SGOTM 06 - The Real Ms. Beyond

Good work, Lee. I see that there are quite a few grenadiers on the AI island now...excellent. The rate at which I was losing them was causing me to lose hope over there.

On the tech side, only Saladin lacks Astronomy, but all the AIs still lack Chemistry. I agree with Steel next for us.

I'm going to try to run a few more turns myself today. I foresee a dry spell in my playing availability in the coming days, so I want to get in turns when I can.
 
I'm going to try to run a few more turns myself today. I foresee a dry spell in my playing availability in the coming days, so I want to get in turns when I can.

I hope we settle the nationalism / mercantilism debate before you play. With being relatively stable, this is IMHO the time to suffer the anarchy.

Keep shuttling of that island. Even swords are good as they can replace our elephants as MPs. Elephants are still decent against Saladin's Camel Archers...

We should also work on claiming the last of our lands. My only help was a Christian missionary to fur city to claim a few more tiles. A settler is being built to build another city. We should settler another city up by barb city.
 
I plan to go ahead and do the nationalism/mercantilism civic change immediately. I think that's best.

Also, I don't think we have the Globe Theater yet. I'm thinking Nidaros because it's close to the action.

As for settling lands, we will want to do that for Domination, but I think the priority is probably to impair the AI's ability to research as much as we can. If (when?) they get Chemistry, their Frigates could get irritating to us.
 
Also, I don't think we have the Globe Theater yet. I'm thinking Nidaros because it's close to the action.

No, Globe Theater hasn't been built. Since I don't have the game open, I can't look at Nidaros is in order to comment.

The FP still needs to be built somewhere.


I know I've been depressed about this game since the Athens disaster, but that alone doesn't explain the disconnect factor for this game. It seems like team planning and discussion is gone.
 
I played a bit while my internet connection was down for a few hours. Report coming in a few minutes....

@Lee: I think the reason there hasn't been too much discussion of late is because we're just playing for honor...finishing something we've started. We've got no chance at any recognition.

I started the Globe in Nidaros (it'll take forever). I think the Forbidden Palace plan is to put it somewhere on the AI island.
 
I played to an exciting point. I started an assault on Saladin's lands while we were in revolt to merc/nationalism (we can only draft muskets...yuck!). I razed a few cities we once owned so I could press forward the attack.

I decided to go into Cyrus' land since he has Astronomy and Saladin doesn't (yet).

Cyrus fielded a nice attack:



I held out against a 15-rifle, 4-treb, 2-other attack from Cyrus at Birka! Certainly the crowning achievement of the turnset. He launched that assault just as I discovered where Persepolis is. I counterattacked with a few grenadier reinforcements who had been left behind to guard the wounded from the incursion into Saladin's lands. Cyrus' entire stack was wiped out, including even the treb who got lucky and withdrew from its assault.

Right now, we are under assault from Saladin and his rifles and cavalry from the north.:



I think we should play defensively there. He'll probably attack the pigs, but we can rebuild them. If we try to attack his stack with elephants, his rifles will defend, if we attack with grenadiers, his cavalry will defend. Better to defend in the city and give ourselves those advantages. If he goes for Nidaros though, I'd attack.

Saladin is also launching piecemeal attacks at Birka, and I recommend mostly defense there. Though I would pick off units from inside Birka if he leaves them out in the open (like he's done!) Watch out for that approaching cav though.

We are also in position to take Persepolis! (Note the screenshot is one turn old, so these units are ready to attack now, less a couple that Arabian cavalry took out.)



I don't know if we can hold it or not, so we should consider razing it. The only sadness to razing Persepolis is that it holds 5 or 6 nice world wonders (including Great Lighthouse and Great Wall).

But we may need to just get over that and burn it to the ground. I think our existing forces can take it...probably even on the saveturn I've uploaded. There is a question of tactics: ie whether the trebs should just take down the defenses or try to soften up the defenders, but since there are only 3 rifles and 2 longbows defending, I think we've got to go for it before Saladin's cavalry pick off any more of that stack or Cyrus moves more troops in to defend.

