SGOTM 06 - Xteam

[Frederiksberg]

Here's an updated list of what we could have available for attack:

T216:

Gordium: xbow, sword, cat (FF) 2 cats, WE (SR), 2 chariots, and survivors from Persepolis.

Susa: 3 cats, xbow, WE, 2 axes, chariot

Damascus: 4 WE's, 3 swords (2 are somewhat wounded), 1 cat

Kufah: 2 xbows, 2 swords, 2 cats

T215: <-----

Gordium: xbow, sword, cat (FF) 2 cats, WE (Amphibious from SR), 2 chariots, and (some) survivors from Persepolis.

Susa: 2 cats, xbow, WE, 2 axes (we could have 1 extra xbow if we divert it from kufah) True

Damascus: 4 WE's, 3 swords (2 are somewhat wounded), 1 cat (2WE's and a sword will be amphibious attack?) No - not according to this time line (Note the galleon chaining):
T212: Load MP's FL with sword and WE and move to Damascus.
T213: Unload units at Damascus and move back south to plains forest.
T214: Move Cactus Breeze to same tile as MP's FL and transfer units. Sail MP's FL to Damascus and unload units.


Kufah: 2 xbows, 2 swords, 2 cats (1xbow could be used at Susa, we have 2 IBT's to decide).

If my whip technique at the bottom of this ppost works we can have an extra xbow for use at either Damascus or Kufah in time for t215.

To me it seems that it's not really an extra unit but rather replacing a catapult.

Will attack Persepolis next turn. Will pause for discussion if it seems the survivors won't be enough to handle Gordium. Do we raze Persep or leave it empty hoping to draw cats out of Susa?

Don't know if that works. Can it hurt to try?

Question on whipping: Can we whip 2 pop at Pasagardae, into an explorer for example, and then cancel the build, switch back to the catapult and we get 60 hammer overflow that could be used to build a chariot next turn? This way we get some hammers for our pop that would have starved.

I don't know if this is possible. It seems logical that hammers invested in an exporer can't be used for anything else. Whipping two pop will not stop starvation and we get only one unit this way so I still recommend to build chariot for one turn and then whip chariots in T213 and T214 (available in T214 and T215). When going for a 4 turn win you could either choose to use the T213 chariot against Gordium or as a backup in Susa.

Could also whip an archer this turn in Mecca and build the already whipped cat on the following turn. This delays cat one turn (but can still reach either damascus or kufah within the 4-turn time frame) and get an archer that could be upgraded to xbow for use in the same 4 turn timeframe.

This means one less cat is built. Is the xbow more valuable against Kufah and are you sure that an archer can be whipped? Might be a good idea.

 

[Frederiksberg]

JT, there is another quite important matter that needs to be brought up: This is crunch time, and the usual sacrifices to the RNG gods, while certainly worthwhile, perhaps even necessary, are not sufficient at such a fateful moment. What the team and circumstances require is that you not only appease the gods but also intimidate the AI. To assure a quick victory, you are obligated by X-team tradition -- however nascent -- to vigorously (Is there any other way?) perform a Haka, complete with a Maori war chant so exhuberant and ferocious that Cyrus, Saladin, and Ragnar will all tremble at its implication.

I know you are just the hirsute Kiwi for the job.

And could you please have your wife film this with her mobile and put it on YouTube so that we can see that you are giving all you have got to the team? Maybe cross cut with a clip from Any Given Sunday.

 

[Mad Professor]

JT, you don't by any chance this feeling that there's a pack of people hanging around watching and waiting or something do you?

 

[leif erikson]

I hope SCT can assist with the details of your whip questions. I don't think I can help any more than what you've already received except to stand with you as you go forth.

Unlike, apparently, some...

The suspense is killing me. I could use this as an exercise in self discipline, or I could just go read the other threads.
I guess I'll see you when you've finished your game

Now we know where your true loyalties lie CB.
Wish I could join you...

JT, there is another quite important matter that needs to be brought up: This is crunch time, and the usual sacrifices to the RNG gods, while certainly worthwhile, perhaps even necessary, are not sufficient at such a fateful moment. What the team and circumstances require is that you not only appease the gods but also intimidate the AI. To assure a quick victory, you are obligated by X-team tradition -- however nascent -- to vigorously (Is there any other way?) perform a Haka, complete with a Maori war chant so exhuberant and ferocious that Cyrus, Saladin, and Ragnar will all tremble at its implication.

