Conquistador 63
Deity
Yes we do have the GE. I doubt universities would help much, as our science rate is doomed to be low forever. FP (or Versailles) is a good idea.
SGOTM 05 - Gypsy Kings
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
da_Vinci
Gypsy Prince
You have a point about universities ... Karak has one, Athens is about to, maybe one more in Mecca is about all that are worth it.
I hope we don't end up needing Versailles
... do we even have the tech for it? FP in India should be enough for the cities we hold on that continent, until the final domimation push (or are we going conquest? 
)dV
Ronnie1
Deity
I like Oxford, or Ironworks if we are close to Steel would be even better!
da_Vinci
Gypsy Prince
Ironworks is a good thought, where would you like it? If ironworks increases hammers, and then hammers double for units with HE, then is ironworks and HE in same city one of the few examples of the bonuses compounding instead of just being additive?
If so, maybe in Turfan. If not, then after we take out the Persian city, WestIsle may be our max hammer city.
dV
Ronnie1
Deity
The roster order is
Lehm - in the hole
Conquistador 63 - just played
hellwitch - skipped by request
da_Vinci - waiting
Thrallia - skipped
g_storrow - skipped
Scout 214 - UP NOW
Ronnie1 - on deck
I would say Turfan for IW and big troop boost! We may want to change some of the cottages there to farms and workshops.
Lehm - in the hole
Conquistador 63 - just played
hellwitch - skipped by request
da_Vinci - waiting
Thrallia - skipped
g_storrow - skipped
Scout 214 - UP NOW
Ronnie1 - on deck
I would say Turfan for IW and big troop boost! We may want to change some of the cottages there to farms and workshops.
Scout214
Pawn in the game of Civ
Played 15 turns. Good stopping point to consider what to do next.
Took the last two Asokan cities on the mainland, then made peace with them for Replaceable Parts. Would not give us Astronomy.
Went to war with Izzy. Took Santiago and held it. Maybe should have razed it but Cyrus, the Japanese and Chinese are all following behind us to plunk down cities. Santiago normalizes in 2 turns. We fended off several attacks from her in which she used cavalry, riflemen and cats. Izzy started another city in the SE corner of the mainland but we took it. Took and razed a third Izzian city. Was prepping to go after Barcelona, held by 3 riflemen. Made peace instead because our troops were scattered and in need of healing, and we were running out of money rapidly; and war weariness was catching up to us. Was pillaging her countryside to get some money but figured it was a good stopping place to consider what to do next.
Izzy has Rifling and Military Tradition but would not trade them for peace. Took Constitution and 680 gold to shore up treasury.
Built courthouses in mainland cities to help reduce cost. Started Theatres in a couple to counteract culture imbalances, secure more land eventually toward domination.
Cyrus cancelled Open Borders as soon as we declared on Izzy. Now has 2 cities on the island with Sparta and is blocking our path west to Izzy. Lots of Grenadiers on West Isle that can't go past him.
Japanese put city down on the west side of the island with Mecca. Gathering some troops there in Mecca for the future.
Did nothing with the GE. We're 15 turns (at 50% research) from Steel. Had to reduce to 0% for a while because of the cash crunch. If we can keep research at 40-50%, Military Tradition (17 turns @ 50%) and Rifling (10 turns @50%) are within easy reach. We're going to need them, as Cyrus, Izzy and the Japanese all have both already.
We need to decide whether to go to war with Cyrus or resume the war with Izzy in 10 turns. Or fight Cyrus to take his city in West Isle while Izzy can't attack, then make peace and go after Izzy again. If we fight Cy, we should plan to take his cities on the isle with Sparta as well. Izzy has good troops but not many of them. I'm sure we can knock Izzy out of the game but it will take some time. It'd be nice to get all those grenadiers on West Isle into the fight when the time comes, too.
Took the last two Asokan cities on the mainland, then made peace with them for Replaceable Parts. Would not give us Astronomy.
Went to war with Izzy. Took Santiago and held it. Maybe should have razed it but Cyrus, the Japanese and Chinese are all following behind us to plunk down cities. Santiago normalizes in 2 turns. We fended off several attacks from her in which she used cavalry, riflemen and cats. Izzy started another city in the SE corner of the mainland but we took it. Took and razed a third Izzian city. Was prepping to go after Barcelona, held by 3 riflemen. Made peace instead because our troops were scattered and in need of healing, and we were running out of money rapidly; and war weariness was catching up to us. Was pillaging her countryside to get some money but figured it was a good stopping place to consider what to do next.
Izzy has Rifling and Military Tradition but would not trade them for peace. Took Constitution and 680 gold to shore up treasury.
Built courthouses in mainland cities to help reduce cost. Started Theatres in a couple to counteract culture imbalances, secure more land eventually toward domination.
