SGOTM 05 - Gypsy Kings

da_Vinci · Oct 28, 2007

The upload log:

Spoiler :

da_Vinci · Oct 28, 2007

Upload log part 2:

Spoiler :

Ronnie1 · Oct 28, 2007

Nice going dV!! Maybe Diplomatic would have been the fastest option.

The roster order is

Lehm - Can you play Tuesday?
Conquistador 63 - Play Monday
hellwitch - Can you play Tuesday?
da_Vinci - just played
Thrallia - Play Sunday, 20 turns at least, unless something very unfortunate happens and we start getting crushed.
g_storrow - Can you play Tuesday?
Scout 214 - waiting
Ronnie1 - waiting

We need to have someone play every day to finish on time, lets try to keep as many people active as possible.

da_Vinci · Oct 28, 2007

We need to regain some control of our shipping lanes, which means we need to tech up to destroyers (or at least ironclads?). Since we are fighting a defensive war with Toku now, little WW for us, so can we afford to go to representation? Extra science from all of those free specialists ... maybe in retrospect we should have been running that earlier?

If Toku is willing to continue to impale his troops on us in futile attacks, let him. But hard to see how we deliver a killer blow if the homeland troops can't get to the front.

Cyrus has 30% of land ... so if he gets much bigger, can't get dom without attacking him, which will be dicey. In SGOTM 04 we got some wars among the AI, but not here after they got all the MMS points against us ... which is what is making this so hard (among other things).

dV

hellwitch · Oct 29, 2007

Hi to all. I'm sorry that i can't play but i am going mad from work. The end of my project became more that a month long and i still can't play at lease 1 week more which seems that i can't catch the finish date here.

For the game till here i'm very supprised on the tech path you have chosen. In my exp the best aproach is to Beline Asembly line right after chemistry. Then i go for railroads>oil>tanks. IMO thats how you can get the "industrial" bonus from the industrial age. Astronomy is the only exception IMO as it is a must in such water maps.This aproach works very fine for me on immortal. I can get the best production rate even if i am backward in most of my games.

Thats just my opinion and its no matter noew in our game. I've look at the save. Toku already want peace for a town so it is very possible to be able to make peace with him right atfer we kill his small stack which he will land near Madrid. About the victory i can't see a win from here if there is no Cyrus-Toku war. The bad thing is that we can't bribe and can only pray for it.

da_Vinci · Oct 29, 2007

hellwitch said:
For the game till here i'm very supprised on the tech path you have chosen. In my exp the best aproach is to Beline Asembly line right after chemistry. Then i go for railroads>oil>tanks. IMO thats how you can get the "industrial" bonus from the industrial age. Astronomy is the only exception IMO as it is a must in such water maps.This aproach works very fine for me on immortal. I can get the best production rate even if i am backward in most of my games.

Does that work even when the AI is ahead of you in power and tech? My sense is that the only way to survive if the AI is ahead in quality and numbers of troops is to have adequate siege weapons for the collateral damage. But you have a point that Al gets you to factories and power plants. So do you end up with tanks and cats? That must be an amusing battlefield but maybe it works?

In this game the alliance with the barbs is increasing research costs I think, as all alliances do I am told. I think the alliance is hurting more than helping at this stage.

I think we have had different ideas and shifted beween them throughout the game, among just build troops, turn off research, vs. build infrastructure and emphasize tech. I don't think we ever really fully commited to either path, so have not either conquered fast or teched fast.

In retrospect, moving west, occupying all of westisle, and getting on the mainland in time to defend the barb cities there looks like the better plan for the game. Hindsight is always an asset, and is 20/20. We underestimated the harrassment that Qin's navy would be in getting troops east, not expecting that war to last so long. Not that I am complaining, as Pyramids looked juicy to me at that time too.

I guess the question now is whether make peace and focus on tech (representation?) or to continue war with Toku, which if it is a managable defensive war, may weaken him while we pick up some techs?

dV

Lehm · Oct 29, 2007

I could play Tuesday at 7:00 pm european time. Sorry for not having more time right now...

da_Vinci · Oct 29, 2007

I wonder if Thrallia's internet is giving him trouble again ... as it seemed he would be able to play yesterday, but apparently not.

