SGOTM 04 - Trash Team
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
And the signal goes dead......
I hope they survived!
2 x99.9% fights, no losses.
Roster
Pigswill
Remconius
Stuge
Cam_H
Cabert
MrMahk - UP
Patagonia - On deck
the save
remconius
Deity
So far we dont seem to be able to reach any other civ. As was expected....
Maybe on the west of G, but somehow I doubt it.
I also noticed GK has another set of horses, no doubt planted there by Gyathaar. We can expect Keshiks headed for our happy civ soon (they ignore terrain penalties so they will plow through the jungle at great speed). We better defend our southern cities with some spears.
Let's grab the Barbarian city when it grows to size 2 and shut GK off from the rest of the island. It's defended by Archers, so we might need an axe or 2 more. Now that we got IW
I think city 3 should be next to grab the iron.
Maybe on the west of G, but somehow I doubt it.
I also noticed GK has another set of horses, no doubt planted there by Gyathaar. We can expect Keshiks headed for our happy civ soon (they ignore terrain penalties so they will plow through the jungle at great speed). We better defend our southern cities with some spears.
Let's grab the Barbarian city when it grows to size 2 and shut GK off from the rest of the island. It's defended by Archers, so we might need an axe or 2 more. Now that we got IW
I think city 3 should be next to grab the iron.
stuge
Emperor
Holy youknowwhat. Two rounds since I last checked in? We really picked up the pace, eh?
I think that the next player should play up to IW and then post some dotmap material. We can then present our views and decide on one plan to settle our cities.
I think that the next player should play up to IW and then post some dotmap material. We can then present our views and decide on one plan to settle our cities.
pigswill
fly (one day)
The game's certainly going fast; we've got IW already!
I am concerned that Uppsala is undefended with fog-of-war closer than our nearest defender.
Regarding cities. We definitely need to snag iron coz if nothing else it means we can build crossbows. We have a few potential spots for an iron city. I wouldn't be surprised to see Gandhi build a city to snag sheep and clams. We could have a sheep/iron city with a norther filler to grab the corn;we could have a sheep/iron/corn city instead.
I'm undecided about Mycenae. If we capture it we're going to be very tempted to build marble-based wonders which may or may not be a good thing. I seriously reckon that we should only build one world wonder. Great Lib is nice but takes us way off the optics beeline. Colossus is certainly an option. Another option might be Parthenon, not a major tech detour, not usually an AI favourite and would speed up GS production. If you reckon on a GS being worth 1000 beakers (1500 on epic) then producing 3GS instead of 2GS gives us 1500 free beakers; how would this compare to extra commerce from Colossus? On the other hand if we're not going for marble based wonders then we'd be better off razing Mycenae and building a replacement city two tiles north.
In the long term if we're thinking about gifting the continent to Gandhi (The Master Strategy) then we have to consider best dotmap not from our short term perspective but in terms of how the continent would best help Gandhi reach the stars.
I am concerned that Uppsala is undefended with fog-of-war closer than our nearest defender.
Regarding cities. We definitely need to snag iron coz if nothing else it means we can build crossbows. We have a few potential spots for an iron city. I wouldn't be surprised to see Gandhi build a city to snag sheep and clams. We could have a sheep/iron city with a norther filler to grab the corn;we could have a sheep/iron/corn city instead.
I'm undecided about Mycenae. If we capture it we're going to be very tempted to build marble-based wonders which may or may not be a good thing. I seriously reckon that we should only build one world wonder. Great Lib is nice but takes us way off the optics beeline. Colossus is certainly an option. Another option might be Parthenon, not a major tech detour, not usually an AI favourite and would speed up GS production. If you reckon on a GS being worth 1000 beakers (1500 on epic) then producing 3GS instead of 2GS gives us 1500 free beakers; how would this compare to extra commerce from Colossus? On the other hand if we're not going for marble based wonders then we'd be better off razing Mycenae and building a replacement city two tiles north.
In the long term if we're thinking about gifting the continent to Gandhi (The Master Strategy) then we have to consider best dotmap not from our short term perspective but in terms of how the continent would best help Gandhi reach the stars.
crossbow needs archery.
we don't know archery.
The only wonder we can use now is the colossus.
The great library isn't on our path.
I still think that that barb city (coastal and all this) is a lot better than razing.
Considering that I didn't respect the dotmap, one free gem city is
.
Of course, gems+horses is better than gems + marble in the late game.
