SGOTM 06 - Misfits

Mastiff_of_Ar · Dec 24, 2007

namliaM said:
Hmz, updating on the forum would be much better with a save.
What if we turn around the Axeman in the screeny?
Losing the copper would be killing at this stage where we are ramping up our Military. The first Barbs do not enter culture boundries for the first turns, but I dont know if we passed that limit yet or not?

Sadly, I had him ready for his next move, and he took off towards MM. He wouldn't have made it anyway, unless the barb wandered around some. So, pop the axeman for the certainty of keeping the mine? He's the only way to save it for sure... or, stick the warrior out there?

namliaM said:
Can you (if still visible) add what units there are in Athens? I think the warrior should atleast move 2 south. But dont get cornerd in Alex' land. He is going to be our first target, the less time you spend inside his culture the better, I think.
The gold of Athens is very welcome indeed, it will make keeping Athens just that little more affordable.

Two archers w/ CG and a workboat. So Alex has barracks. I could climb the gold hill, and see quite a bit...

I uploaded the file even though I'm only 2 turns in. Check it out, then I'll get back to work on it tonight!

namliaM · Dec 25, 2007

MoA said:
Sadly, I had him ready for his next move, and he took off towards MM.

Do not use "goto" commands, this would have prevented this problem. I can understand you use them in SP, but in SGOTM the sets are so short. The time invested in manually moving the units is worth it.

In the save he hasnt moved yet?? But if you saw him move we should (again) move him. I think we are OK for now... we havent seen any barb warriors/archers yet, have we? They should stay out of our borders for now, hopefully atleast untill we get the next axe out. You can secure the copper with the warrior if you like

The barb only needs to move away once maybe twice to be totaly safe, so the next Axe will complete (After the settler) fast enough to take out the warrior before he can pillage.
I think it is worth the risk, for added security dont send that Axe to MM. But send him to intercept the Warrior as well. That should reduce the turns needed by 1 or 2... But again I think we are OK, for now.

MoA said:
So Alex has barracks.

Yep he has, you can see the building in the city too

I am worried tho... either he build his barracks real early OR where did the unpromoted Archer go? There is USUALY this early atleast one unpromoted archer lurking about someplace. Or did he send that to Sparta?

CG on a Hill

UGLY! The only one not on a hill is Hannibal.

MoA said:
I could climb the gold hill, and see quite a bit...

I wouldnt do that for 2 reasons.
1) The 2 tiles south of that hill look to be forrest tiles => You wouldnt see a thing
2) Our warrior is Bushman2 !
Inside a forrest he is +100% defense, I would stick to the forrest and only leave the forrest if there is something to pillage, which is NOT directly bordered to Athens.

namliaM · Dec 25, 2007

I just want to remind you of this:

My earlier post said:
For Alex for going way out and planting a city right in a spot where we wanted it. Lets let it grow to size 2 so we can capture it, Assuming Alex is working the Grass Forrest like a nice AI, that would be rougly 15 turns from now => Somewhere close after turn 85 or so we should visit Sparta, which means we have time for a quick visit to MM.
The first Axe will take 11 turns at minimum to get into MM Culture (straight east) and go SW to Sparta. So we have something like 5-6 turns where he can do some damage. Look out for the skirmishers tho, a combat promoted Skirmisher can do some damage to a unpromoted Axe!
Sparta (Bahowe? or Hahoel?) still needs some more food before I get all happy about this city. The banana +3, FP +1, CC +2 for a total of 6 food, while I can see 9 tiles that need food... So without another food resource it needs 3 farms to work the max, which we will probably never reach tho.

In 15 turns we should have 2 more axemen ready from London to go and claim Sparta, so even if we find an Archer... It shouldnt be a problem with 4 Axemen. Finish the settler and build 2 Axemen should take about 12 turns. Needing 6 turns to reach Sparta = 18 turn total. Leaving still those same 5-6 turns to bother MM a little.

Please aim to have Claimed Sparta at the END of your set roughly turn 90, or be ready for me to take on Sparta. Getting that city NOW is a real boost

Mastiff_of_Ar · Dec 25, 2007

Okay... I think I can get this going again. If the barb makes another move toward the copper, I'll send the warrior out.

EDIT: Just a note. Athens is settled on stone, and he has bronze two tiles south... which I'm about to pillage.

namliaM · Dec 25, 2007

Mastiff_of_Ar said:
EDIT: Just a note. Athens is settled on stone, and he has bronze two tiles south... which I'm about to pillage.

