SGOTM 07 - Fifth Element

culdeus · Jul 8, 2008

Balthalion said:
What happened to them, I wonder???

I guess they're probably not going cultural.

I have a hard time theorizing what could make the power go up so far so fast. Tech trading alone I can't see doing it, but that was my theory before they plummeted.

I'm wondering if they just used a combination of whipping/upgrading/building to rush a huge gren army and then moved on a nearby civ and then disbanded whatever they didn't need after that?

Will be one of the first things I look into in a week or two.

Wrap this up fellas.

WastinTime · Jul 8, 2008

They must've built a huge army and then attacked. The huge drop is just the military losses they took. It will probably spike up again in a few years.

BLubmuz · Jul 8, 2008

Just back from Spain... Barcelona is worth a trip, even from overseas!!!

Well, i see we're still alive, and that Liz is by far the candidate for a PA. Right!

I've seen not many progresses in terms of TSs, but the finish date should be August 24th, so this is no more a problem.

Things seem to go in the direction we like, i've read our thread not too carefully, but it seem so.

I'll try to refresh the roster and the list of TSs tomorrow, and read again some posts.

greatbeyond · Jul 8, 2008

Welcome back Blubmuz, I hope someday to confirm your opinion of Spain.

Navy - I am thinking 2 to 4 ships

PA - I agree with Culdeus that singing a PA as soon as our partner can build Apollo is better. Should we wait until we have finished Fission, or wait longer as some have suggested?

XTeam's Power - Could signing a PA be responsible for the big jump in power?

Thank you for the clarification on the role of Banks and Markets

I will play tonight or in the morning as it looks like our discussions are running out of steam.

MacBalt · Jul 8, 2008

Great to have you back, BLub.

Just to reiterate, I vote NO to signing the PA right now (Liz has rocketry and could build Apollo now). We should play tech broker at least through Fission, probably through Refigeration, and possibly longer. We have a lot of trading left to do to get through both the railroad-combustion tech path and the assembly line-plastics tech path.

WastinTime · Jul 8, 2008

Balthalion said:
Great to have you back, BLub.

Just to reiterate, I vote NO to signing the PA right now (Liz has rocketry and could build Apollo now). We should play tech broker at least through Fission, probably through Refigeration, and possibly longer. We have a lot of trading left to do to get through both the railroad-combustion tech path and the assembly line-plastics tech path.

Agree with Balth.

greatbeyond · Jul 9, 2008

The Save:
http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm7/Fifth_Element_SG007_AD1510_01.Civ4SavedGame

The Turn Log:

Spoiler :

The Autolog:

Spoiler :

Not too much to report. We gave Liz Fission when she asked and traded Cyrus Rocketry for Assembly Line. Both Cyrus and Cathy have RR but won't trade it for anything other than Fission and Radio. We are researching Refrigeration.

Worker has made all improvements and is scouting Asoka's territory.

I started a Factory and am thinking maybe we should build the IW now to pump up our hammer production. I am wondering if we shouldn't build the Internet. It will give us all techs known by any two civs and maybe cut research time.

Merum · Jul 9, 2008

Turn 211, 1505 AD: Catherine has completed Apollo Program!

Can we now stop trying to be cute, sign the PA, and get this over with? Liz was the first to rocketry and squandered the lead building Eiffel.

Good job, GB.

WastinTime · Jul 9, 2008

Liz doesn't have Railroad and Cyrus/Cathy will trade for only Radio+small amt of gold. This is the most important role we play. Get that tech immediately and give it to Liz so she won't waste time on it and get Industrialism.

Liz got Eiffel, good. Of all the wonders available now, this is probably the best one. All cities get the benefit. Washington is giving a lot of culture pressure and I see Liz has won back her Wine tile already. That city won't be much good without tiles to work. If we pop another Great Artist, we may want to settle it in Liz's city for that reason. As a bonus, now she won't spend time building broadcast towers. At least Kremlin/pentagon/broadway are gone.

The worker needs to come home. He can pre-chop the forest by NY and has to be ready to mine aluminum if we have it.

So we tech broker railroad and combustion. Get refrig. Fur cancel = Plastics, not Indust. That's Ivory that gets cancelled at Industrial. But now that GB got us Assembly, we can see when Liz gets Industrial. That's a good time for PA cus it's hard to trade for and it reveals aluminum. We may need to trade that to Liz for Apollo and parts.

Good work starting the factory, but don't let it finish! Health/food is going to be a big problem when we lose sheep (not the health from sheep, the actual sheep tile that Liz gets when we sign the PA. I hope we have a supermarket by then.

Liz's cities are looking to be low production, we better get on that IW, but again, don't let it finish until we have genetics. EDIT: on 2nd thought, maybe IW hurts too much...both health and lowering our research to build it. I think we lose 1000 beakers building it for 10 turns. What we really need to know is whether Liz will need help building parts. I feel a test game coming.

Am I up next already? Oooo I Hope so! Revealing turnset coming. I'm out for the weekend and most of next week, so I'd rather go sooner than later.