I know you are just the hirsute Kiwi for the job.

I hope the rest of you understand that this isn't just a ritual for JT. I expect each of you to do the same before JT grabs his mouse.

A worldwide war chant should shake the foundations of the known civ universe. All for one as we gather in spirit for the glorious ending of three civilizations...

As I am not as steeped in Maori tradition, check this out if you're curious. I'm practicing in my backyard...

JT, you don't by any chance this feeling that there's a pack of people hanging around watching and waiting or something do you?

Awww, please don't make him any more nervous than he already is. No need for a shaky hand and increased chances of mis-clicks...

Now, go forth JT and have confidence that we are with you.

 

[rrau]

no clue what a haka is....The utube link's too loud to play at work if it shows what it is.

 

[leif erikson]

no clue what a haka is....The utube link's too loud to play at work if it shows what it is.

Perhaps this one is a bit quieter, and probably, more traditional.

 

[Cactus Pete]

"T214: Move Cactus Breeze to same tile as MP's FL and transfer units. Sail MP's FL to Damascus and unload units." Fred, are you sure that you can transfer units and unload them on the same turn?

"I hope the rest of you understand that this isn't just a ritual for JT. I expect each of you to do the same before JT grabs his mouse." What have I gotten myself into?!

 

[leif erikson]

"T214: Move Cactus Breeze to same tile as MP's FL and transfer units. Sail MP's FL to Damascus and unload units." Fred, are you sure that you can transfer units and unload them on the same turn?

I just tested this with an old save. Transferring the units from one Galleon to another uses the movement point. The units cannot be unloaded on the same turn that they are transferred. The units can be transferred numerous times between Galleons, but they cannot be unloaded on the same turn as the transfer, except in a city. (where they will not be on the Galleon, but they will not be able to move until the next turn.)

"I hope the rest of you understand that this isn't just a ritual for JT. I expect each of you to do the same before JT grabs his mouse." What have I gotten myself into?!

I have my wife ready to do it as well. Not sure my teenagers are as enthusiastic...


I'm impressed with your knowledge of Maori customs.

 

[Frederiksberg]

"T214: Move Cactus Breeze to same tile as MP's FL and transfer units. Sail MP's FL to Damascus and unload units." Fred, are you sure that you can transfer units and unload them on the same turn?

No, I forgot that they loose their movement point when transferred to another galleon. You can transfer units without movement points between galleons but if they have movement points they will be used up in the first transfer.

EDIT: X-posted with leif.

EDIT2: This means, of course, that the units in the galleon will only be available for amphibious attack at T215 as JT says. I wonder if we should postpone the attack to T216?

 

[Cactus Pete]

"This means, of course, that the units in the galleon will only be available for amphibious attack at T215 as JT says. I wonder if we should postpone the attack to T216?" There remains the possibility of sending MP's FL toward Cactus Breeze next turn and moving the Medina units by land.

" I have my wife ready to do it as well." Not enthusuastic about getting the wives involved. I'd end up in costume.

 

[leif erikson]

Not enthusuastic about getting the wives involved. I'd end up in costume.

Think of those grass skirts as Kilts...
Who knows, we might look hip?

 

[Frederiksberg]

"This means, of course, that the units in the galleon will only be available for amphibious attack at T215 as JT says. I wonder if we should postpone the attack to T216?" There remains the possibility of sending MP's FL toward Cactus Breeze next turn and moving the Medina units by land.

The Medina units won't be available for attack before T216 if moved by land. On the other hand the 2 WE's and the sword from Cactus Breeze will have time to unload before an attack at T215.

This means that we would have the following forces available at Damascus:

3 WE's, 2 swords (1 is somewhat wounded), 1 cat. They are up against 3 archers and 2 chariots. Cultural defense will be at 14% after two rounds of bombarding. The full strength sword and two of the WE's should be big favorites against the 3 archers and the last WE is a sure winner against the chariot thus leaving the cat and the wounded sword to handle the last chariot. Looks like it could work! Only question is where we should send the Medina WE and the sword for T216 backup. Maybe they should both go towards Susa?

 

[Jimmy Thunder]

I played the last moves of turn 212 and have launched the attack on Persepolis. The defenders were punishing and our haka was about as effective as the All Black haka was at the last rugby world cup.

We faced 2 archers, 2 axes, 1 spear and 1 cat.

