culdeus
Emperor
Well, that will get us to astro correct?
SGOTM 07 - Fifth Element
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
Well, that will get us to astro correct?
Sabre
Cheftain
Yep, that's the last tech we need before Liberalism is up. We still have @8 turns until we finish Liberalism and Philo is a key tech so I'm planning on holding off the trade until the end of my set/beginning of next set. Something better may come up and I'd rather not risk getting another civ that much closer to Lib.
MacBalt
Learnéd Fool
Hmmm... Does HC have Paper yet? I'm tempted to go ahead and make the Optics trade now (though I'd rather get it from Liz). We could crank a caravel out and go looking for that other continent. If there are Diplomatic penalties that go with trading with HC then that might be a good reason to wait a while tho...
Sabre
Cheftain
Actually I was just coming to post that HC has pulled Optics off the table (we are too advanced) but that Khan has it available for pretty much the same deal. He also does not have Paper yet. Asoka has just teched Education and so is able to get Liberalism. We have 4 turns left, so rather than risking Khan also pulling Optics off the table I'm going to make the trade now and pray we can beat Asoka.
MacBalt
Learnéd Fool
I think this is a good decision. Khan may give us diplomatic penalties with Asoka or George, but I don't think we have any choice now. I think we'll beat Asoka, but I'm keeping my fingers crossed anyway. 
We're all agreed to take Astronomy from Liberalism, right?
We're all agreed to take Astronomy from Liberalism, right?
Sabre
Cheftain
Actually Asoka went cautious to Khan the turn before and Washington just went cautious to us, so that part's all good. 
MacBalt
Learnéd Fool
Excellent! Full steam ahead. 
Sabre
Cheftain
Turn 0 - 25bc: Trade Philosophy, 210g to JC for Machinery
Turn 1 - 1ad: Only doable trade for Optics right now is HC for Philo. HC will throw in a wm and 60g
Lizzy (available but not doable), Fred, Wash, Asoka and Khan also have Optics
ibt - HC offers Optics for Philo, 70g - decline
Turn 2 - 25ad: Cottage worker to marble
ibt - "The peace loving people of India seek a fair trade with China. How about it?" Offer 60g for Education. Um... No.
Turn 3 - 50ad: Oxford University is finished! Begin Harbor. I forgot about the forest chop finishing the cottage SW. Huge hammer carryover gives us Harbor in 1 turn. Another good reason for Harbor over Work Boat.
Liberalism will now finish in 5 turns
MM marble, forest hill to cottages (checked if running coast over cottage/hill would get Lib in 4 - no dice)
Khan makes Optics available for Philo, wm, 30g
Turn 4 - 75ad: Harbor finished. Begin Work Boat.
HC takes Optics off the table (we are too advanced)
Khan still has it available and Asoka is now able to research Liberalism so I'm going to make the trade now
Trade Philosophy to Khan for Optics, wm, 30g
Washington is back to cautious with us
ibt - Washington offers Engineering, 30g for Education - decline
Turn 5 - 100ad: Nothing to report
Turn 6 - 125ad: Build Work Boat. Begin Work Boat.
Asoka circumnavigates the globe
The moment of truth has arrived - 2 turns to Liberalism. Will we make it in time? The suspense is killing me! Hits enter...
Turn 7 - 150ad: Build Work Boat. Begin Caravel. Wasn't sure what we wanted next, but this is my last turn so we can switch to whatever is best.
Toku makes peace with Alex
Sheep worker finishes pasture, begins road
Asoka does not research Liberalism! Next turn it is ours.
Well, that's it for my turnset.
We have a few trade opportunities available now that Lib is in the bag.
Washington will give Engineering, Theology and 30g for Education. He has been flip flopping between cautious and annoyed during my turns. He is currently cautious.
Washington will also trade Feudalism, Theology, Horseback Riding, wm, and 30g for Education. I like the other trade better. Many more trade opportunities for Feudalism than Engineering right now.
JC will take Paper, wm and 30g for Feudalism or will just give 110g for Paper. He'll add HBR, but I doubt we want that at all.
