypsy Kings's Galleon has defeated Gandhi's Caravel!
Turn 295, 1430 AD: Norbert Rillieux (Great Engineer) has been born in Nidaros (Gypsy Kings)!

Turn 296, 1436 AD: You have discovered Printing Press!

Turn 297, 1442 AD: Nidaros celebrates "We Love the Monarch Day"!!!

Turn 298, 1448 AD: Gypsy Kings's Catapult (5.00) vs Genghis Khan's Longbowman (7.50)
Turn 298, 1448 AD: Combat Odds: 7.3%
Turn 298, 1448 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 298, 1448 AD: (City Defense: +45%)
Turn 298, 1448 AD: (City Attack: -45%)
Turn 298, 1448 AD: Gypsy Kings's Catapult is hit for 24 (76/100HP)
Turn 298, 1448 AD: Gypsy Kings's Catapult is hit for 24 (52/100HP)
Turn 298, 1448 AD: Gypsy Kings's Catapult is hit for 24 (28/100HP)
Turn 298, 1448 AD: Gypsy Kings's Catapult is hit for 24 (4/100HP)
Turn 298, 1448 AD: Gypsy Kings's Catapult is hit for 24 (0/100HP)
Turn 298, 1448 AD: Genghis Khan's Longbowman has defeated Gypsy Kings's Catapult!
Turn 298, 1448 AD: Gypsy Kings's Berserker (8.80) vs Genghis Khan's Maceman (6.39)
Turn 298, 1448 AD: Combat Odds: 79.8%
Turn 298, 1448 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 298, 1448 AD: (Extra Combat: +20%)
Turn 298, 1448 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 298, 1448 AD: (City Attack: -85%)
Turn 298, 1448 AD: (Combat: -50%)
Turn 298, 1448 AD: (Combat: +75%)
Turn 298, 1448 AD: Gypsy Kings's Berserker is hit for 17 (83/100HP)
Turn 298, 1448 AD: Gypsy Kings's Berserker is hit for 17 (66/100HP)
Turn 298, 1448 AD: Genghis Khan's Maceman is hit for 22 (70/100HP)
Turn 298, 1448 AD: Genghis Khan's Maceman is hit for 22 (48/100HP)
Turn 298, 1448 AD: Genghis Khan's Maceman is hit for 22 (26/100HP)
Turn 298, 1448 AD: Genghis Khan's Maceman is hit for 22 (4/100HP)
Turn 298, 1448 AD: Gypsy Kings's Berserker is hit for 17 (49/100HP)
Turn 298, 1448 AD: Genghis Khan's Maceman is hit for 22 (0/100HP)
Turn 298, 1448 AD: Gypsy Kings's Berserker has defeated Genghis Khan's Maceman!
Turn 298, 1448 AD: Gypsy Kings's Berserker (8.80) vs Genghis Khan's Longbowman (5.21)
Turn 298, 1448 AD: Combat Odds: 95.1%
Turn 298, 1448 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 298, 1448 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 298, 1448 AD: (City Defense: +45%)
Turn 298, 1448 AD: (City Attack: -85%)
Turn 298, 1448 AD: Genghis Khan's Longbowman is hit for 25 (75/100HP)
Turn 298, 1448 AD: Gypsy Kings's Berserker is hit for 15 (85/100HP)
Turn 298, 1448 AD: Genghis Khan's Longbowman is hit for 25 (50/100HP)
Turn 298, 1448 AD: Genghis Khan's Longbowman is hit for 25 (25/100HP)
Turn 298, 1448 AD: Genghis Khan's Longbowman is hit for 25 (0/100HP)
Turn 298, 1448 AD: Gypsy Kings's Berserker has defeated Genghis Khan's Longbowman!
Turn 298, 1448 AD: Gypsy Kings's Berserker (11.20) vs Genghis Khan's Longbowman (6.21)
Turn 298, 1448 AD: Combat Odds: 96.1%
Turn 298, 1448 AD: (Extra Combat: -40%)
Turn 298, 1448 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 298, 1448 AD: (City Defense: +25%)
Turn 298, 1448 AD: (City Attack: -10%)
Turn 298, 1448 AD: (Combat: -25%)