Pillage copper = good

Alex has copper = bad

I cannot wait for your full report

Mastiff_of_Ar · Dec 25, 2007

Okay, it's 1600. (Turn 80)

I put up a save, but made a small change. I've played 10, and I'm not sure how many I get.

Horico is founded, two warriors are dug in... I had the monument finishing in 9 turns with the city stagnent, but just changed it to be finished in 17 turns, the same time the pop will grow to 2. That also adds a commerce, so we're running even at 90% research.

Writing is in 1 turn.

Two of Alex's archers (One with C1 and one with C2) are approching from the south. Right now the best combat odds a 30% or so. The dye square is a nice kill zone if we can draw them in. If you're wondering why the other axe is out of the city, there is a barb warrior wandering around on the peninsula west of London. I was headed out to get him when the archers showed up.

An axeman and warrior are NE of Sparta, but the three axes to take the ciity (one will be done in 2 turns), need to deal with the archers, then head for Sparta, but it has yet to pop to 2. After the next axe... worker.

Woody is headed back after pillaging gold and sheep. There is now a settler in Athens... I doubt we can have axes ready before he makes an archer to escort him, though. I tried to trick Alex... I went SW to a wooded spot out of territory, hoping he'd send the worker to mine or pasture, then steal him. Sadly, Athens expanded and ruined my ruse! C'est la vie... c'est la guerre!

So. Play more or hand it off? Either way, critical comments are very appreciated.

MF

ChrisFromLux · Dec 25, 2007

First of all, I think you can play another 5 turns, up to turn 85. The next player could to that as well, and from turn 100 on, we could go in sets of 10?!?

But: what did you make the worker do? He was mining the hill SE of London when my turn ended. Now, there's no mine :confused:

And if you moved to the cows (1), road the cows(4), move to hill (5), start road (6?) ... there are 4 worker-turns missing ???

For Horico, I haven't done any detailed calculations, but I think 17/17 should be OK!

Concerning Alex's Archers: I think we have to move 1 Axe on the bronze-hill, the other one should stay where he is, and the new Axe should move to the forest E of London, to protect the banana-farm and be able to attack on the dye ... but of course, this depends on their movements ...

P.S.: Yes, I am a native Luxembourger, 1 of ~275 000 :goodjob:

namliaM · Dec 25, 2007

First the easy part.
With AGs short set and Chris' 19, I think you can do 20 too...

Comments on the save:
- Why didnt you finish the riverside hill's mine, we were mining in the previous save?
- Why build the road near London first?
The worker could have pastured the Horses by now for a 1/4 tile instead of working the Plains hill for 3 hammers.

Anyway what is done is done... We need that monument (IMHO) ASAP, dont much care about growing at the moment. Keep working the hill I think, get the Monument out of the way.
Let the worker finish the road on that hill, then get those horses up and running at Horico. Start a barracks? Or maybe some Chariots? After the monument.

Wow, combat archers... he either run into barbs (did he kill that barb warrior too) or build the barracks real fast!
Lets look at the situation.

Not having finished the mine now turns into a blessing, cause he cannot pillage what is not finished.
32 hammers into the Axe, 44, 56 (4 overflow)
48/12 = 4. So in 2+4 = 6 turns we have 2 more Axemen, making 4 at Athens. They should easily deal with the Archers.
Dont face the Achers on hills or in forrests, do so ON OPEN GROUND! This makes odds in our favour as 3+20%+10% = 3.9 vs 5 for our axe. With any luck we beat them both and get CR promotions

Park an Axe on the Copper, Park one on the Banana. Leaves one in London at the time the Archers get to the cows. Maybe he smash his archers into our Axemen but that is unlikely

We can risk the Banana, but leave the Cows open so maybe he heads there?
With no Axe on the Banana and 1 Axe IN London and 1 on the (roaded) Dye. We should be able to tackle the problem.

OR We can get Technical, if I understand the AI properly:
Park Axemen on both the banana and Copper.
The Archers should march to the Cows.
When the Archers are on the Forrest East of London (we have 1 Axe at that point in London) Move the Axe on the Copper to the Dye. This should make the Archers turn towards that again.
Now Reprotect the Copper and the Archers go north again. If need be repeat the process to allow for Axe#5 to finish in London.
Now that we have 2 Axemen in London, allow the Archers to move to the Pasture and KILL them where they stand (hopefully)

Build que for London IMHO:
Axe => Axe => Worker => Axe => Axe => Barracks?