Izzy will trade Theology, 30g for Philosophy or Feudalism, 30g for Paper, Philosophy. Optics is worthless to her so she must be about to finish that.
We are still losing culture on the clam (68%), fish(91%), iron(82%) and silver(61%) even after Oxford at about 1% per turn.
Alex converted to Hinduism last turn so he is no longer universally hated
My autolog:
edit - Checking the graphs, we got a nice little bump in score and power. Our recovery is well under way!
Turn 1 - 1ad: Only doable trade for Optics right now is HC for Philo. HC will throw in a wm and 60g
Lizzy (available but not doable), Fred, Wash, Asoka and Khan also have Optics
ibt - HC offers Optics for Philo, 70g - decline
Turn 2 - 25ad: Cottage worker to marble
ibt - "The peace loving people of India seek a fair trade with China. How about it?" Offer 60g for Education. Um... No.
Turn 3 - 50ad: Oxford University is finished! Begin Harbor. I forgot about the forest chop finishing the cottage SW. Huge hammer carryover gives us Harbor in 1 turn. Another good reason for Harbor over Work Boat.
Liberalism will now finish in 5 turns
MM marble, forest hill to cottages (checked if running coast over cottage/hill would get Lib in 4 - no dice)
Khan makes Optics available for Philo, wm, 30g
Turn 4 - 75ad: Harbor finished. Begin Work Boat.
HC takes Optics off the table (we are too advanced)
Khan still has it available and Asoka is now able to research Liberalism so I'm going to make the trade now
Trade Philosophy to Khan for Optics, wm, 30g
Washington is back to cautious with us
ibt - Washington offers Engineering, 30g for Education - decline
Turn 5 - 100ad: Nothing to report
Turn 6 - 125ad: Build Work Boat. Begin Work Boat.
Asoka circumnavigates the globe
The moment of truth has arrived - 2 turns to Liberalism. Will we make it in time? The suspense is killing me! Hits enter...
Turn 7 - 150ad: Build Work Boat. Begin Caravel. Wasn't sure what we wanted next, but this is my last turn so we can switch to whatever is best.
Toku makes peace with Alex
Sheep worker finishes pasture, begins road
Asoka does not research Liberalism! Next turn it is ours.
Well, that's it for my turnset.
We have a few trade opportunities available now that Lib is in the bag.
Washington will give Engineering, Theology and 30g for Education. He has been flip flopping between cautious and annoyed during my turns. He is currently cautious.
Washington will also trade Feudalism, Theology, Horseback Riding, wm, and 30g for Education. I like the other trade better. Many more trade opportunities for Feudalism than Engineering right now.
JC will take Paper, wm and 30g for Feudalism or will just give 110g for Paper. He'll add HBR, but I doubt we want that at all.
Izzy will trade Theology, 30g for Philosophy or Feudalism, 30g for Paper, Philosophy. Optics is worthless to her so she must be about to finish that.
We are still losing culture on the clam (68%), fish(91%), iron(82%) and silver(61%) even after Oxford at about 1% per turn.
Alex converted to Hinduism last turn so he is no longer universally hated
My autolog:
Spoiler :
edit - Checking the graphs, we got a nice little bump in score and power. Our recovery is well under way!
MacBalt
Learnéd Fool
Great work Sabre! Our graph is starting to look pretty again too. Can't wait to have a look at the save.
EDIT: I'm thinking we'll want to research Printing Press after Liberalism+Astronomy, heading directly for Scientific Method. Anyone have any other ideas? As for the trades, nothing looks tempting right now (except maybe feudalism, I suppose). I think our next big tech trade targets should probably be Drama and/or Nationalism. We still have to build an Aqueduct and the National Epic (though NE should wait until the marble is online, of course). Is it worth building another work boat to access the whale? I'd like to finish the caravel first, but want to hear what others have to say about our build options too.
EDIT: It looks like we're going to need some gold soon too. J.C. has some cash. How much gold will he give with Feudalism for Paper if we drop the World Map? (I forgot to check.)