Turn 298, 1448 AD: Gypsy Kings's Berserker is hit for 15 (85/100HP)
Turn 298, 1448 AD: Gypsy Kings's Berserker is hit for 15 (70/100HP)
Turn 298, 1448 AD: Gypsy Kings's Berserker is hit for 15 (55/100HP)
Turn 298, 1448 AD: Gypsy Kings's Berserker is hit for 15 (40/100HP)
Turn 298, 1448 AD: Genghis Khan's Longbowman is hit for 26 (64/100HP)
Turn 298, 1448 AD: Genghis Khan's Longbowman is hit for 26 (38/100HP)
Turn 298, 1448 AD: Genghis Khan's Longbowman is hit for 26 (12/100HP)
Turn 298, 1448 AD: Gypsy Kings's Berserker is hit for 15 (25/100HP)
Turn 298, 1448 AD: Genghis Khan's Longbowman is hit for 26 (0/100HP)
Turn 298, 1448 AD: Gypsy Kings's Berserker has defeated Genghis Khan's Longbowman!
Turn 298, 1448 AD: Gypsy Kings's Berserker (11.20) vs Genghis Khan's Catapult (4.54)
Turn 298, 1448 AD: Combat Odds: 99.7%
Turn 298, 1448 AD: (Extra Combat: -40%)
Turn 298, 1448 AD: (City Attack: -10%)
Turn 298, 1448 AD: Gypsy Kings's Berserker is hit for 13 (87/100HP)
Turn 298, 1448 AD: Genghis Khan's Catapult is hit for 30 (70/100HP)
Turn 298, 1448 AD: Genghis Khan's Catapult is hit for 30 (40/100HP)
Turn 298, 1448 AD: Genghis Khan's Catapult is hit for 30 (10/100HP)
Turn 298, 1448 AD: Gypsy Kings's Berserker is hit for 13 (74/100HP)
Turn 298, 1448 AD: Genghis Khan's Catapult is hit for 30 (0/100HP)
Turn 298, 1448 AD: Gypsy Kings's Berserker has defeated Genghis Khan's Catapult!
Turn 298, 1448 AD: Gypsy Kings's Spearman (4.80) vs Genghis Khan's Pikeman (8.64)
Turn 298, 1448 AD: Combat Odds: 3.0%
Turn 298, 1448 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 298, 1448 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 298, 1448 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 298, 1448 AD: (Combat: +25%)
Turn 298, 1448 AD: Genghis Khan's Pikeman is hit for 14 (76/100HP)
Turn 298, 1448 AD: Genghis Khan's Pikeman is hit for 14 (62/100HP)
Turn 298, 1448 AD: Gypsy Kings's Spearman is hit for 27 (73/100HP)
Turn 298, 1448 AD: Gypsy Kings's Spearman is hit for 27 (46/100HP)
Turn 298, 1448 AD: Gypsy Kings's Spearman is hit for 27 (19/100HP)
Turn 298, 1448 AD: Gypsy Kings's Spearman is hit for 27 (0/100HP)
Turn 298, 1448 AD: Genghis Khan's Pikeman has defeated Gypsy Kings's Spearman!
Turn 298, 1448 AD: Gypsy Kings's Berserker (8.80) vs Genghis Khan's Pikeman (2.56)
Turn 298, 1448 AD: Combat Odds: 100.0%
Turn 298, 1448 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 298, 1448 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 298, 1448 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 298, 1448 AD: (City Attack: -55%)
Turn 298, 1448 AD: (Combat: -50%)
Turn 298, 1448 AD: (Combat: +25%)
Turn 298, 1448 AD: Genghis Khan's Pikeman is hit for 31 (31/100HP)
Turn 298, 1448 AD: Genghis Khan's Pikeman is hit for 31 (0/100HP)
Turn 298, 1448 AD: Gypsy Kings's Berserker has defeated Genghis Khan's Pikeman!
Turn 298, 1448 AD: You have captured Ning-hsia!!!
Turn 298, 1448 AD: The Mongolian Civilization has been destroyed!!!
Turn 298, 1448 AD: Nidaros celebrates "We Love the Monarch Day"!!!
Turn 298, 1448 AD: Abu Bakr (Great Prophet) has been born in Bibracte (Brennus)!

