SGOTM 06 - Xteam

So Gator, your tests showed that:

During the in-between-turn, the gold from the chop overflow gets added on after the resolution of the slider and treasury-applied-to-research phase.

If we chop on the same turn that our treasury would go below 0 at 100% research, the game will adjust the slider thinking there is a deficit (despite getting a huge ammount of gold applied the next turn) and we suffer one turn at less than 100% research.

Right?

Correct, research slider is adjusted based on the treasury prior to hammer conversion to gold. I updated Test 3 to reflect a zero hammer carryover to next build.

BTW, when we are in OR those same 5 forest will yield 718 instead of the 663 for a max gold gain of 786 vrs the 720 gold from Test 1. So it appears that we do not get the full 25% bonus on the chops in OR. I was expecting the forest yield to be 825 not 718.
 
Everything was going pretty well until the chop that was meant for Carthage and the Missionary went instead to Ivoryville. :rolleyes: :


If you hover with the mouse over the square it'll tell you which city it's going to.
 
During my lunchbreak I reviewed the save: my comments were very similar to Fred’s.

In addition:

Timbuktu can also work the best food/commerce tiles instead of scientist until 4 scientists are hired in Carthage and the two cities grow their Great Scientists in parallel.

The next tiles to be improved at Ivoryville after the 2 workers finish the elephant camp should be cows then iron.

Athens can wait until Confu is spread there before hiring scientists since it will catch up eventually. Growth should be prioritised in the meantime

Move first settler towards horse city (may want to provide an additional fog buster to head to horse city right now.)

Could move a warrior from Timbuktu to fogbust a hill next to the copper on the northern peninsula.

One possible problem:

Athens will probably become the Taoist holy city since it is our largest city without religion. This will mean we don’t have a sure bet of spreading Confu there…
 
Athens current happy cap = 7
+1 Ivory = 8
+1 religion = 9
-1 Calendar (lose the happy monument bonus??) = 8
+1 Spices = 9
+1 Dye (by Timbuktu) = 10
 
Jimmy Thunder said:
Timbuktu can also work the best food/commerce tiles instead of scientist until 4 scientists are hired in Carthage and the two cities grow their Great Scientists in parallel.

I would prefer full speed ahead for now. We can always slow down GP points somewhere when the next GP draws closer

Jimmy Thunder said:
Move first settler towards horse city (may want to provide an additional fog buster to head to horse city right now.)

I would prefer gold City first because it's faster to improve and it can contribute to our tech speed with the gold mine.

Jimmy Thunder said:
One possible problem:

Athens will probably become the Taoist holy city since it is our largest city without religion. This will mean we don’t have a sure bet of spreading Confu there…

d'oh! Any solution? Maybe start building another missionary in Carthage to have a backup that can be chopped immediately if the first one fails?

Jimmy Thunder said:
Athens current happy cap = 7
+1 Ivory = 8
+1 religion = 9
-1 Calendar (lose the happy monument bonus??) = 8
+1 Spices = 9
+1 Dye (by Timbuktu) = 10

Dyes come online immediately since London was settled on dyes.

Edit: X-posted.
 
There are 2 more happy resources available in the south tundra that are not near cities (silver and fur). We may want to target those spots soon, just to improve our other cities.

In Athens, as Fred and JT have mentioned, we are working a regular plain hill and an unmined copper hill for a total of 1f/4h/0c instead of moving them to coastal tiles should we go ahead and make them scientist? Although if we are revolting in 2 turns then it is better to work the coast and hire the scientist at double the points.
 
Athens will probably become the Taoist holy city since it is our largest city without religion. This will mean we don’t have a sure bet of spreading Confu there…

d'oh! Any solution? Maybe start building another missionary in Carthage to have a backup that can be chopped immediately if the first one fails?

Carthage is about to grow to size 6, do we want to poprush something in Athens for 1 pop to take it back to size 6 prior to bulbing Tao? Athens can recover the growth quickly and this makes it a toss-up between Athens and Carthage for the Holy City.
 