EDIT: I'm thinking we'll want to research Printing Press after Liberalism+Astronomy, heading directly for Scientific Method. Anyone have any other ideas? As for the trades, nothing looks tempting right now (except maybe feudalism, I suppose). I think our next big tech trade targets should probably be Drama and/or Nationalism. We still have to build an Aqueduct and the National Epic (though NE should wait until the marble is online, of course). Is it worth building another work boat to access the whale? I'd like to finish the caravel first, but want to hear what others have to say about our build options too.
EDIT: It looks like we're going to need some gold soon too. J.C. has some cash. How much gold will he give with Feudalism for Paper if we drop the World Map? (I forgot to check.)
BLubmuz
HoF Quattromaster
Well done, mainly the trades!
Only one thing to complain: after optics it was better start a caravel. No way to be first (Asoka did it), but i think that the soon we meet the remaining AIs, the better we can plan our game, and we'll have the best trade chances.
So, next turn we'll be first on liberalism (hopefully) and we'll take Astro.
I think it's the best choice.
For sure we'll switch immediately to Free Religion, what about Free Speech?
Perhaps it's better keep our Bureaucratic state, it isn't?
I guess that it's better take what GW offers: Engineering is a valuable tech.
Also, some trade with Alex is maybe possible now, we must verify his situation.
Roster
dutchfire - UP
culdeus - on deck
Sweetacshon - skip until news (floating)
Balthalion
greatbeyond
Merum
WastinTime
Blubmuz
Sabre - resting
Only one thing to complain: after optics it was better start a caravel. No way to be first (Asoka did it), but i think that the soon we meet the remaining AIs, the better we can plan our game, and we'll have the best trade chances.
So, next turn we'll be first on liberalism (hopefully) and we'll take Astro.
I think it's the best choice.
For sure we'll switch immediately to Free Religion, what about Free Speech?
Perhaps it's better keep our Bureaucratic state, it isn't?
I guess that it's better take what GW offers: Engineering is a valuable tech.
Also, some trade with Alex is maybe possible now, we must verify his situation.
Roster
dutchfire - UP
culdeus - on deck
Sweetacshon - skip until news (floating)
Balthalion
greatbeyond
Merum
WastinTime
Blubmuz
Sabre - resting
Lookin' good. I like how you checked to see if Lib in 4 turns was possible.
I'm not too excited about the NE anymore since our GLib scientists will be gone soon. We'da had it long ago if it weren't for that war. Edit: We will grow fast now and have other scientist running, so we should get this. Marble is ready in 3 turns.
Grow time. In about 10 turns we should grow 4-5. Get off the stone and onto the sheep. We're running out of things to build anyway and we need to chop/cottage for our new citizens, so that's more hammers. I like caravel next, then NE.
Anyone figure out how long we will keep the clams? If it's only a couple turns then send the 2nd WB to the whale. Let Liz get the clams. We need to make sure we trade for those clams.
Asoka is looking like a great PA if he's not "doing fine on his own". I'm thinking that won't be an issue with so many opponents. We'll see. We need to work on our relationship now so he will sign a DP. We may have to trade him stone for some coins just to have a trade active. As a backup plan, we could use an active trade with Liz. She's easier to PA with because of the shared Free Religion bonus.
Give Toku a couple things to get him +4 trade and Pleased again. Edit: He's got 2 clams and won't trade because he doesn't like us enough. Trading with him shouldn't anger anyone. Alex is Pleased with him. Weren't they just at war?
Wash: He jumps from cautious to annoyed based on how far up in the ranks he is. I can't recall exactly how that works. I think when he moves up, he gets more annoyed. So it would be best if we give tech to people below him to move him down. So that means, it's best to avoid trading with him.
Printing Press next.
I'm not too excited about the NE anymore since our GLib scientists will be gone soon. We'da had it long ago if it weren't for that war. Edit: We will grow fast now and have other scientist running, so we should get this. Marble is ready in 3 turns.
Grow time. In about 10 turns we should grow 4-5. Get off the stone and onto the sheep. We're running out of things to build anyway and we need to chop/cottage for our new citizens, so that's more hammers. I like caravel next, then NE.