I'm not sure what my availability is for playing over the next week. No more long turnsets, but maybe the occasional hour here and there.

Assuming we get some cash from Persepolis, we should be about 6 turns from Steel.

The next player should have a good time with tactics....

The save.
 
The earliest I can touch this is Monday, so hopefully some other team members can show back up.

I don't understand the attack direction. We could have broken out from the south and keep some cities as the front wouldn't have gotten much longer.
 
I may get to it before Monday, we'll see.

As for the route of the army, my thinking was: since Cyrus is ahead technologically, we should take him on first. A suitable invasion force was in place for a northward incursion, but we'd have to go through some cities that Cyrus took back from us. (At one point, Cyrus had a 11-unit army that I was hoping to catch in a city, but he moved it out before I got there.)

Since I didn't want to lose any troops to garrison duty, I decided to just raze the cities. I'm sure Cyrus or Saladin will move settlers in to re-found the cities, but at least there won't be latent culture to deal with. (Plus, maybe that will keep them busy building something other than troops.)

Saladin showed cavalry just a few turns before I stopped, so the total extent of his armies remains to be seen. Against his rifles+cavalry, we don't have a clear attacking unit to use.

I think the easiest and fastest path to Domination from here is to primarily raze cities. This denies the AI the ability to re-capture them from us and allows us to stop their tech development. Going back to capture newly formed cities or even putting down settlers of our own will be easy compared to trying to take and hold these big cities against huge existing culture.
 
Is anyone interested in running a few turns before Lee can get back to it on Monday?
Even Monday is out. I now have LK142 and LK143 (both war). Tuesday is my earliest possible.

Either way I would like to see some of the other players show back.
It won't finish with just Compromise and LKendter playing.
 
Lee, if you get a chance to play tomorrow, I just want to summarize my intended strategy: raze as much of the AI infrastructure--ie cities, even including Persepolis--as possible to slow them down.

We can easily pump out settlers or take later, weaker cities to get to the Domination limits, but since we're behind technologically, crushing their military and economic production centers--with ours safe (for now) on another continent--seems to me to be the best way.

I'll be able to grab the game again on Thu (and maybe also Friday). I'll try to go as far as I can then.
 
I have it for a few more turns.
 
Just wanted to let you know that I'm paying paying attention, looking forward to seeing where we get.
 
1727 AD
We've inched up to 40.49% for domination, but we still have long time to go.

I don't understand why I have a ton of unmoved units. This has been a pet peeve of mine for a long time. I find it very confusing trying to evaluate the map when I get the game from an autosave.

An attempt for Taj at Sakae only cost 23 turns, so I start it up after the current Grenadier.

It is painful, but Persepolis is razed to the ground.


1732 AD
I build another filler city on our landmass.


1740 AD
We drew an engineer that rushes Taj in Athens. We need to speed up troop production, and research and this helps with both. I don't see the Pentagon coming into play.


1742 AD
(IT) Calvary is the fastest path to a stronger unit. I start with back filling horseback riding, and music to complete military tradition.


1750 AD
I razed Gordium losing NO units. :)


1756 AD
(IT) I start us on the path to rifles. This is the next tech to improve the military.


1762 AD
Arbela is razed.


1764 AD
Tarsus is razed.
(IT) Cyrus becomes a vassal of Saladin. It won't affect us, but it does tell me that Persia took some serious hurt.


1766 AD
We have a general that is heading toward our HE city. This instructor equals triple promoted units. :)



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New Updates
With the discussion level close to zero, I made some arbitrary choices such as Taj to keep the game moving. At this point, we are simply trying to finish the game before the deadline. I would prefer not to have another incomplete.


I don't plan to play another round until some of the other players show back up.
I won't finish this if Comprise is the only other player.


http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm6/The_Real_Ms_Beyond_SG006_AD1768_01.CivWarlordsSave
 
Golly LK, I appreciate you playing the turns and for the excellent play, but please don't be so grumpy. The discussion at this point (where we've all admitted the competitive aspect of the game is lost) is to raze AI cities and plant lots of our own in one big push when we can make the domination threshold. Other than that, military techs seem like a given. I don't know how much more discussion you want.

