SGOTM 06 - Xteam

[Frederiksberg]

Well done in the GOTM and with the HOF . 3 fast finishers from XTeam - that's impressive. Now, if we could only get that silver laurel....

Please clarify . . . We've just whipped a cat. Don't understand talk of an archer.

There was a suggestion of whipping an archer [in Parsagadea] but I think the chariot will be more helpful. I'm not sure if we can actually whip 2 chariots in succession - maybe SCT can answer that?

I don't think that works, Fred. You can't get to Damascus and then far enough south to be waiting a turn for CB in 2 turns. If you don't rendezvous in two turns with the second turn and one more to sail back to Damascus, you don't save a turn (but that is probably not critical).

I think it's possible unless there is a mistake in this time line:

T212: Load MP's FL with sword and WE and move to Damascus.
T213: Unload units at Damascus and move back south to plains forest.
T214: Move Cactus Breeze to same tile as MP's FL and transfer units. Sail MP's FL to Damascus and unload units.

Actually I think I did make a mistake when I looked at the save yesterday. My plan was designed for winning in T215 after only 4 turns (not counting the present turn) and not in T216. You have to be really careful when you do this counting. Maybe we should go for winning in 4 turns?

I think we're going to want to send that cat to Susa, but we can wait until early next turn to see what happens with PERS and the units just out of Gordium before deciding.

It is part of my "mistake" that I calculated that this cat didn't have time to reach Susa because I was aiming for an earlier deadline (T215) than I thought.

I'm wondering if we could make a late decision about some of the unit deployments. If we move sword and cat out of Mecca next turn (T212) they will could be on the grassland hill SW of Kufah in T213 and ready to attack in T214. In addition to these two units we would have the cat, sword and xbow that are already there and we would have two extra turns of bombing meaning that the cultural defense would be down to 8%. The sword and xbow could also be moved to the grassland hill SW for maximum flexibility if it turns out that one unit can be spared as backup in Susa.

This may be overkill -- especially question if we can afford the second cat there, since it could get to both Kufah and Susa in time to be effective.

We could move the 2nd cat built in Mecca to Susa then. It would arrive in time to attack in turn 216 and if we plan to win in T216 the Parsagadea cat I assigned to Gordium could be used against Susa instead. I agree that we may have to few units near Susa considering that there will be little time for bombing.

Maybe SCT can provide some combat odds showing where the critical battles are and if we should reassign units or rather go for a 5 turn victory compared to 4 turns.

Does anyone know what has prompted the Persians to send out the archer from Susa and the axe+cat from Gordium? Is it the siege at Persepolis or the undefended Parsagadea that is attracting these units. It would sure be great if the archer doesn't return to Susa. Will keeping Persepolis attract counterattacking forces?

Do we know how to proceed with the attack on Persepolis and how are the odds? We probably need to factor in that our WE north of Persepolis will be hit by the barb axe IBT.

 

[leif erikson]

Now, if we could only get that silver laurel....

Looks like Murky's latest save has them pop-rushing hard like we just did, only they are over 20 turns ahead of us.

 

[Frederiksberg]

Looks like Murky's latest save has them pop-rushing hard like we just did, only they are over 20 turns ahead of us.

Yes, I'm 99% certain that they will claim the gold and it's almost impossible to judge from the progress chart if OSS and Smurkz are ahead or behind. Gypsy Kings are still a dark horse but I expect that we have them beaten since they show now sign of having starting the final military expansion and pop-rushing phase.

 

[Cactus Pete]

"Does anyone know what has prompted the Persians to send out the archer from Susa and the axe+cat from Gordium? Is it the siege at Persepolis or the undefended Parsagadea that is attracting these units."

The Susa archer was probably not sent out from the city but, rather, traveled there from Pasargadae area (pretty sure he is same archer that we considered attacking with the WE during our discussion of abandoning Pasargadae). When the Gordium units moved during the IBT, PARS was still defended. I suspect that they were either interested in re-taking the city or capturing our worker. Hope it was the latter. If so, and they continue in that direction, then we may be able to move him further east and take those units out of play.

 

[Jimmy Thunder]

Actually I think I did make a mistake when I looked at the save yesterday. My plan was designed for winning in T215 after only 4 turns (not counting the present turn) and not in T216. You have to be really careful when you do this counting. Maybe we should go for winning in 4 turns?

Am I working on a plan for winning in t215 or t216?

 

[Cactus Pete]

Am I working on a plan for winning in t215 or t216?

t215 is theoretically possible, but I think the RNG would have to be very kind for that to happen, so t216 is probably a wiser target. By the time you are ready to post a plan, I expect you'll have come to your own conclusion. Be delighted if you can make a strong case for t215 but don't expect to be reading it.

 

[leif erikson]

t215 is theoretically possible, but I think the RNG would have to be very kind for that to happen, so t216 is probably a wiser target. By the time you are ready to post a plan, I expect you'll have come to your own conclusion. Be delighted if you can make a strong case for t215 but don't expect to be reading it.