Carthage is about to grow to size 6, do we want to poprush something in Athens for 1 pop to take it back to size 6 prior to bulbing Tao? Athens can recover the growth quickly and this makes it a toss-up between Athens and Carthage for the Holy City.

No, our Astronomy strategy relies on caste system and high popn in our 3 gp farms. Plus, Carthage can't be Holy city because it has Confu already (I think the general rule is the largest sized city without a religion).

I think we have to risk founding Taosim as we are now, there is still a good chance of our missionary being successful.

Our contingency can be either :
1) delaying the revolt to Pacifism until we have chpped another missionary in Carthage (using forests outside the fat cross or even using one of the chops going into the walls for a big reduction in gold) - this gives us good backup but slows us down regardless of whether our first missionary is succesful or not.
2) chopping monestary and then missionary in Carthage once we see our missionary has failed (using forests outside the fat cross) this will set us back considerably but only if the missionary fails.

I choose option 2.

I wonder what the chance of success for spreading religion is?
 
Tough question. My initial thought was that it would be better to revolt after the missionary is built so that he can move during anarchy thus saving a turn.

Move the worker from the wine tile onto the NW forest and build road in 2 turns. When the missionary is built revolt to Pacifism. The anarchy will give us a free turn for moving the missionary and for chopping. Move the nearest worker from Ivoryville to the forest that is still missing 5 turns of chopping.

Yes, finish the missionary and revolt to Pacifism ASAP. Maximize food and population in Athens until it is getting the benefit of Pacifism.

Ivoryville is really underdeveloped now. It needs to get to at least Pop9 to fulfill its potential as a troop factory. MM for max food now and use our whole work force from Carthage to improve cows, iron, ivory, and hills after Carthage is chopped.

Our military is starting to cost us some maintenance, about 20 GPT, iirc.

The Unit Supply cost is something we can actually do something about. When Sparta and Carthage's borders expand shortly (Sparta should hire an artist for a few turns), the fogbusters around that area can return to our borders.

Another thing: I think next tech should be Calendar - Athens will grow to size 10 in no time and we badly need to get those spices hooked...

Sounds fine.
 
My apologies as I messed up the chop in Carthage. I had it all set and went back and checked it and made a mistake, chopping a forest. So six got chopped instead of 8. The display said two turns so I chopped it to make it one, but the forest came down... So I had to cut the rest that were available or we would have had Walls and no Gold.

<< The Save >>

Turn 143 &#8211; 355 BC
Hire a fourth Scientist in Timbuktu, Great Scientist due in 11 turns.
Hire a Scientist and an Artist in Athens.
Move the Sword near Athens towards Ivoryville.
Move the Confucian Missionary out of Timbuktu and south towards Ivoryville, headed for Carthage.
Check cities, looks like we&#8217;re ready to roll.

IBT
Barbs move towards Tim.
The Barb Archer near Ivoryville destroys a road tile.
We discover Hunting and start research on Monotheism.
The English Empire now holds half a million souls.
Athens expands due to culture.

Turn 144 &#8211; 340 BC
Fire the Artist and Scientist in Athens.
Place Walls first in the queue in Athens.
Warrior heals in Tim but I don&#8217;t have the Gold to upgrade him this turn. :blush:
Chop all seven forests in Athens.
340BC_Athens_after_chop.jpg


Move both Workers to Gold hill near Ironsite.
Move both Workers near Tim into the city to protect them from Barbs.
Change Carthage build from Work Boat to Walls.
Move Carthage Workers out to begin pre-chops.
Move Missionary south, Axes northwest.

IBT
Barb Archer bear Ivoryville attacks our Sword and dies.
Barb Warrior near Tim destroys road, Archer joins him on the same tile.