Turn 299, 1454 AD: Gypsy Kings's Galleon (4.00) vs Gandhi's Caravel (3.60)
Turn 299, 1454 AD: Combat Odds: 71.6%
Turn 299, 1454 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 299, 1454 AD: (Plot Defense: +10%)
Turn 299, 1454 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 21 (79/100HP)
Turn 299, 1454 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 21 (58/100HP)
Turn 299, 1454 AD: Gypsy Kings's Galleon is hit for 18 (82/100HP)
Turn 299, 1454 AD: Gypsy Kings's Galleon is hit for 18 (64/100HP)
Turn 299, 1454 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 21 (37/100HP)
Turn 299, 1454 AD: Gypsy Kings's Galleon is hit for 18 (46/100HP)
Turn 299, 1454 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 21 (16/100HP)
Turn 299, 1454 AD: Gypsy Kings's Galleon is hit for 18 (28/100HP)
Turn 299, 1454 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 21 (0/100HP)
Turn 299, 1454 AD: Gypsy Kings's Galleon has defeated Gandhi's Caravel!
Turn 299, 1454 AD: Karakorum has grown to size 9
Turn 299, 1454 AD: Isabella's Golden Age has ended...

Turn 300, 1460 AD: Clearing a Forest has created 24 ? for Chehalis.
Turn 300, 1460 AD: The borders of Samarqand have expanded!
Turn 300, 1460 AD: Confucianism has spread in Haithabu.
Turn 300, 1460 AD: Hannibal's Golden Age has ended...
Turn 300, 1460 AD: St. Thomas Aquinas (Great Prophet) has been born in Washington (Washington)!

Turn 301, 1466 AD: The enemy has been spotted near OZ!
Turn 301, 1466 AD: Gypsy Kings's Galleon (4.00) vs Gandhi's Galley (2.40)
Turn 301, 1466 AD: Combat Odds: 96.8%
Turn 301, 1466 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 301, 1466 AD: (Plot Defense: +10%)
Turn 301, 1466 AD: Gandhi's Galley is hit for 25 (75/100HP)
Turn 301, 1466 AD: Gypsy Kings's Galleon is hit for 15 (85/100HP)
Turn 301, 1466 AD: Gypsy Kings's Galleon is hit for 15 (70/100HP)
Turn 301, 1466 AD: Gypsy Kings's Galleon is hit for 15 (55/100HP)
Turn 301, 1466 AD: Gandhi's Galley is hit for 25 (50/100HP)
Turn 301, 1466 AD: Gypsy Kings's Galleon is hit for 15 (40/100HP)
Turn 301, 1466 AD: Gandhi's Galley is hit for 25 (25/100HP)
Turn 301, 1466 AD: Gypsy Kings's Galleon is hit for 15 (25/100HP)
Turn 301, 1466 AD: Gandhi's Galley is hit for 25 (0/100HP)
Turn 301, 1466 AD: Gypsy Kings's Galleon has defeated Gandhi's Galley!
Turn 301, 1466 AD: You have trained a Berserker in Florence. Work has now begun on a Settler.
Turn 301, 1466 AD: Karakorum will grow to size 10 on the next turn
Turn 301, 1466 AD: Niels Bohr (Great Scientist) has been born in Delhi (Gandhi)!