I agree, the faster the better. However, we do need to be realistic.

Winning on turn 216 would be better than turn 220...

Good luck.

 

[Jimmy Thunder]

Unfortunately didn't get enough time to look at it today. It will have to wait till tomorrow.

 

[Frederiksberg]

We are not really pressed for time since the deadline is 2 months from now.

I discovered a mistake in my whip schedule for Parsagadea. I forgot about the whip penalty for not having invested hammers. It means that we must use one turn for building the chariots before they can be whipped since the overflow of the current build is only 1 hammer. This also means that the chariot built in Parsagadea can't assist in a Susa attack at T215 it will be available for attack at T216. The second chariot can be whipped immediately after the first due to the overflow compensating some of the penalty and it will be available for attack at Gordium in T216.

To sum up, waiting for T216 with the attack means that we have an additional cat and chariot available for attacking Susa, the WE and 2 cats from Shannons Raider will have time to land before they attack Gordium and finally we will have time for additional bombing of Susa and Damascus.

Here's an updated list of what we could have available for attack:

T216:

Gordium: xbow, sword, cat (FF) 2 cats, WE (SR), 2 chariots, and survivors from Persepolis.

Susa: 3 cats, xbow, WE, 2 axes, chariot

Damascus: 4 WE's, 3 swords (2 are somewhat wounded), 1 cat

Kufah: 2 xbows, 2 swords, 2 cats

T215:

Gordium: xbow, sword, cat (FF) 2 cats, WE (Amphibious from SR), 2 chariots, and (some) survivors from Persepolis.

Susa: 2 cats, xbow, WE, 2 axes

Damascus: 4 WE's, 3 swords (2 are somewhat wounded), 1 cat

Kufah: 2 xbows, 2 swords, 2 cats

How about using the 4 workers on the Medina ruins + the worker north of Susa to chop the forest SW of Mecca - it would be chopped by T213 and the next forest SE in T214. Too late if things go according to plan but I think we need to plan so that failing to take a city (e.g. if Kufah builds an extra archer) will cause a minimum number of turns in delay.

 

[leif erikson]

To sum up, waiting for T216 with the attack means that we have an additional cat and chariot available for attacking Susa, the WE and 2 cats from Shannons Raider will have time to land before they attack Gordium and finally we will have time for additional bombing of Susa and Damascus.

Here's an updated list of what we could have available for attack:

T216:

Gordium: xbow, sword, cat (FF) 2 cats, WE (SR), 2 chariots, and survivors from Persepolis.

Susa: 3 cats, xbow, WE, 2 axes, chariot

Damascus: 4 WE's, 3 swords (2 are somewhat wounded), 1 cat

Kufah: 2 xbows, 2 swords, 2 cats

T215:

Gordium: xbow, sword, cat (FF) 2 cats, WE (Amphibious from SR), 2 chariots, and (some) survivors from Persepolis.

Susa: 2 cats, xbow, WE, 2 axes

Damascus: 4 WE's, 3 swords (2 are somewhat wounded), 1 cat

Kufah: 2 xbows, 2 swords, 2 cats

As CP seemed to be having some difficulty with new units popping up at bad times, perhaps, where we can, we should attack on turn 215. It seems that Kufah and Gordium may be candidates for early attacks?

 

[Frederiksberg]

As CP seemed to be having some difficulty with new units popping up at bad times, perhaps, where we can, we should attack on turn 215. It seems that Kufah and Gordium may be candidates for early attacks?

And Damascus as well.

 

[leif erikson]

And Damascus as well.

Wherever we can attack with favorable odds, the earlier the better.

 

[Frederiksberg]

I noticed that Smurkz are gaining power fast without any sign of heavy whipping. Maybe they are building maces? This could be a very close finish indeed.

 

[leif erikson]

I noticed that Smurkz are gaining power fast without any sign of heavy whipping. Maybe they are building maces? This could be a very close finish indeed.

The lines are very close indeed. I wish we could go and read and see what they are doing, where their units are. It must be to be able to read all the threads and try to figure out who will finish where...

 

[Cactus Pete]

"It means that we must use one turn for building the chariots before they can be whipped since the overflow of the current build is only 1 hammer."

Don't follow this. Why isn't one hammer enough? Whip is for 45, chariot costs 37.

 

[Frederiksberg]

"It means that we must use one turn for building the chariots before they can be whipped since the overflow of the current build is only 1 hammer."

Don't follow this. Why isn't one hammer enough? Whip is for 45, chariot costs 37.

If you whip without having done at least one turn of normal building you only get 30 hammers for one pop. So the first chariot need one turn of building and then we whip for 45 hammers leaving enough overflow (>8 hammers) to whip the next chariot immediately for 30 hammers + overflow.

 

[DJMGator13]

If you whip without having done at least one turn of normal building you only get 30 hammers for one pop. So the first chariot need one turn of building and then we whip for 45 hammers leaving enough overflow (>8 hammers) to whip the next chariot immediately for 30 hammers + overflow.