Existing worker:
Road that hill
Run to Horico
Pasture/road those horses
Road back to London one or two tiles to meet with Worker #2
Chop a (plains) forrest to kill time and speed up the Barracks/Chariot(s)
Pasture Cows
Farm Rice

Second worker
FINISH That mine SE of London!
Road that hill (for faster movement south)
Road to Horico
Road to Gold/Mine the Forrest hill Worker #1 is currently on.

Mastiff_of_Ar · Dec 25, 2007

I've been to Amsterdam, when I was very young, but not to your country. But, we're planning a long Euro vacation in the next couple years! We'll try not to stand out as Americans.

I must have missed something. I thought we needed the gold road first, then, as I started that, I read we're needing the Horico connection! I'll head him back and finish the mine, if that's what we need!

namliaM · Dec 25, 2007

ChrisFromLux said:
First of all, I think you can play another 5 turns, up to turn 85. The next player could to that as well, and from turn 100 on, we could go in sets of 10?!?

But: what did you make the worker do? He was mining the hill SE of London when my turn ended. Now, there's no mine
And if you moved to the cows (1), road the cows(4), move to hill (5), start road (6?) ... there are 4 worker-turns missing ???

For Horico, I haven't done any detailed calculations, but I think 17/17 should be OK!

I think we want to finish the monument ASAP to get the Border pop ASAP to get the food ASAP. Delaying the Monument 8 turns = 8 Turns later to get the cows/rice online.

Chris said:
Concerning Alex's Archers: I think we have to move 1 Axe on the bronze-hill, the other one should stay where he is, and the new Axe should move to the forest E of London, to protect the banana-farm and be able to attack on the dye ... but of course, this depends on their movements ...

I like this plan... but...
Get 2 Axemen on that forrest east of London. They can strike at both the Dye and Banana.
Get 1 Axeman on the Copper.

If they go for the Dye or Banana KILL THEM (Hopefully)

If they go for the hill SE of London re-implement my plan by:
Moving one axe into London (just 1 warrior vs 2 Archers?? Not funny!)
Moving 1 Axe onto the banana to protect it.

The archers should move North to the forrest (or kill themselves attacking our axe (but I dont expect that).
Move the Axeman from the copper to the Dye
Archers move south
Axeman to copper
Archers north again to Forrest, Axeman done in London (now 2)
Archers to Cows => KILL THEM (hopefully)

Quick Edit: Get that bushman warrior away from Athens and North along the coast!

namliaM · Dec 25, 2007

Mastiff_of_Ar said:
I've been to Amsterdam, when I was very young, but not to your country. But, we're planning a long Euro vacation in the next couple years! We'll try not to stand out as Americans.

I must have missed something. I thought we needed the gold road first, then, as I started that, I read we're needing the Horico connection! I'll head him back and finish the mine, if that's what we need!

You must swing by if you are ever in Amsterdam... I dont think with the impending Archers we can mine that hill... See my worker actions in my first post. I thnk that is most prudent.

ChrisFromLux · Dec 25, 2007

namliaM said:
Get 2 Axemen on that forrest east of London. They can strike at both the Dye and Banana.
Get 1 Axeman on the Copper.

If they go for the Dye or Banana KILL THEM (Hopefully)

If they go for the hill SE of London re-implement my plan by:
Moving one axe into London (just 1 warrior vs 2 Archers?? Not funny!)
Moving 1 Axe onto the banana to protect it.

The archers should move North to the forrest (or kill themselves attacking our axe (but I dont expect that).
Move the Axeman from the copper to the Dye
Archers move south
Axeman to copper
Archers north again to Forrest, Axeman done in London (now 2)
Archers to Cows => KILL THEM (hopefully)

Quick Edit: Get that bushman warrior away from Athens and North along the coast!

But there's a problem in your idea ... the barb-warrior on western dead-end, who will destroy our gold-mine ...

namliaM · Dec 25, 2007

ChrisFromLux said:
But there's a problem in your idea ... the barb-warrior on western dead-end, who will destroy our gold-mine ...

I think/hope we are still in the "barbs do not enter culture period" we just need 1 or 2 turns for him to "be nice".
I think the 2 Archers are a bigger problem anyway even if the Barb gets our mine.