Cyrus cancelled Open Borders as soon as we declared on Izzy. Now has 2 cities on the island with Sparta and is blocking our path west to Izzy. Lots of Grenadiers on West Isle that can't go past him.
Japanese put city down on the west side of the island with Mecca. Gathering some troops there in Mecca for the future.
Did nothing with the GE. We're 15 turns (at 50% research) from Steel. Had to reduce to 0% for a while because of the cash crunch. If we can keep research at 40-50%, Military Tradition (17 turns @ 50%) and Rifling (10 turns @50%) are within easy reach. We're going to need them, as Cyrus, Izzy and the Japanese all have both already.
We need to decide whether to go to war with Cyrus or resume the war with Izzy in 10 turns. Or fight Cyrus to take his city in West Isle while Izzy can't attack, then make peace and go after Izzy again. If we fight Cy, we should plan to take his cities on the isle with Sparta as well. Izzy has good troops but not many of them. I'm sure we can knock Izzy out of the game but it will take some time. It'd be nice to get all those grenadiers on West Isle into the fight when the time comes, too.
aye....that'd be the day my internet crapped out
I got it back about a week ago, but have been too busy with school and work to do much other than check my email.
I haven't even played Civ since my last turnset in this game
I'm fine with being skipped this inning, as I really have no idea what's going on in the game right now. I actually expected the game to already be over and to come back apologizing I'd missed out on the rest of the game, not just one inning.
Anyway, I'm apologizing anyway, and hope to be able to take part next inning(and to catch back up to dV in the XOTMs!)
Ronnie1
Deity
The roster order is
Lehm - on deck
Conquistador 63 - in the hole
hellwitch - skipped by request
da_Vinci - waiting
Thrallia - skipped
g_storrow - skipped
Scout 214 - just played, nice solid and quick set S214
Ronnie1 - UP NOW, I'll post a plan soon!
Lehm - on deck
Conquistador 63 - in the hole
hellwitch - skipped by request
da_Vinci - waiting
Thrallia - skipped
g_storrow - skipped
Scout 214 - just played, nice solid and quick set S214
Ronnie1 - UP NOW, I'll post a plan soon!
da_Vinci
Gypsy Prince
Maybe now that we are at peace, Cyrus will give OB again? Not at game now, but his power was pretty huge last time I looked.
Unhappy might be emancipation rather than WW ... or motherland yearning? If Izzy is the only one running emancipation, maybe taking her out adds happiness?
How close are we to Astro? Are galleons an alternative to war with Cyrus? If we can take his city fast, then maybe we can reinforce mainland fast enough to hold. Do we have bombard cats in WestIlse to take down his defense in 1 turn?
If we do declare war on Cyrus, we might want to wait until our cities have some cultural defense ... if a few are near a culture pop, maybe wait a few turns (or run artists).
Rifles may be needed to handle Cyrus' Cavalry ... maybe we wait the 10 turns to get that before we declare, then upgrade some maces to rifles?
Might be that a 10 turn prep for the Cyrus war is in order ... and if he will give OB before those 10 turns are up, so much the better!
dV
Unhappy might be emancipation rather than WW ... or motherland yearning? If Izzy is the only one running emancipation, maybe taking her out adds happiness?
How close are we to Astro? Are galleons an alternative to war with Cyrus? If we can take his city fast, then maybe we can reinforce mainland fast enough to hold. Do we have bombard cats in WestIlse to take down his defense in 1 turn?
If we do declare war on Cyrus, we might want to wait until our cities have some cultural defense ... if a few are near a culture pop, maybe wait a few turns (or run artists).
Rifles may be needed to handle Cyrus' Cavalry ... maybe we wait the 10 turns to get that before we declare, then upgrade some maces to rifles?
Might be that a 10 turn prep for the Cyrus war is in order ... and if he will give OB before those 10 turns are up, so much the better!
dV
da_Vinci
Gypsy Prince
Glad to hear you are OK
... the long silences from ususally active players can raise concern.Catch back up ... Hmm ... have you gained any ground since you issued your challenge?
Yes, I know you have not been able to submit some recent games ... we will have to build a score out of games submitted in common, to see how we really compare.
dV
Ronnie1
Deity
Cyrus will not give OB right now, "maybe in a few years", he says.
We are not that close to Astronomy or anything else. We cannot maintain our science rate at nearly a high enough level to get anything soon.
I don't see any happiness issues in our core cities, so it must be isolated to new cities, I'll whip it away!
Cyrus has doubled our power graph, but I'm not sure we can worry about that.
Only 1 cat in West Isle.
I'm struggling to see alternatives to the standard Genjs "kill 'em all" plan, and not sure that will work so well either.
We are not that close to Astronomy or anything else. We cannot maintain our science rate at nearly a high enough level to get anything soon.