So the overflow doesn't count as part of the normal build? Didn't know that.

 

[Jimmy Thunder]

Spent ages looking at the save and I will follow this quoted plan below. I can see where the units come from so won't bother writing it all out in full.

Planning to finish in 4 turns, t215, but will have the backup units on their way.

Here's an updated list of what we could have available for attack:

T216:

Gordium: xbow, sword, cat (FF) 2 cats, WE (SR), 2 chariots, and survivors from Persepolis.

Susa: 3 cats, xbow, WE, 2 axes, chariot

Damascus: 4 WE's, 3 swords (2 are somewhat wounded), 1 cat

Kufah: 2 xbows, 2 swords, 2 cats

T215: <-----

Gordium: xbow, sword, cat (FF) 2 cats, WE (Amphibious from SR), 2 chariots, and (some) survivors from Persepolis.

Susa: 2 cats, xbow, WE, 2 axes (we could have 1 extra xbow if we divert it from kufah)

Damascus: 4 WE's, 3 swords (2 are somewhat wounded), 1 cat (2WE's and a sword will be amphibious attack?)

Kufah: 2 xbows, 2 swords, 2 cats (1xbow could be used at Susa, we have 2 IBT's to decide).

If my whip technique at the bottom of this ppost works we can have an extra xbow for use at either Damascus or Kufah in time for t215.

Will attack Persepolis next turn. Will pause for discussion if it seems the survivors won't be enough to handle Gordium. Do we raze Persep or leave it empty hoping to draw cats out of Susa?

Will attack Nidaros and Uppsalla in two turns time. Position troops around viking cities, pillage fishing boats and move a contingency galleon toward each of Baghdad and Gordium.

4 workers near Medina ruins and worker north of Susa will chop SW forest at Mecca, this should be able to go into a chariot since the river and road will connect it to Ectabana once Persep is gone. The five of them should be able to do a chop on turn 213 and 214.

Question on whipping: Can we whip 2 pop at Pasagardae, into an explorer for example, and then cancel the build, switch back to the catapult and we get 60 hammer overflow that could be used to build a chariot next turn? This way we get some hammers for our pop that would have starved.

Could also whip an archer this turn in Mecca and build the already whipped cat on the following turn. This delays cat one turn (but can still reach either damascus or kufah within the 4-turn time frame) and get an archer that could be upgraded to xbow for use in the same 4 turn timeframe.

Will the two above techniques of double whipping work? (ie does the 2nd whipped popn stay as an overflow or is it lost?)

 

[Cactus Pete]

Planning to finish in 4 turns, t215, but will have the backup units on their way.

Minor note on units listed: there is an axe by Kufah that could be used there too if necessary.

Will attack Persepolis next turn. Will pause for discussion if it seems the survivors won't be enough to handle Gordium. Do we raze Persep or leave it empty hoping to draw cats out of Susa? We'll have units on the road north to Susa. I'd think that would discourage venturesome cats.

Will attack Nidaros and Uppsalla in two turns time. Position troops around viking cities, pillage fishing boats and move a contingency galleon toward each of Baghdad and Gordium. Okay.

4 workers near Medina ruins and worker north of Susa will chop SW forest at Mecca, this should be able to go into a chariot since the river and road will connect it to Ectabana once Persep is gone. The five of them should be able to do a chop on turn 213 and 214. That's part of your back up plan for turn 216?

Question on whipping: Can we whip 2 pop at Pasagardae, into an explorer for example, and then cancel the build, switch back to the catapult and we get 60 hammer overflow that could be used to build a chariot next turn? This way we get some hammers for our pop that would have starved. Interesting . . . I don't know, but I'll bet someone on the team does or knows how to find out.

Could also whip an archer this turn in Mecca and build the already whipped cat on the following turn. This delays cat one turn (but can still reach either damascus or kufah within the 4-turn time frame) and get an archer that could be upgraded to xbow for use in the same 4 turn timeframe. Would we be better off taking this approach if another archer is built in Kufah?

Will the two above techniques of double whipping work? (ie does the 2nd whipped popn stay as an overflow or is it lost?) See above.

JT, there is another quite important matter that needs to be brought up: This is crunch time, and the usual sacrifices to the RNG gods, while certainly worthwhile, perhaps even necessary, are not sufficient at such a fateful moment. What the team and circumstances require is that you not only appease the gods but also intimidate the AI. To assure a quick victory, you are obligated by X-team tradition -- however nascent -- to vigorously (Is there any other way?) perform a Haka, complete with a Maori war chant so exhuberant and ferocious that Cyrus, Saladin, and Ragnar will all tremble at its implication.

I know you are just the hirsute Kiwi for the job.

 

[Capt Buttkick]

Good 1, CP

The suspense is killing me. I could use this as an exercise in self discipline, or I could just go read the other threads.
I guess I'll see you when you've finished your game