On long term, our "dotmap city" is stronger. Anyway, I think this city will be settled by GK if we don't keep it.
For next city, I still think city n°5 is best.
we don't know archery.
The only wonder we can use now is the colossus.
The great library isn't on our path.
I still think that that barb city (coastal and all this) is a lot better than razing.
Considering that I didn't respect the dotmap, one free gem city is
.Of course, gems+horses is better than gems + marble in the late game.
On long term, our "dotmap city" is stronger. Anyway, I think this city will be settled by GK if we don't keep it.
For next city, I still think city n°5 is best.
remconius
Deity
Here's the adjusted dotmap. Give me more input and I can keep it up to date.
pigswill
fly (one day)
We could pick up archery later on (once we got machinery), by that time it'll only take a couple of turns.
I'm gonna hafta disagree and say in the short term a free city is very nice; in the long term a poorly placed city is not nice for Gandhi.
I'm gonna hafta disagree and say in the short term a free city is very nice; in the long term a poorly placed city is not nice for Gandhi.
remconius
Deity
The city isnt that bad, its got gems, marble, sugar and a bunch of coast.
Let me know your ideas and I can put them in the picture.
remconius
Deity
Had a look at the save. Here are some ideas for the next player.
Let's continue to run 2 scientists in the capital as much as possible. It still has +5 food. An early great scientist could be put to good use. We could wait two turns for the trireme, but I'd rather not wait.
I think the new city should build a library first, so we can keep GK out of our territory.
Let's continue to run 2 scientists in the capital as much as possible. It still has +5 food. An early great scientist could be put to good use. We could wait two turns for the trireme, but I'd rather not wait.
I think the new city should build a library first, so we can keep GK out of our territory.
pigswill
fly (one day)
Thoughts on southern cities:
Thoughts on northern cities:
Thoughts on northern cities:
Ok, I had a look at the save. I think we all agree that Phrygian would be better off cut into two cities- a horse/gems and a marble/corn, as illustrated in Pigswill's post above mine. However, I think it's safe to say that razing Phrygian, then founding horse/gems, then founding marble/corn wouldn't be a very good option because Genghis is bound to have a settler waiting nearby to gobble up a site- probably being marble/corn.
Therefore, I think the most daring option would be to rush a settler down to marble/corn, found it, then raze Phyrgian, and finally settle horse/gems. However, this does not seem feasible to me, because 1. we wouldn't be able to found sheep/iron up north, and 2. because of this, we would have to churn out a lot of axes (we wouldn't have swords'!), which would make the whole process take longer (Genghis might take Phyrgian in the meantime) or it would slow our production of settlers, infrastructure, and overall expansion.
That brings us to the safe option. Take and keep Phyrgian, while settling sheep/iron, building up infrastructure and some military. Sure it would be a waste of the horses and we would be giving marble to Genghis (who already has stone), but hey, any wonder he builds we plan on eventually capturing anyway
.
As of right now, I am leaning towards the safe option. However, as we all know, anything could happen in the next few turns, so no plan is 100% secure. I will also wait for a little more input from the rest of you before I play (which will probably be later tonight or tomorrow).
Therefore, I think the most daring option would be to rush a settler down to marble/corn, found it, then raze Phyrgian, and finally settle horse/gems. However, this does not seem feasible to me, because 1. we wouldn't be able to found sheep/iron up north, and 2. because of this, we would have to churn out a lot of axes (we wouldn't have swords'!), which would make the whole process take longer (Genghis might take Phyrgian in the meantime) or it would slow our production of settlers, infrastructure, and overall expansion.
That brings us to the safe option. Take and keep Phyrgian, while settling sheep/iron, building up infrastructure and some military. Sure it would be a waste of the horses and we would be giving marble to Genghis (who already has stone), but hey, any wonder he builds we plan on eventually capturing anyway
.As of right now, I am leaning towards the safe option. However, as we all know, anything could happen in the next few turns, so no plan is 100% secure. I will also wait for a little more input from the rest of you before I play (which will probably be later tonight or tomorrow).
pigswill
fly (one day)
My view is raze phrygian (earlier called mycenae coz I'm hopeless at barb city names), build horsegems, forget marblecorn.
My vote goes pretty firmly to forgetting Marble-Corn. I think the group has agreed that The Colossus is probably the only WoW we should consider building prior to Astronomy, and a Marble Quarry is only 'so-so' as a
-
-
tile. The distance maintenance and 'extra city' maintenance might cost us more than it's worth, and I agree with Mark that letting Genghis burn his s on Wonders mightn't be such a bad move if he grabs the Marble.