I don't see any happiness issues in our core cities, so it must be isolated to new cities, I'll whip it away!
Cyrus has doubled our power graph, but I'm not sure we can worry about that.
Only 1 cat in West Isle.
I'm struggling to see alternatives to the standard Genjs "kill 'em all" plan, and not sure that will work so well either.
da_Vinci
Gypsy Prince
I might take 10 turns of preparation ... maybe we get OB after that, and can move troops to go for Izzy again. Might focus on CH and FP construction to rehab economy while we wait, make enough cats to stock WestIsle to take Cyrustown if necessary.
With one week to go, maybe need 30 turns per set ... so prep for 10 and fight for 20?
How close are we to a new GPers out of Athens? Any cities where Library or Univ makes sense? Or maybe whip market or bank (if we have the tech) in our big commerce cities if we are only running 50% science at best?
How goes our conversion to Judaism?
Man does this feel like SGOTM 04 or what?
dV
Scout214
Pawn in the game of Civ
I whipped a few older cities while in process to alleviate unhappiness. Newer ones still something of a problem despite some whippings there, too.
Started some cats in the vicinity of West Isle once it became clear that we'd need to bash Cyrus there at some point. Should be in the works. Sent at least one to East Isle (Sparta) in case we get in a shootin' war with Cyrus, so we can take his cities there. Got most cats to mainland before Cyrus closed the door, leaving us with many grenadiers and few cats on West Isle. Moved some grenadiers toward East isle and South Isle (Japanese now there) since our cities in those places are too lightly held to withstand war in those theatres.
So long as there aren't many riflemen and cavalry in a local area, our lesser units were doing a pretty good job at taking them out. Lost a handful of our guys but generally was successful against Izzy's better units.
Yes, we just don't have the income to sustain 40-50% research to get the military techs quickly. Maybe do more pillaging as a deliberate tactic to pad our cash. I started to do that in Izzydom before peace. Rearranged some of our cities to max income. We'll have to operate at some degree of deficit in any event to get the military techs we need.
We have a massive number of cats and a variety of other units on the border with Izzy. Enough to go back to war with her when able and take at least two or three more cities from her, if not entirely eliminate her. Was organizing to take Barcelona when peace broke out. Took it primarily to grab her cash.
War with Cyrus may get us their cities on West Isle and East Isle (where Sparta is) but our newfound cities on the eastern side of the main continent will be vulnerable to counterattack. If we don't mind losing some of them, at least temporarily, we can consolidate our lines of communication and get the grenadier host over there as well.
Started some cats in the vicinity of West Isle once it became clear that we'd need to bash Cyrus there at some point. Should be in the works. Sent at least one to East Isle (Sparta) in case we get in a shootin' war with Cyrus, so we can take his cities there. Got most cats to mainland before Cyrus closed the door, leaving us with many grenadiers and few cats on West Isle. Moved some grenadiers toward East isle and South Isle (Japanese now there) since our cities in those places are too lightly held to withstand war in those theatres.
So long as there aren't many riflemen and cavalry in a local area, our lesser units were doing a pretty good job at taking them out. Lost a handful of our guys but generally was successful against Izzy's better units.
Yes, we just don't have the income to sustain 40-50% research to get the military techs quickly. Maybe do more pillaging as a deliberate tactic to pad our cash. I started to do that in Izzydom before peace. Rearranged some of our cities to max income. We'll have to operate at some degree of deficit in any event to get the military techs we need.
We have a massive number of cats and a variety of other units on the border with Izzy. Enough to go back to war with her when able and take at least two or three more cities from her, if not entirely eliminate her. Was organizing to take Barcelona when peace broke out. Took it primarily to grab her cash.
War with Cyrus may get us their cities on West Isle and East Isle (where Sparta is) but our newfound cities on the eastern side of the main continent will be vulnerable to counterattack. If we don't mind losing some of them, at least temporarily, we can consolidate our lines of communication and get the grenadier host over there as well.
Ronnie1
Deity
It seems like we are not ready to take on Cyrus, I like the peace for 10 and then back at Izzy plan best right now. Anyone have any different ideas?
da_Vinci
Gypsy Prince
If we convert to Buddhism, I'll bet Cyrus gives us OB immediately!
We were getting about 10 gold in trade routes in a few cities from him when we had the OB, so let's get it right away!
Also, whip that Bank in Karak! Maybe a bank in Mecca too. We are at -8 with 0 sci, so need some econ rehab. maybe some CH if maint is 8 or greater in a city?
Athens ... forget the hammer tiles, run the scientists! We will get a new GPers in 10 turns or so.
Bombay has Hanging Gardens, but do we need an aqueduct there to "activate" it? Might move to a 2F tile, pop in 15 allows whip of theatre (faster than 24 by hammers), then maybe a Bud monastery to put Bud in our cities?