I think that C63 should play if he can today, or let us know if he can't.

In any case, the person who starts to play should post that at the time they begin, and no one should start to play without checking to see if someone has already jumped in. Seems the best way to manage the rush.

I think we might stay in the defensive war with Toku if we can hold, as we get little WW from that, until we need to ship troops across the sea at which point we might make peace. If WW is low enough, maybe go to representation for the science, run those merchants in the bank cities (4.5 gold and 3 science is a pretty good yield), scientists in the academies.

We might need to use our time zones to get two rounds in per day ... If C63 plays today, he is maybe 1-2 hours ahead of US eastern and 2-3 hours ahead of US central, which is where Thrallia is IIRC.

The Lehm could play Tuesday night in Europe, maybe gs can play Tuesday after that, or at least we could get another US round in Tuesday night (maybe three sets?).

So my proposal is:

C63 Monday
Thrallia Monday
Lehm Tuesday night 7 PM europe (about 1 PM US east coast)
gs Tuesday after Lehm if possible, or see below
dV, R1 or S214 Tuesday night in the US
gs Wednesday if he can
dV, R1 or S214 Wednesday night in the US

Six rounds in the next 3 days, at 30 turns a round covers the remaining 180 turns.

Not etched in stone, and subject to change as needed, but it is a framework.

dV

Ronnie1 · Oct 29, 2007

The Roster order is dV's proposal.

So my proposal is:

Lehm - Play Tuesday night Euro time
Conquistador 63 - Play Monday, UP NOW
hellwitch - out of action
da_Vinci - just played
Thrallia - Waiting to hear when you can play??????Monday Night US time???
g_storrow - Waiting to hear when you can play??????Monday Night US time???
Scout 214 - waiting, be ready to pick up the save after C63 if no one else can.
Ronnie1 - waiting

As dV said, the only way we get in trouble is if 2 people play the same save. Whoever starts playing, post a "I'm playing now message"!!

Scout214 · Oct 29, 2007

Standing by...

da_Vinci · Oct 29, 2007

g_storrow is in Britain, so given time zones unlikely he can play after C63 on Monday unless C63 plays early in the day (like already). More likely he can play after Lehm Tuesday, or as the first play on Wednesday.

Thrallia, S214 or R1, being later than US eastern time, are best positioned to play tonight after C63 by time zone. I'll touch base with Scout214, (edit: I guess I don't have to ... S214, are you available tonight if Thrallia is not?)

So R1, are you able to jump in tonight after C63 if no one else is? I could as a last resort I suppose ...

Or if for some reason C63 can't play, maybe two out of Thrallia, S214, and R1 tonight?

dV

Conquistador 63 · Oct 29, 2007

I can play no earlier than some 4h from now. If someone wants to play now, be my guest. I can also play tomorrow instead if that is better. Just let me know. I'll check thread and post a message before picking it up.

Ronnie1 · Oct 29, 2007

After looking at the save a little more, I have a few thoughts. While we are behind in military techs, we should build few troops. I think we try and fight the defensive fight with Toku until he quits sending free units our direction. During that time we can build and whip some infrastructure so we can get Artillery and then Infantry sooner. CH's in cities with the highest maintenance, Bank and Market in Westbridge to take advantage of the shrine, Observatory in Athens and Mecca. Turfan keeps pumping out cannons!

@Scout214, Could you play before C63, about 4PM Central time?

da_Vinci · Oct 29, 2007

Ronnie1 said:
@Scout214, Could you play before C63, about 4PM Central time?

Talked to S214 ... he can't play tonight until after 9 PM Mountain time (his time zone). C63 could play about 1 hour from now if I am counting and guessing right, so he might as well. If he is done in 5 hours, then that would just about be 9 PM in Mountain time, for S214.