Turn 302, 1472 AD: The enemy has been spotted near OZ!
Turn 302, 1472 AD: The enemy has been spotted near OZ!
Turn 302, 1472 AD: Mehmed II has 10 gold per turn available for trade
Turn 302, 1472 AD: OZ has grown to size 10
Turn 302, 1472 AD: Samarqand will grow to size 6 on the next turn
Turn 302, 1472 AD: Karakorum has grown to size 10
Turn 302, 1472 AD: Johann Wolfgang von Goethe (Great Artist) has been born in Kerkouane (Hannibal)!

Turn 303, 1478 AD: The enemy has been spotted near OZ!
Turn 303, 1478 AD: The enemy has been spotted near OZ!
Turn 303, 1478 AD: Gandhi has 8 gold per turn available for trade
Turn 303, 1478 AD: Samarqand has grown to size 6
Turn 303, 1478 AD: You have constructed a Jewish Monastery in Chehalis. Work has now begun on a Library.
Turn 303, 1478 AD: Hannibal adopts Free Market!
Turn 303, 1478 AD: Brennus has declared war on Isabella!
Turn 303, 1478 AD: New Tech(s) to trade: Isabella

Turn 304, 1484 AD: The enemy has been spotted near OZ!
Turn 304, 1484 AD: The enemy has been spotted near OZ!

da_Vinci · Apr 29, 2007

Nice work g_s! :goodjob:

There is one HUGE decison and a smaller set of issues facing us at this time:

Huge: go to war with Brennus now (after chemistry and tech trading in 3 turns), or not. He just declared on Izzy, so he is probably ready for her. His west most cities are plains, so no defense bonus. This may be our chance to catch him thinly defended in the west.

Cat + Grens vs. rifles (and grens if he gets chem in trade).

Maybe we should gift gunpowder to Izzy after a final trade with Brennus (chem for nat, educ or rep parts if we have to trade one last time with him).

Lesser detail is who to trade with when ... beware of trade with worst enemy points cutting us off. Mehmed is already WFYABTA ! :eek:

We might be able to get nat, educ and rep parts all for chem from 3 civs.

I don't have time to eval all this now as the dissertation defense is tomorrow, but thought I would put the issues on the table.

dV

Ronnie1 · Apr 29, 2007

Nice job g_s!

The roster order is:

da_Vinci - on deck
Jon Shaw - in the hole
Conquistador 63 - on holiday till further notice
g_storrow - waiting
Ronnie1 - waiting
Immaculate -UP NOW

Now for a look at the save.

Ronnie1 · Apr 30, 2007

Current Assets
Trebs - 0 Goal - 10
Cats - 9 Goal - Cannons - 10
Berserkers - 17 Goal - Grenadiers - 20
Axes - 8
Spears - 9 Goal - Pikes - 9
Mounted - 2HA Goal - Knights - 4-6
LB's + Crossbows - 5 + 1 Goal - 1.5 per city
Galleons - 3 Goal - 8-10
Caravels - 2 Goal - Frigates - 6-8

3 Turns to Chem at a 60% sustainable science rate if we set all cities to emphasize Food, Commerce and Science. Steel in an additional 21 turns at the same rate. I would not however use the city governors, I believe we can do a little bit better job of managing tiles use than they can. The rate should be maintainable at the minimum, and should improve as we improve our infrastrcture.

The real question is where to attack next? I am leaning towards Brennus as the score and power leader.

It is really unbelievable how poorly Gandhi is doing considering the relative ease of his starting position. He is next to last, barely ahead of Washington who is getting crushed by culture from 2 sides.

I'm not sure about the Missionary ploy as Gandhi has not built the Temple of Solomon! It will help IF he builds it in the future, but is that the best use of our resources right now?

City builds/uses

Nidaros - Trebs and Berserkers, I would prefer to start a campaign with about equal numbers of attacking units and seige weapons, and maybe 1/4 defensive units. Back filling mostly with seige weapons as I tend to sacrifice them if necessary. But CR3 Cannons will be the unit of choice out of Nidaros when they become available.

Ferrous - Galleons, non stop until we have 8 - 10 and then Frigates.