Aryan ... build a Bud Mon next ... maybe whip theatre and overflow into it?
Cordoba is almost free of revolt risk ... 0.19% now.
If we go Buddhist, we get OB with Cyrus, trade route cash with him, whip Karak bank and we can probably run 30% sci at less than -100 until we start taking Izzy cities again. Move the GE to India while we have OB with Cyrus and use it for FP for economy? Or IW in Turfan. If we can take and hold Izzy cities, get the CH and FP, then we can get tech moving to be able to go get Cyrus later.
dV
da_Vinci
Gypsy Prince
We have workers idle in Spain that could be improving tiles in Bombay.
The barbs are also researching steel, so we might as well stay with that.
When we attack Izzy next, let's not pillage her towns, but use them as we keep the cities, which we can do with FP there ... I might be inclined to use GE for FP if it can't be whipped somewhere.
After whacking Izzy, if we get rifles, then maybe Toku is next target? We can hit him from two sides.
dV
The barbs are also researching steel, so we might as well stay with that.
When we attack Izzy next, let's not pillage her towns, but use them as we keep the cities, which we can do with FP there ... I might be inclined to use GE for FP if it can't be whipped somewhere.
After whacking Izzy, if we get rifles, then maybe Toku is next target? We can hit him from two sides.
dV
Scout214
Pawn in the game of Civ
I think R1 is right. Wait the 10 years and hit Izzy again. Make another peace after taking a few cities if she'll give us a military tech, Rifling or Military Tradition. Then hit her again to finish her.
Key to what next is whether we can resume OB w/Cy. If switching to Buddhism accomplishes that, do it. Otherwise, to get troops we build into place for war with Japan will run into Cy's roadblocks.
If no OB, we may find it necessary to go after Cy then. Hopefully, we will have riflemen and cavalry by that point but will they have even better units?
Key to what next is whether we can resume OB w/Cy. If switching to Buddhism accomplishes that, do it. Otherwise, to get troops we build into place for war with Japan will run into Cy's roadblocks.
If no OB, we may find it necessary to go after Cy then. Hopefully, we will have riflemen and cavalry by that point but will they have even better units?
da_Vinci
Gypsy Prince
Yes, wait 10 years and go back at Izzy ... esp since I am confident we get OB with Cyrus again by then if we go Budd.
We are -5 with Cyrus, -3 is heathen religion. Going Budd wipes that out, and should buy us +2 brothers of the faith, so back to 0, cautious, and OB. Which will really help our trade route income in cites with harbors. It ought to work just like going back to Judaism got us OB with him before.
When Izzy gets weak enough, Toku is likely to jump into the war ...
If we get the Spanish colonies on their feet, we should be able to gain in tech some ... and we did pretty well in SGOTM 04 being a bit behind in military tech ... but we do need to get to artillery (even skipping cavalry) eventually I think.
Is it time to think about running representation instead of police state? Maybe with caste system and multiple scientists in several cities for a military tech surge? Or even pacifism for fast Gpers, after we take out Izzy?
A brief moratorium on troop production after the Izzy wars to boost econ and science might be just what we need. Thoughts for the post-Izzy world.
dV
We are -5 with Cyrus, -3 is heathen religion. Going Budd wipes that out, and should buy us +2 brothers of the faith, so back to 0, cautious, and OB. Which will really help our trade route income in cites with harbors. It ought to work just like going back to Judaism got us OB with him before.
When Izzy gets weak enough, Toku is likely to jump into the war ...
If we get the Spanish colonies on their feet, we should be able to gain in tech some ... and we did pretty well in SGOTM 04 being a bit behind in military tech ... but we do need to get to artillery (even skipping cavalry) eventually I think.
Is it time to think about running representation instead of police state? Maybe with caste system and multiple scientists in several cities for a military tech surge? Or even pacifism for fast Gpers, after we take out Izzy?
A brief moratorium on troop production after the Izzy wars to boost econ and science might be just what we need. Thoughts for the post-Izzy world.
dV
Ronnie1
Deity
I am not a fan of Cavalry, especially if they come after rifles. Grenadiers/Cannons are more effective IMO. I'm getting ready to play, I had not noticed the religion switch by Cy, that explains his attitude for sure.
da_Vinci
Gypsy Prince
We might want to take out Izzy in one round, as re-declaring on her gets us diplo neg with Cy for declaring on his friend (if they are still friends). You might keep an eye on how much hit we take with the first declaration, to see if a second one is ok after a tech trade. I think we need to keep Cy happy for a while longer ...
I imagine Cyrus getting to infantry soon, maybe Toku too?
With one week to go, I'd say play as many turns as you can while the plan does not require discussion ... 30, or even 40 if you have the time.
dV
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