Ronnie1 said:
After looking at the save a little more, I have a few thoughts. While we are behind in military techs, we should build few troops. I think we try and fight the defensive fight with Toku until he quits sending free units our direction. During that time we can build and whip some infrastructure so we can get Artillery and then Infantry sooner. CH's in cities with the highest maintenance, Bank and Market in Westbridge to take advantage of the shrine, Observatory in Athens and Mecca. Turfan keeps pumping out cannons!

I agree, plus we can't move troops across the waters while Toku's destroyers are on patrol. Might make some Rifles or cannons on the main continent in cities that already have courthouses.

What do folks think about representation? We already have free specialists from merc, so seems good to me. we are near a new GP each in Karak and Athens.

Hopefully we will be making artillery by the time C63 is done.

dV

Ronnie1 · Oct 29, 2007

OK!!

C63 plays as soon as he can.
S214 follows tonight.

Maybe gs can play overnight (US time) and Lehm can follow that as he said he'd be available 7pm Euro tomorrow.

If gs doesn't pick it up after S214, dV or R1 may have to cram in a set tomorrow before Lehm, and the other can follow after Lehm. I assume 7pm Euro must be 2-3pm eastern US.

Maybe if dV has trouble sleeping, he can fill some time.

Conquistador 63 · Oct 29, 2007

I'm leaving work towards home now, hopefully I'll be there in about an hour. In the meantime would help if I could get advice on tech path, I couldn't find it in the latest posts.

da_Vinci · Oct 29, 2007

Ronnie1 said:
OK!!

C63 plays as soon as he can.
S214 follows tonight.

Maybe gs can play overnight (US time) and Lehm can follow that as he said he'd be available 7pm Euro tomorrow.

If gs doesn't pick it up after S214, dV or R1 may have to cram in a set tomorrow before Lehm, and the other can follow after Lehm. I assume 7pm Euro must be 2-3pm eastern US.

Maybe if dV has trouble sleeping, he can fill some time.

No chance of me getting one in between S214 and Lehm, even if I wake up I would not have that many hours to commit before trying to get back to sleep!

I don't think that gs will be able to play before Lehm and after S214, but maybe he can play after Lehm. Or I could play after Lehm and in either case maybe R1 plays a third set on Tuesday.

Maybe this ends up as a time victory, if we can't bite enough off of Cyrus in the end (or maybe even that is optimistic).

dV

da_Vinci · Oct 29, 2007

Conquistador 63 said:
I'm leaving work towards home now, hopefully I'll be there in about an hour. In the meantime would help if I could get advice on tech path, I couldn't find it in the latest posts.

Certainly we finish artillery, then we need infantry but also destroyers ... but the land troops are a priority ... or if we tech to flight, then the navy becomes moot ... railroads would be nice for fast movement.

You may have to use your judgement, as I don't think we have a consensus after artillery.

I think we have as much land as Cyrus ... if he starts heading for space, maybe we can tech up, hit Toku again, catch Cyrus in power and finally go at him.

dV

Conquistador 63 · Oct 29, 2007

I got the save and I'll load it up now. Wish me luck!

Conquistador 63 · Oct 29, 2007

I couldn't play more than 10 turns. We revolted to representation (Cyrus fav civic), killed a few japanese troops, razed a marginal city and got peace for some money. We have artillery now. I set research to Rocketry, maybe space race is an option? But that can be changed, no beakers invested. Maybe a rush to UN could be considered, if Toku has highest pop? If it is Cyrus forget it.

Some scouting revealed that the japanese city SW of Seville is garrisoned by a handful of artillery. The coastal cities near Athens appears to be lightly defended.

Autolog

Spoiler :

SGOTM 05 - Gypsy Kings

Gypsy Prince

Gypsy Prince

Deity

Gypsy Prince

Prince

Gypsy Prince

Gypsy Jester

Gypsy Prince

Deity

Pawn in the game of Civ

Gypsy Prince

Deity

Deity

Gypsy Prince

Deity

Deity

Gypsy Prince

Gypsy Prince

Deity

Deity

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