WastinTime · Jul 9, 2008

Here's another trick that's coming up... Uranium/Oil.

On the same turn we sign the PA, we need to give away our Uranium and take liz's.
With combustion coming soon, we need to build the oil well and then take her oil.
These resources will just make her waste time building ships.

culdeus · Jul 9, 2008

Oh man, I'm nervous now. This is going to be really close.

Cathy is and always has been my late game nemesis.

culdeus · Jul 9, 2008

BTW numerous teams are making a very large army. Murky has started on this path much earlier than most. This would seem to me many will go by way of domination lite with a PA. Though just sort of a rough calculation of tiles doesn't seem to indicate just our island alone can do it. That little "tooth" island + ours just might do the trick, but it would be so hard to get a PA to follow you over there.

MacBalt · Jul 9, 2008

Well Done, GB. :goodjob:

We should definitely take that deal for Railroad with Cyrus. He wants radio +80 gold.

Also, I noticed that Mansa now has a Defense Pact with Cyrus too. That got me to thinking...

Cathy will DOW either Louis or Saladin for Fusion + Radio (and she's willing to throw in her 290 gold + Democracy + Theology + HBR too). We don't need or want the other techs, but getting her to DOW a 3rd party would make her break the DP she's got with Cyrus, which probably would have the effect of delaying (maybe aborting?) her looming Permanent Alliance with Cyrus. If she DOWs Saladin, I doubt she could conquer much, given that amphibious invasion would be required. Letting Cyrus partner up with technology-challenged and turf-limited Mansa might be far better for us than having a Cathy-Cyrus opponent. Of course, Fusion is a high price to pay, and I suppose Cathy could find some way to drag Cyrus into the fight too (though I doubt he'd do it), which would be bad for us... I think. On the other hand, shifting those AI back to a war focus (on someone other than us) might in itself delay their space efforts tremendously... :dunno:

What do you all think?

EDIT: Oh yeah, and we should upgrade that last Longbow to Infantry.

WastinTime · Jul 9, 2008

I think giving Fission only helps her toward space victory (not that we have anything to worry about.) I would just ignore Cathy and her Casings. She'll be lucky to build a couple thrusters before we're done.

MacBalt · Jul 9, 2008

I tend to agree, and I'm out of my depth here... but what if, for example, we (& Liz) have no aluminum? Could delaying the PA between Cyrus & Cathy keep the option open a little longer for us to bail on Liz and jump to Cyrus?

Just thinking out loud... :dunno:

EDIT: I'm willing to bet Liz has aluminum on that plains hill with the fan though... (or that we have it in one of our remaining open hill tiles).

WastinTime · Jul 9, 2008

You have some wise words there. I like the way you think. It might be nice to break up that alliance. I explored this a bit more. Instead of Louis (who Cathy loves). She will go to war with several others for just Radio and even give us a bunch of stuff. I'd rather not have her war with Louis/Mansa cus then she'll just get larger population. It should be someone off continent. How about we wait until after Railroad/combustion? (should be 1 turn) and then see what trouble we can stir up. We need to make sure it doesn't come back to haunt us.

Regarding aluminum. I don't see how we're going to know if we have it. Unless we can trade for Industrialism. That's an expensive tech.

MacBalt · Jul 9, 2008

I agree that IF we decide to do this then waiting a turn or two for RR/combustion is best. We'll have to be very careful not to upset our good relations with Liz and not to get embroiled (or get Liz embroiled) in anything tho. I just don't know if it is worth the risk or not...

Reg. aluminum: what are the chances Liz is working on that right now? (When did we giver her AL?) If she is, I wonder how long it will take her to complete it?

WastinTime · Jul 9, 2008

Industrial should be next and very soon. Then the question is...do we gamble she'll go for plastics or satellites instead of Mass Media. I'm guessing the group is itching to sign and revealing aluminum is probably a good reason to just get it over with. It may cost us a couple turns in research speed, but this odd map/setup could make production more of a bottleneck than usual.

I think it's too late to even build IW if we wanted to. Factory/Power should be fine. But I suppose it will have to be Nuclear (no coal).

MacBalt · Jul 9, 2008

Yeah, I agree. Let's do the PA once we know we've got Aluminum. I guess we should also try to break Cathy's DP with Cyrus if we can do it with only Radio and keep out of trouble at the same time -- so we've got somewhere to bail to if Liz doesn't have aluminum.

What does the rest of the team think?

WastinTime · Jul 9, 2008

Good news. I looked back on our save for t191. Cyrus/Cathy did not have a DP, yet so it will be at least 20 more turns before they can/will sign a PA.

SGOTM 07 - Fifth Element

Emperor

Deity

HoF Quattromaster

King

Learnéd Fool

Deity

King

Permanent Jet Lag

Deity

Deity

Emperor

Emperor

Learnéd Fool

Deity

Learnéd Fool

Deity

Learnéd Fool

Deity

Learnéd Fool

Deity

Similar threads