Anyone figure out how long we will keep the clams? If it's only a couple turns then send the 2nd WB to the whale. Let Liz get the clams. We need to make sure we trade for those clams.
Asoka is looking like a great PA if he's not "doing fine on his own". I'm thinking that won't be an issue with so many opponents. We'll see. We need to work on our relationship now so he will sign a DP. We may have to trade him stone for some coins just to have a trade active. As a backup plan, we could use an active trade with Liz. She's easier to PA with because of the shared Free Religion bonus.
Give Toku a couple things to get him +4 trade and Pleased again. Edit: He's got 2 clams and won't trade because he doesn't like us enough. Trading with him shouldn't anger anyone. Alex is Pleased with him. Weren't they just at war?
Wash: He jumps from cautious to annoyed based on how far up in the ranks he is. I can't recall exactly how that works. I think when he moves up, he gets more annoyed. So it would be best if we give tech to people below him to move him down. So that means, it's best to avoid trading with him.
Printing Press next.
MacBalt
Learnéd Fool
I'd keep Bureaucracy going forever. In a one city challenge I don't think any other civics choice can compare to it. We should switch to Free Religion, IMHO, but I'm wondering if there are any other civics available we may want to try to get in a two-for-one anarchy period deal. Feudalism unlocks serfdom, but I'm not sure that one is worth giving up Caste System to get -- especially now that we have two workers and our food tiles are pretty much rebuilt. Once we get the Globe Theater online we could change from Hereditary Rule, but that is going to be a while. Mercantilism is also some time away, and probably not worth the trade penalty anyway. Okay, I've talked myself into thinking that just switching to Free Religion by itself is the way to go. Have I missed anything?
EDIT: cross-post with WT.
BLubmuz
HoF Quattromaster
Better define the civics plan before next TS.
Free religion is not optional, and we must switch ASAP to avoid someone asking to convert to something (and the 10% research bonus is huge).
Agreed on Bureaucracy, more opinions?
Better stay in Caste forever, we can run specialists at wish.
Mercantilism is a suicide, we gain 1 specialist and we loose all our trade routes.
Free market for sure (economics), possibly together with representation, (constitution).
WT, i agree (?) to not trade with GW, but what about Engineering?
Free religion is not optional, and we must switch ASAP to avoid someone asking to convert to something (and the 10% research bonus is huge).
Agreed on Bureaucracy, more opinions?
Better stay in Caste forever, we can run specialists at wish.
Mercantilism is a suicide, we gain 1 specialist and we loose all our trade routes.
Free market for sure (economics), possibly together with representation, (constitution).
WT, i agree (?) to not trade with GW, but what about Engineering?
Trade for Feudal and switch to Serfdom is a great idea. We have a lot of work to do yet. We can run 5 scientists (6 after Observatory) without CS.
Which reminds me. Observatory next turn! Forget the caravel and NE.
Edit: Don't forget the happiness we get from FreeReligion
Which reminds me. Observatory next turn! Forget the caravel and NE.
Edit: Don't forget the happiness we get from FreeReligion
MacBalt
Learnéd Fool
Ha! I knew I'd miss something.
Okay from me on the Observatory and on getting Feudalism for the double civics change to Free Religion and Serfdom at the same time.
Nice to have you back, WT.
Okay from me on the Observatory and on getting Feudalism for the double civics change to Free Religion and Serfdom at the same time.
Nice to have you back, WT.
BLubmuz
HoF Quattromaster
I hate serfdom, but i see your point.
Forget the caravel?
I disagree: the sooner we meet new civs, the best trades we can have for cheap techs or money.
This is worth a delay for observatory.
The NE can wait 'til after that.
Forget the caravel?
I disagree: the sooner we meet new civs, the best trades we can have for cheap techs or money.
This is worth a delay for observatory.
The NE can wait 'til after that.
Merum
Permanent Jet Lag
Are we beelining to physics to try to grab the scientist? Because if we aren't I don't see any immediate benefit to printing press other than the 1 gpt we'll pick up. I like the physics path but if that's not the plan then I'd prefer a path that takes us to constitution first so we can run rep after Globe installation.