Now you're quite correct that it would be nice to have some more players. I can only speak for myself, but I apologize for committing to a game before verifying that my install will actually run it. I will endeavor to not make that mistake again. Still, I think all of us (you and I included) would feel better about what has been an educational and (I dare say) well-played (other than one early misstep) game if there wasn't so much public bickering in each post.

After all, RB is an inclusive community. We wouldn't want new players to avoid the links in all of our sigs because they get the impression we aren't having fun anymore, would we?
 
Golly LK, I appreciate you playing the turns and for the excellent play, but please don't be so grumpy.
:confused:
I reread that post, and outside of the below I can't figure out what that comment is about.

With the discussion level close to zero, I made some arbitrary choices such as Taj to keep the game moving. At this point, we are simply trying to finish the game before the deadline. I would prefer not to have another incomplete.

Looking at the game in the 1700s that doesn't even have the FP built tells me team communication feel apart somewhere. We took way to long to build the Heroic Epic, as IMHO that should have been an ASAP build with an all war game. The Globe Theater just finished on my turn. We should have had this whipping center built ages ago. This is why I made the above complaint. Sorry, but some frustration at the above is justified to me.
 
I know I've been depressed about this game since the Athens disaster, but that alone doesn't explain the disconnect factor for this game. It seems like team planning and discussion is gone.

I don't understand the attack direction. We could have broken out from the south and keep some cities as the front wouldn't have gotten much longer.

Either way I would like to see some of the other players show back.
It won't finish with just Compromise and LKendter playing.

I don't understand why I have a ton of unmoved units. This has been a pet peeve of mine for a long time. I find it very confusing trying to evaluate the map when I get the game from an autosave.

I don't plan to play another round until some of the other players show back up.
I won't finish this if Comprise is the only other player.

That's from just my page 27 of posts, but it's representative of the past several pages. I challenge you to find a comparable collection of quotes from any other player on any other page.

Please don't get me wrong - I'm glad you're on the team, you play has been good, and I'm GRATEFUL you've put in so many turnsets. But I fail to see why all the negativity has to creep into your posts. There is a way to point out questions or concerns with other's play that is encouraging...but I don't feel this is it. Furthermore, it's rather obvious at this point that interest has waned. With that in the open, I don't think it's in the RB spirit to call out other players about their frequency of play time and time again. If the game is no longer fun for you, I'd rather you not play at all than feel playing has become a chore.
 
If the game is no longer fun for you, I'd rather you not play at all than feel playing has become a chore.
This game has been a chore since the Athens failure.
I am resignning from this game, and I have played my last turn set.

I've been at 60% resign, and 40% play since the Athens failure. A sense of obligation is the only reason I am still hear. No matter how hard I try my frustration will keep slipping into my posts.

I've already made the decision that I will only lurk SGOTM#7. I need a break from this format.
 
The LK series is going on hiatus. I am not sure how long.
I am not having fun at this time. More then once recently had my hands shaking from stress overload, and no game is worth this.

LK141 has been very frustrating with all the delays.
LK142 is an embarrassment with the variant design failure.
LK143 is a major source of frustration, as I totally disagree with the hyper-expansion plan of the other players. I am likely wrong, but that is irrelevant. It is ruining the fun for me.

I will finish the current games, and then the hold starts.

Hiatus update:

I still don't fully understand why I am having such problems being a good SG host recently. However, I have realized where at least part of the problem lies. I have a demonically inspired work project right now that is taking a major toll on me. Therefore, the hiatus will last until at least August 2008 when that project may end.
This sounds like classic SG / Civ4 burn out to me. Sorry that the game has become a chore and that I haven't helped out more. I will try and squeeze in a set in the next 7 days. Don't hold play up for me - I'll grab the save, post a got it and get a report up - but all at very short notice.

@LK - good luck with the work project.
 
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