Turn 145 &#8211; 325 BC
We receive nearly 900 Gold from the chop at Athens.
Upgrade shock promoted Axeman in Tim to Axe for 110 Gold.
At Athens, one Worker moves to Pasture the Sheep tile while the others begin movement towards Ivoryville.
Missionary reaches Ivoryville area, now with two Axes nearby, phew&#8230;

IBT
Barb Archer attacks city and dies.
Another Barb Archer shows up to Timbuktu&#8217;s east, near the Banana tile.
London Sword => Sword.
Athens Granary => Barracks.

Turn 146 &#8211; 310 BC
Use Gator&#8217;s trick to check for cultural tiles to our east, nothing near the scouting Work Boat.
Axe from Tim attacks a Barb Warrior and kills him.
Tim Workers begin farming the Rice tile.
Our northern Warrior (4-tiles NW of Tim) finds a Barb Warrior, we are on a forested hill.
Sword born in London moves NE on Barb watch duty.
Sword moves to view Sparta. They&#8217;ve been busy as the Horse tile is Pastured and connected. :eek:
310BC_Sparta.jpg


The Barb city of Bantu
310BC_Bantu.jpg


IBT
A Barb Archer appears near our northernmost Warrior near the Gold City site. The Barb Warrior heads for Tim. The Barb Archer east of Tim heads for Tim. Tim is a Barb attractor!!
We discover Monotheism start on Meditation.
Ironsite Sword => Galley.

Turn 147 &#8211; 295 BC
I move the Sword overlooking Sparta towards the Horse tile.
Athens Workers moved to chop at Ivoryville. One Worker repairs road pillaged by Barb Archer.
Missionary moves near Carthage.
CR3 Swords head for Sparta.
Revolt to Organized Religion

IBT
Barbs converge on Tim.

Turn 148 &#8211; 280 BC
Begin chopping near Ironsite.
Carthage gets out of resistance. Missionary arrives and Carthage is now Confucian.
Move Sword onto Horse tile to pillage next turn.
Change Ivoryville build to Worker.
Set Carthage citizen to work emphasizing food for growth.
Change build in Carthage from Walls to Missionary (for Athens).

IBT
Another Barb Archer shows coming from east of Tim.
Barb Archer near city moves towards Banana tile on the west side.
Barb Warrior moves towards Tim from the northwest.
They&#8217;re everywhere!! :eek:
We discover Meditation and start on Construction.

Turn 149 &#8211; 265 BC
Pillage Horse Pasture near Sparta for 5 Gold.
Chop two forests in Ivoryville into a Worker.

IBT
Barbs surround Tim&#8230;
Ivoryville Worker => Granary

Turn 150 &#8211; 250 BC
Axeman brought up from Carthage area attacks Barb Archer near Tim and kills him without loss.
Axeman from inside Tim attacks a Barb Warrior and kills him, now 4.5/5.
Athens grows to pop 5 and will grow again in two turns and be unhappy, that is about the time we should take Sparta, so we&#8217;ll let it grow. We work all the food tiles plus the Gold hill.
London grows so we work the mined grass hill.
Ironsite grows and we work both Gold hills.
Start moving Workers to Carthage.

IBT
Herodotus writes that we are the wealthiest civ.
235BC_Wealth.jpg


Two Barb Archers move on Tim.

Turn 151 &#8211; 235 BC
Chop completes near Ironsite, Galley due in 4-turns.
Send one worker to mine the Grass hill. The other to build an Ivory Camp.
Move Workers around.
Axe attacks and kills a Barb Archer near Tim, now 2.8/5.

IBT
Barb Archer moves onto Tim&#8217;s Rice tile.
Another Barb shows SW of Tim.
London Sword => Settler. (Our unit costs are mounting.)
Athens grows to size 6 and becomes unhappy.