PhyrgianI am less certain on Phyrgian ... I actually saw it as a possible city site earlier in the game; coastal and river tiles in Fat-X with a balanced mix of resources with an emphasis on
. I think it's a comparable site - albeit mildly weaker - to the proposed one to the north of the Gems strengthened by the river, but because of its proximity, it's going to be slightly more expensive due to distance maintenance, while it could present itself as a more prominent target for Genghis (being closer to his borders) and it would take another turn to move troops down there from our northern cities in case it needed reinforcements. Unfortunately for Phyrgian - it would be a great spot to lay down some Cottages if it weren't a likely border city next to Mongolia where you know that Genghis' first move will be to send in his Horses and pillage the Cottages.
On the other hand, Settlers take so darn long on Epic to produce (I'm impatient!) that it seems wasteful to have Nidaros working on a Settler for a site that's arguably not that much better than Phyrgian when we've also got plans to expand in the north and at least one if not two cities in the west. There's a big opportunity cost in not founding another city in another one of our sweet-spot sites in order to get what I believe is only a marginally better location.
Ok, played my first ever turns of an SG! Not the greatest turns, but pretty informative and they leave some decisions to be made.
Inherited turn- 910 BC- Leave things as they are; Cabert left me with some heavily whipped and near-unhappy cities (which I don't mind as I don't whip often).
865 BC- Trireme finishes, I start it north for exploring, start axe to explore inland north and fogbust for eventual settler
835 BC- This complicates things...
820 BC-
Mongolian settler party heading towards the northwest. Nothing I can do, so I let them go
805 BC- Genghis adopts hereditary rule- monarchy already?!
790 BC-
Woooo!!! GP here we come, meaning shrine, meaning spread of religion. Way to go Gandhi!
745 BC- Our WB and trireme meet to the west of Gandhi- no more civs nearby (I have a full picture of his lands later)
Also in 745, Genghis settles:
670 BC- Where I end my turnset. Very eventful turn.
First, in the IBT:
-I say yes, next player can cancel in 10 turns
Then, Gandhi too adopts hereditary rule.
Horses are hooked up.
MC will finish next turn, here are tech options: (machinery- not shown- will take 35 turns)
Settler finishes in Nidaros, start chariot, but no hammers invested so switch to whatever.
Also, Upsalla will finish its granary and expand next turn:
Some info:
First, lands to the north to figure out where to settle:
Next, a refresher of the lands to the south. I currently have another axe on the way to the barb city, where they are opposed by 2 archers. Our axes would have favorable odds, but be careful as Genghis has an archer nearby to pounce if we fail.
Here is a map of Gandhi's lands:
Lastly, here is a picture of the tech screen. Gandhi got alphabet, and it shows that he does not have IW yet. However, I did see a spearman in his lands, so he must have copper too.
Roster
Pigswill - On deck
Remconius
Stuge
Cam_H
Cabert
MrMahk
Patagonia - UP
http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm4/Trash_Team_SG004_BC0670_01.CivWarlordsSave
Inherited turn- 910 BC- Leave things as they are; Cabert left me with some heavily whipped and near-unhappy cities (which I don't mind as I don't whip often).
865 BC- Trireme finishes, I start it north for exploring, start axe to explore inland north and fogbust for eventual settler
835 BC- This complicates things...
820 BC-
Mongolian settler party heading towards the northwest. Nothing I can do, so I let them go
805 BC- Genghis adopts hereditary rule- monarchy already?!
790 BC-
Woooo!!! GP here we come, meaning shrine, meaning spread of religion. Way to go Gandhi!
745 BC- Our WB and trireme meet to the west of Gandhi- no more civs nearby (I have a full picture of his lands later)
Also in 745, Genghis settles:
670 BC- Where I end my turnset. Very eventful turn.
First, in the IBT:
-I say yes, next player can cancel in 10 turns
Then, Gandhi too adopts hereditary rule.
Horses are hooked up.
MC will finish next turn, here are tech options: (machinery- not shown- will take 35 turns)
Settler finishes in Nidaros, start chariot, but no hammers invested so switch to whatever.
Also, Upsalla will finish its granary and expand next turn:
Some info:
First, lands to the north to figure out where to settle:
Next, a refresher of the lands to the south. I currently have another axe on the way to the barb city, where they are opposed by 2 archers. Our axes would have favorable odds, but be careful as Genghis has an archer nearby to pounce if we fail.