Cibola - I would finish the Observatory and then go for a Bank.

OZ - I would finish the Observatory and follow with a Harbor. The question here is when to pop rush? I would like to see OZ at size 8 or greater to utilize all of the currently improved tiles, so I would not pop rush until I could get it to 2 pop.

Florence - After the settler I would go Observatory.

Karakorum - Specialize towards Hammers, Finish Monastary, follow with Forbidden Palace!

Turfan - Observatory

Send the Missionary from Chehalis to Haithabu. Follow with Library's in both cities.

Ning-hsia - I would go for a Library 1st to begin to leverage the 2 towns. I would probably skip a Theatre here for quite some time, the Library will add enough culture also.

Gandhi's new city in the south can't be helping his economy. I think, contrary to what I said before, that we may want to consider razing it to spare him the burden of maintaining it.
Along those same lines, I would consider leaving Brennus's city in the south to try and put a drag on his resources as we attack his mainland. The same for Hannibals city in the N if we attack that direction.

I don't know if I would settle that last spot. It is very resource poor with no food, I might let someone else have it.

Those are my thoughts on the current state of affairs.

da_Vinci · Apr 30, 2007

Quick thought ... do we want to take cats (and maybe a few trebs) with Grens to take one city on Brennus west coast right away? Establish our toehold? Or is maint and cult pressure too severe for a one city adventure?

Would hate to see him wipe out Izzy and grow his power that much more! :eek:

But perhaps we are better off waiting until we are really ready?

dV

Immaculate · Apr 30, 2007

Sorry, i won't be able to play for another little while. I have guests from out of country visiting and it wouldn't appear polite to play solitary video games during their visit. Please skip me until the 10th of May.

Sorry.

PS: More cannon, less grens.

Ronnie1 · Apr 30, 2007

The roster order is:

da_Vinci - UP NOW Hope the defense went well!!
Jon Shaw - on deck
Conquistador 63 - on holiday till further notice
g_storrow - in the hole
Ronnie1 - waiting
Immaculate -skipped by request

da_Vinci · Apr 30, 2007

The defense went well ... they want me to make some changes of course, but nothing major.

Still don't feel that I have a consensus about whether we take a shot at Brennus now, while he is busy with Izzy, or wait until we have cannons.

If we whip up a few trebs, then cats to take down defense, a treb or two to soften up, then our mega promoted grens (upgrade the zerks) ought to rule.

Downside is culture pressure and maintenance ... probably not able to sustain an offensive for more than one or two cites at present in Brennus' territory.

Do we agree that we trade chemistry for as much tech as we can get? And gift Izzy gunpowder so she can trade for chem? I'll need to trade with Brennus first perhaps, because all that trade with Izzy will piss him off :lol:

Or if we don't go for Brennus right away, then maybe Hannibal is the better target? I think we can reinforce our troops more easily there.

I guess the big question is whether we benefit from going to war now, or if waiting for cannons is to our advantage.

Tonight I will finish GOTM 17, so probably play this one tomorrow. If I get the consensus today, I could play this one tonight though.

dV

Ronnie1 · Apr 30, 2007

I'm not sure who is currently around to give a consensus! I'm not sure I have consensus in myself. As I said before however, I'm leaning towards Brennus after he has a number of turns into his war with Isabella. I would scout his western cities with a caravel. I think a minimum of 6 Galleons even if we want to go before cannons. The top Berserkers will have no problems after they upgrade, but we obviously need to make some cash for upgrades. 3000G if we want to upgrade all Berserkers. I'm also not sure if I want to trade our 1 advantage over Brennus to him.

SGOTM 04 - Gypsy Kings

Deity

Prince

unerring

Gypsy Prince

unerring

Gypsy Prince

Gypsy Prince

Prince

Deity

Gypsy Prince

Deity

Prince

Gypsy Prince

Deity

Deity

Gypsy Prince

unerring

Deity

Gypsy Prince

Deity

Similar threads