Turn 152 &#8211; 220 BC
Worker leaves Athens area headed for Ivoryville.
Time to attack Sparta.
The city contains three Archers, two Workers and a Work Boat, too bad we can&#8217;t capture the Work Boat?
CR3 Sword attacks a City Garrison 1 Archer at 88.4% and kills him.
CR3 Sword attacks an Archer at 98.1% and kills him.
CR2 Sword attacks an Archer at 85.7% and kills him, we take the city plus 128 Gold.
We keep the city and its two Workers! Set production to Work Boat. The city will have 4-turns of Resistance.

At Timbuktu, an Axe attacks a Barb Archer on our Rice tile at 97.3% and kills him.

IBT
A Barb Archer moves onto the farmed Banana tile west of Tim.

Turn 153 &#8211; 205 BC
Our Axes in Tim have to heal, so I can&#8217;t attack the Barb Archer on the Bananas.
What?? The chop intended for Carthage went to Ivoryville instead. :mad:

IBT
A Barb Sword appears east of Tim.
Barb Archer pillages irrigated Banana tile near Tim.
Ivoryville Granary => Worker.

Turn 154 &#8211; 190 BC
Axeman attacks Barb Archer south of Athens and kills him.
Axeman at Tim kills a Barb Archer on the Banana tile.


IBT
Barb Sword moves towards Tim.
Barb Warrior appears south of Athens.
Ironsite Galley => Barracks.
Gallileo Galilei, our first Great Scientist is born in Tim.

Turn 155 &#8211; 175 BC
Go through Worker actions.
Save game and go ask team for assistance.
Reload game.
Change citizens in Athens to sea tiles.
Based upon JT&#8217;s research, decide to use the Great Scientist to bulb Philosophy.
Interesting that our Holy City for Taoism is York? Fine by me!
Save Taoist Missionary to send to Gold City to aid in cultural expansion?

IBT
Barb Warrior attacks Axe near Athens and dies.
Barb Sword moves SW, like it is heading for the Barb City?
Construction comes in and we start research on Calendar.
Ivoryville Worker => Barracks.
Athens Barracks => Catapult.
Carthage&#8217;s borders expand.

Turn 156 &#8211; 160 BC
Sparta comes out of resistance. Move a Worker to Horses and begin Pasture.
Hire an Artist in Sparta.
Reallocate citizens in Carthage for food and to ensure Missionary next turn.

IBT
Barb Sword moves towards Ivoryville.
Barb Sword continues south away from Timbuktu.
York Settler => Catapult.
Carthage Confucian Missionary => Walls.

Turn 157 &#8211; 145 BC
Move Galley and determine there is no culture bridge at Cow Island.
Move Workers away form Ivory Camp building near Ivoryville to avoid a Barb Sword. Move our Sword to intercept.
Begin moving a couple of Swords from Sparta that are healed towards Ivoryville.
Make a stack of a Sword, Settler and Taoist Missionary and begin moving towards Gold City.
Move Confucian Missionary towards Athens.
Revolt to Pacifism.

IBT
Our first Barb Axe appears out of the northern forest near the northern Horse tile.
Barb Sword heads for irrigated tile near Timbuktu.
Barb Sword moves next to Ivoryville.

Turn 158 &#8211; 130 BC
Hire four Scientists in Carthage.
Perform Worker actions around Carthage.
Move Missionary towards Athens.
Sword in Ivoryville upgrades to Combat1 and Shock and attacks Barb Sword at 88.7% and kills him, he has 0.2 of 6 remaining. :eek:
There are two Workers under the Sword near Ivoryville. The Ivory to the west has one turn for the two workers to complete the camp, I think. Try one first and see if the other is needed. That will solve Athens unhappiness.
I chopped a forest by accident at Carthage and I must chop as many as I can now. I chopped six of them. I knew I shouldn&#8217;t play when it got late&#8230; :mad:
I apologize, dumb!!
Decide to save and hand off here.

After Action Report.
Major objectives are complete. Carthage has been chopped...