Here is a map of Gandhi's lands:
Lastly, here is a picture of the tech screen. Gandhi got alphabet, and it shows that he does not have IW yet. However, I did see a spearman in his lands, so he must have copper too.
Roster
Pigswill - On deck
Remconius
Stuge
Cam_H
Cabert
MrMahk
Patagonia - UP
http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm4/Trash_Team_SG004_BC0670_01.CivWarlordsSave
pigswill
fly (one day)
Solid set. Nice report with lots of screenshots. Not bad at all for first ever SG 
.
Nice to see Gandhi generating some GP points, hopefully he'll pop a shrine some time.
Haven't looked at the save yet but I'd reckon techwise we go for machinery, can't think of anything we really need off the bee-line. GS should pop for compass before we research machinery to set us up for optics. It would be nice to start a second GS to speed up optics lightbulb.
Interesting questions:
What do we do about barb cities, both reasonably placed but not optimally placed in terms of dotmap?
What, if anything, do we do about GK heading north?
Do we need chariots or stick with axes, maybe a spear or two bordering GK.
Are we definitely building Colossus? If so where?
We have a settler, where do we put our next city?
GK is currently cautious to us, there's still land left for expansion so unless we're really low on power we should be safe from attack at the moment (unless Gandhi bribes GK with techs of course ).
If we're going for Colossus then obvious place to start it is Nidaros. Whip forge, chop statue. Only consideration is potential GP contamination. Hopefully Nidaros will pop GS before Colossus completes.
.Nice to see Gandhi generating some GP points, hopefully he'll pop a shrine some time.
Haven't looked at the save yet but I'd reckon techwise we go for machinery, can't think of anything we really need off the bee-line. GS should pop for compass before we research machinery to set us up for optics. It would be nice to start a second GS to speed up optics lightbulb.
Interesting questions:
What do we do about barb cities, both reasonably placed but not optimally placed in terms of dotmap?
What, if anything, do we do about GK heading north?
Do we need chariots or stick with axes, maybe a spear or two bordering GK.
Are we definitely building Colossus? If so where?
We have a settler, where do we put our next city?
GK is currently cautious to us, there's still land left for expansion so unless we're really low on power we should be safe from attack at the moment (unless Gandhi bribes GK with techs of course
).If we're going for Colossus then obvious place to start it is Nidaros. Whip forge, chop statue. Only consideration is potential GP contamination. Hopefully Nidaros will pop GS before Colossus completes.
stuge
Emperor
My idea for the north.
Settle blue dot first, then capture Anjar, then settle pink dot.
As for Phyrgian, I'd rather raze it and found a new city 2N, but it's up to patagonia to decide whether or not to take the risk that GK will settle there. I think that the odds are in our favor as he just used up a settler.
As for the colossus, Nidaros certainly looks like the best city to build it.
As for the techs, how about going for mathematics next? I don't think we want to take GK on without catapults and it's a prerequisite for calendar, which we need for astronomy.
Settle blue dot first, then capture Anjar, then settle pink dot.
As for Phyrgian, I'd rather raze it and found a new city 2N, but it's up to patagonia to decide whether or not to take the risk that GK will settle there. I think that the odds are in our favor as he just used up a settler.
As for the colossus, Nidaros certainly looks like the best city to build it.
As for the techs, how about going for mathematics next? I don't think we want to take GK on without catapults and it's a prerequisite for calendar, which we need for astronomy.
Can I say 'Welcome to the Club?" ... Can I? ... Can I?
As for The Colossus ... Nidros is the only city that can build it. What ever happened to settling on the coasts and exploiting the
? (Good dot map btw Stuge! 
- although Gandhi's culture may swallow up 'blue')I've been wondering about Construction myself.
Can I say 'Welcome to the Club?" ... Can I? ... Can I?
As for The Colossus ... Nidros is the only city that can build it. What ever happened to settling on the coasts and exploiting the
I've been wondering about Construction myself.
And I thought I was being reasonable
Can you imagine I considered whipping the trireme too
?Anyway, with the forge and some gems, we would be haapy capped at size 9 in nidaros = whipping possible
I'd let nidaros grow over the happiness cap to whip it faster. Leaving out a irrigated corn seems wrong.
About next moves, I'd say settle blue spot city (iron) asap.
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