I'm OK with observatory next. I'd rather still send the workboat to the clams if we don't have an aqueduct in the near future. We're going to be -2 health next turn and I'd rather not slow growth any more than we have to.
I am not a big fan of serfdom. I don't see enough worker tasks to justify taking the civic and then having to switch out of it later. We should do it only if it doesn't add to the anarchy time, and we have a plan to switch out of it.
I am currently living in mortal fear that the only aluminum to be found will be planted squarely in America and out of our cultural reach.
Engineering would be really nice to have if it doesn't hurt us with WFYABTA.
Edit: I'd like to see globe up ASAP to both slow the cultural decay in the west and allow us to trade off our happy resources.
I'm OK with observatory next. I'd rather still send the workboat to the clams if we don't have an aqueduct in the near future. We're going to be -2 health next turn and I'd rather not slow growth any more than we have to.
I am not a big fan of serfdom. I don't see enough worker tasks to justify taking the civic and then having to switch out of it later. We should do it only if it doesn't add to the anarchy time, and we have a plan to switch out of it.
I am currently living in mortal fear that the only aluminum to be found will be planted squarely in America and out of our cultural reach.
Engineering would be really nice to have if it doesn't hurt us with WFYABTA.
Edit: I'd like to see globe up ASAP to both slow the cultural decay in the west and allow us to trade off our happy resources.
Beeline to physics sounds good.
We'll be even on health (with fish) next turn. Then we get sheep hooked up. Clams (either we own it or trade for it.) So that's +3 health.
Yes, Serf because it's no anarchy. No plan needed to switch out later. What other civic would we run? Emancipation maybe for the cottage growth? Again, only if that switch is free too.
I find aluminum to be no big deal. Apollo is finished before it's discovered. It'd be nice for a couple parts, but not a deal breaker.
Yes, WFYABTA is a good reason to wait on Eng. We don't need that until we want to trade for Chemistry.
I'm OK if you guys really want that caravel, but I still vote for Observatory. They might come find us before we find them anyway (if Asoka gave them optics). And I'm not sure what "riches" we are hoping for over there. It's just a bunch more crazies that will demand stuff and cause us trouble. Maybe avoiding them is the best idea after all.
We'll be even on health (with fish) next turn. Then we get sheep hooked up. Clams (either we own it or trade for it.) So that's +3 health.
Yes, Serf because it's no anarchy. No plan needed to switch out later. What other civic would we run? Emancipation maybe for the cottage growth? Again, only if that switch is free too.
I find aluminum to be no big deal. Apollo is finished before it's discovered. It'd be nice for a couple parts, but not a deal breaker.
Yes, WFYABTA is a good reason to wait on Eng. We don't need that until we want to trade for Chemistry.
I'm OK if you guys really want that caravel, but I still vote for Observatory. They might come find us before we find them anyway (if Asoka gave them optics). And I'm not sure what "riches" we are hoping for over there. It's just a bunch more crazies that will demand stuff and cause us trouble. Maybe avoiding them is the best idea after all.
Merum
Permanent Jet Lag
I think the caravel is a basic waste of hammers at this point, since we'll have Astro next turn. Build the observatory and then a galleon later, or a frigate.
I'd like to get to emancipation because of the happiness hit our opponents will take, not to mention the fact that we can extract huge deals for demo. I don't want to stray too far from the path to rocketry, but constitution/democracy would be sure nice to have, and if we can pop the Taj real quick after nationalism, the GA would be very handy.
I'd like to get to emancipation because of the happiness hit our opponents will take, not to mention the fact that we can extract huge deals for demo. I don't want to stray too far from the path to rocketry, but constitution/democracy would be sure nice to have, and if we can pop the Taj real quick after nationalism, the GA would be very handy.
Agree caravel is a waste with galleons next turn. Start the Aqueduct then? Next turn Observatory. Or another WB for the whale/clam? Can we do a WB in 1 turn?
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