There is no culture bridge possible from Cow Island. I left the galley there for you to check on this. The settler from York is headed for Gold city with a Sword and a Taoist Missionary in tow. Beware the Axe to its north. We are two turns from completing the Pasture near Sparta so we can build a Chariot in York or London to deal with the Barb Axe. The Sword could upgrade to Combat1 and Shock if needed.

There are four Scientists in both Timbuktu and Carthage as we are in Pacifism.

The two forests west and NW of Sparta have been pre-chopped. Please check the display to see how many more turns are needed.

There is 150 Gold in the treasury and we are consuming 89 GPT. :eek:
 
There is 150 Gold in the treasury and we are consuming 89 GPT.

But Carthage's gold chop will come in at the beginning of the next turn for over 800 gold (too late for math :) ).

Overall looks good. :goodjob: I'll look at the save in the morning.

What is the overall timeframe on getting to galleon? Do we have time to start adding more cities so we can get rid of the barbs? Once we start fighting overseas we don't want to be worried about barbs at home.
 
Well done leif :goodjob:.

The unplanned chop in Carthage is probably a minor thing - we could decide to chop the 3 forests in Sparta into gold and use the extra forests in Carthage to chop the work boat.
 
Thanks, but I am still a bit upset with myself. :cringe:

Roster:
Gator - UP
ShannonCT - On Deck
Frederiksberg
rrau
Cactus Pete
Jimmy Thunder
Leif
- just played!

Barb Swords and Axes are starting to appear, so getting the Horses hooked up will be important.

The Great People should start appearing in 12 turns, iirc. Researching to Machinery is the bottleneck I think. After Calender we have to get Metal Casting, Compass and Machinery. Chopping for Gold is the only way to get us there quickly.

Building Gold City and Horse City will help keep Barb surprises down, I think. The area to the east of Tim we'll have to post Warriors or something to keep it tame.
 
leif erikson said:
The Great People should start appearing in 12 turns, iirc. Researching to Machinery is the bottleneck I think. After Calender we have to get Metal Casting, Compass and Machinery. Chopping for Gold is the only way to get us there quickly.

Building Gold City and Horse City will help keep Barb surprises down, I think. The area to the east of Tim we'll have to post Warriors or something to keep it tame.

Chopping gold will not in itself increase tech rate. Only by working more tiles with a high yield of gold can we improve tech pace. In my test game I was doing 150 bpt in the end assisted by two gold mines in Gold City, dyes in Timbuktu and some riverbank cottages in Horse city. If we have available workers to build plantations we should consider capturing Bantu when we know Calendar. It can work some pretty good tiles like riverbank dyes.

I agree that one or two fogbusters in the vast jungle east of Timbuktu should reduce the barb problems a lot.
 
The unplanned chop in Carthage is probably a minor thing - we could decide to chop the 3 forests in Sparta into gold and use the extra forests in Carthage to chop the work boat.
I think we should review our need for scouting with the eastern Work Boat. It is near Carthage and hasn't found a thing. We could send it to Athens immediately to support the Great Scientist effort there?

For me, it seems pretty clear that we will need Astronomy.

I started building Cats in some of our cities. Is there an maximum number of units we should build, considering unit maintenance in Pacifism?
 
leif erikson said:
I think we should review our need for scouting with the eastern Work Boat. It is near Carthage and hasn't found a thing. We could send it to Athens immediately to support the Great Scientist effort there?

We should at least consider this. We could use the forests in Carthage to chop a granary.

leif erikson said:
I started building Cats in some of our cities. Is there an maximum number of units we should build, considering unit maintenance in Pacifism?

I think we should just build away. The more the merrier :ar15: :D . I do, think that we should think about what units we will need for our first wave of attack. Cat's of course - preferably promoted against barbs. Medic charriots. A couple of Elephants. Galleys for upgrade to galleons. And we shouldn't forget to build a settler that will get us the gold from chopping we need to do the upgrading.
 
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