This turn (0):
Archers North or NW (probably)

turn 1:
South axe NE to the forrest
West Axe to the Copper

Achers on Gold hill

Turn 2:
Copper axe fortify, Other axe To the banana
Axe finish in London (fortify to defend against Archers)

Archers to Hill SE of London

Turn 3
Nothing

Archers to Forrest

Turn 4
Copper Axe to Dye

Archers south again to hill

Turn 5
Axe back to copper

Archers to forrest

Turn 6
Axe finish in london

Archers to Cows

Turn 7 KILL ARCHERS

Something like that

ChrisFromLux · Dec 25, 2007

Sounds OK for me, let's hope it works ... :mischief:

Mastiff_of_Ar · Dec 25, 2007

I lost two archers... my plan worked well. Got them to the dye, 86% and 69%. Two dead axes.

Nothing special on the last couple turns. Sorry I lost the axes. Maybe a barracks soon?

Spoiler :

namliaM · Dec 25, 2007

....
Turn 83, 1510 BC: Churchill's Axeman is hit for 16 (68/100HP)
Turn 83, 1510 BC: Churchill's Axeman is hit for 16 (52/100HP)
Turn 83, 1510 BC: Churchill's Axeman is hit for 16 (36/100HP)
Turn 83, 1510 BC: Churchill's Axeman is hit for 16 (20/100HP)
...
Turn 83, 1510 BC: Churchill's Axeman is hit for 18 (46/100HP)
Turn 83, 1510 BC: Churchill's Axeman is hit for 18 (28/100HP)
Turn 83, 1510 BC: Churchill's Axeman is hit for 18 (10/100HP)
Turn 83, 1510 BC: Churchill's Axeman is hit for 18 (0/100HP)
...

Wow in 2 seperate battles, getting hit 4 times in a row... on crutial points too... This bites, not much you can do about it tho MoA.

Get your full report up please and I can go hunt for sparta tomorrow.
4 Axemen should be able to take Sparta with 1 (unpromoted) Archer and 2 Warriors.

We still have 2 Axemen. Suggested builds for London:
Axe => Axe (go get sparta) => Worker (finish London) => Axe => Axe (added protection in case new archers show up) => Barracks

We need a kill-zone further away from London at some point

Mastiff_of_Ar · Dec 25, 2007

I tried to keep a running report... Is there something else I need to add?

Last look at Athens.

namliaM · Dec 25, 2007

OK so for me 15 turns?

London
Axe => Axe (making 3 + 1 allready at Sparta) => Worker => Axe => Barracks

Rohico
Monument => Barracks
or:
Monument => Chariots (how many)

Workers:
Rohico, Pasture the Horses, chop some plains forrest and get food (cows/rice) up and running ASAP

London
Finish that mine
Finish the farm?
Road to Rohico/gold?

ChrisFromLux · Dec 25, 2007

namliaM said:
London
Axe => Axe (making 3 + 1 allready at Sparta) => Worker => Axe => Barracks

Sounds good for taking Sparta, but it leaves London and Horico 'undefended', should there be some barb/AIs showing up from the stone-area ... MM, for example

1 Axe or 2 promoted Archers/Chariots would be deadly

namliaM said:
Rohico
Monument => Barracks
or:
Monument => Chariots (how many)

I would at least build 2 chariots first, to have something in hand against enemy-Axes ...

namliaM said:
Workers:
Rohico, Pasture the Horses, chop some plains forrest and get food (cows/rice) up and running ASAP

London
Finish that mine
Finish the farm?
Road to Rohico/gold?

First of all, our 2nd town is called Horico

I suppose we are working the mined hill in London (or the grasshill-forest, as long as the mine isn't ready), as well as another 2 :food:

-tile (grass-forest?) on size 6; that will give +2 :food:

/turn, making London grow from 6-->7 in 23 turns + 3 turns left to grow from 5-->6 = 26 turns!

This 2nd worker (who will be out in 11 turns: 1 for Axe3, 4 for Axe4 and 6 for himself), has to move to the hill and finish the mine (1 + 3/4 = 15/16 turns), then he should go and road the western gold (1+3 for connecting road, 1+3 for gold-road), finishing after 23/24 turns, and London can grow to size 7.

namliaM said:
OK so for me 15 turns?

As cnwjr and marowaker still haven't shown up

, it's your turn again ... Take revenge for those dead Axes :mad:

ChrisFromLux · Dec 25, 2007

This looks like we're the only ones who have lost some units ... :mad:

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