Our cr2 cat vs their archer (25.5%) lose
Our cr3 sword vs their axe (68.3%) lose
Our cr1 cat vs their archer (20.1%) lose (I should have made this our second attack)
Our cr1/shock sword vs their axe (81.8%) lose
Our cr2 swords vs their wounded axe (94.2%) win
Our c1 WE vs their spear (56.1%) lose

So we have a problem. We have 1 WE,2 cats and a chariot across the river from their unharmed cat, and badly wounded archer,archer,spear,axe.
Our WE is 76% to win against the cat which would let our two cats win vs their opponents and have the chariot be able to beat his opponent, leaving a single wounded defender to kill next turn.

If our WE loses at 76% odds we are pretty screwed.

I think we are pretty much forced to continue attacking and “hope”. I’m pretty gutted about the attack and won’t play until we’ve discussed it.

In other news:
Damascus has an extra archer. The Persian axe/cat by Gordium and a cat from Susa went for the worker bait. An arab warrior is next to Haithbu. Barb axe didn’t attack us at Perseplis but now threatens our remaining sword. The injured elephant drew both HA’s and a cat out of Nidaros.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/114316/SGOTM_pers_battle_Churchill_AD-0680.CivWarlordsSave

 

[leif erikson]

I played the last moves of turn 212 and have launched the attack on Persepolis. The defenders were punishing and our haka was about as effective as the All Black haka was at the last rugby world cup.

That's what I get for having too much fun with the Haka...

Darn RNG...

I think we are pretty much forced to continue attacking and “hope”. I’m pretty gutted about the attack and won’t play until we’ve discussed it.

I agree that there is no going back. I can't find any other troops close enough to be of quick assistance? Can we use the Cat just produced in Pasargadae to attract the Axe or is it needed at Susa?

Time for a quiet prayer instead of chest bashing?

In other news:
Damascus has an extra archer. The Persian axe/cat by Gordium and a cat from Susa went for the worker bait. An arab warrior is next to Haithbu. Barb axe didn’t attack us at Perseplis but now threatens our remaining sword. The injured elephant drew both HA’s and a cat out of Nidaros.

At least we can pop-rush an Archer in Haithabu to keep the Arab Warrior at bay. It believe it will appear before the Warrior can attack.

 

[DJMGator13]

I think we are pretty much forced to continue attacking and “hope”. I’m pretty gutted about the attack and won’t play until we’ve discussed it.

Maybe the break will allow the relief dealer to take over control of the rng and bring us some better luck. I'd say we're committed to the attack. Those units weren't "officially" committed elsewhere, ie Susa, so if we still take the city with what is there nothing is lost.

Did you try the whisky and ice cream method?

 

[Cactus Pete]

Tough luck, JT. BTW, wasn't it the French that beat you? That should have told us something.

I'll have time to look at the save in about 12 hours.

Where's SCT? Is he playing hooky from the haka, or has his flu turned into pneumonia?

 

[Frederiksberg]

Our cr1 cat vs their archer (20.1%) lose (I should have made this our second attack)

This would only have made a slight difference by increasing the odds of the sword. The probability of loosing all of the first 4 battles was only 3.5% so it was really a case of bad luck.

So we have a problem. We have 1 WE,2 cats and a chariot across the river from their unharmed cat, and badly wounded archer,archer,spear,axe.
Our WE is 76% to win against the cat which would let our two cats win vs their opponents and have the chariot be able to beat his opponent, leaving a single wounded defender to kill next turn.

If our WE loses at 76% odds we are pretty screwed.

If the WE looses there will most likely be 2 defenders left in Persepolis after attacks by our two cats and the chariot. Since our sword will likely be killed by the barb axe we only have these 3 units next turn against two promoted defenders. What are the odds if we attack with a cat now? I'm not sure it's a good idea but it's the only alternative. The benefit would be that we keep our best attacking unit a little longer. The problem is that the chance that we leave two defenders go up considerably. And if one of the remaining defenders is the spear we are still in trouble.

 

[Mad Professor]

I fear I'm no help a'm I'm plaing a couple of game to evnetually post to HOF and have had some woeful results. I'm developing a thoery that that the
RNG gods have it in for me, and I can add nothing here...

Mind you, having a couple less beers before beginning to play might help...

 

[Mistfit]

Did you try the whisky and ice cream method?

Please keep in mind that this is also a very advanced technique as well.. It has taken me years to perfect.

 

[rrau]

I say go for it.