ruff_hi
Live 4ever! Or die trying
Ok - plan is to micro Mysticism to 2 turns, move exploring archer E to look at the Eastern Coast and the exploring warrior W around Japan towards Greece.
SGOTM 07 - The Real Ms. Beyond
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
ruff_hi
Live 4ever! Or die trying
save: http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm7/The_Real_Ms_Beyond_SG007_BC1480_01.Civ4SavedGame
Techs ...
Attitude ...
Future Tech ...
Trade Options: all trades for Alphabet ...
Spoiler Turn log :
Techs ...
Attitude ...
Future Tech ...
Trade Options: all trades for Alphabet ...
- Asoka will give Meditation, Polytheism and Masonry
- Washington will give Polytheism, Sailing and Masonry
- Elizabeth will give Masonry, Animal Husbandry and Bronze Working <-- this looks nice but remember that I don't trade techs well
- Fred (no trade for Myst) will give Sailing, Masonry and Animal Husbandry
- Isabella will give Sailing, Masonry and Animal Husbandry
- Alex will give Sailing, Masonry and Animal Husbandry
- Huayna will give Meditation Sailing and Masonry
- Tokugawa will not give anything
ruff_hi
Live 4ever! Or die trying
exploring E with Archer just revealed more ocean. Warrior is at Greece's border - OB with Alex?
PS: I have now participated in this game more than the last game. This round I moved 2 (count them ... 2) units!
PS: I have now participated in this game more than the last game. This round I moved 2 (count them ... 2) units!
Kodii
Ka ICE
I'm disappointed that no AIs besides Asoka have Math yet. I almost feel compelled to research one more tech (Masonry or Polytheism) before trading Alphabet, especially since according to what they will trade, none have really invested many beakers into it.
How do you people feel about taoism founded in a distant land? Seems to be on a different continent and it means that there are more advanced CIVs there (remember that most advanced -list, too..) and they might have literacy soon.. I was thinking of this in relation with our chances of Glib. Also, if we're still heading for it, we should get there asap, which means tech trade now.
Didn't lizzie have marble? So we might not want to trade alpha to her. I would be trading for BW, AH, Masonry, Poly, Sailing here (but tech trade planning is not my strength, so don't listen to me). Not sure what to do with maths though. What's the condition for it to become tradeable?
Didn't lizzie have marble? So we might not want to trade alpha to her. I would be trading for BW, AH, Masonry, Poly, Sailing here (but tech trade planning is not my strength, so don't listen to me). Not sure what to do with maths though. What's the condition for it to become tradeable?
Swiss Pauli
Emperor
- Joined
- Jul 29, 2006
- Messages
- 1,805
I had a look at the save. Some general thoughts:
- OBs with Fred and explore his lands.
- We can make a zero sum happy trade with Asoka (silver for incense). Will doing this stop an AI demanding our silver? Or do they only ask for genuine surplus resources?
- Taoism FIDL: could be worse as this is on the Medi, not the Poly, path.
Tech Trading
What do we want to accomplish? As I see it, we want max value from Alpha, but we want to limit the amount of AIs who can then research Literature. On this basis we have the following situation:
- Liz, Capac & Alex lack Poly. Fred & Toku lack Myst. Izzy won't trade Poly.
- Izzy has completed Oracle and Parthenon. I deduce that she has marble and two cities. Early Parth will make Poly less attractive to AIs.
- Asoka and GW will trade Poly.
- GW only has OBs w Fred and Liz, so we can trade to him without risking WoE (as long as we keep CBs).
- Asoka leads the Jewish bloc, is the tech leader, has good production, but has no marble.
- GW has marble up on the east coast. As far as I can see, NYC and DC aren't connected. GW might lose control of marble if Asoka steals a road tile, but this seems unlikely.
- I assume the AI will complete its current research and not switch mid-tech.
The choices as I see it are:
1. Go it alone: research Masonry, Poly then Lit. Try to get Maths for Alpha on discovery of Lit (to boost a farm chop).
2. Trade Masonry, Poly & Sailing/AH from GW. Start Lit immediately. Low risk of him yielding Alpha to other AIs as power is equal and his relations are not good. High risk of losing GLib if GW learns Lit around the same time as we do. Try to get Maths for Alpha on discovery of Lit (to boost a farm chop).
3. Trade Masonry, Poly & Sailing/AH from Asoka. Medium risk of him yielding Alpha to other Jewish AIs (but Liz & HC lack Poly). High risk of him teching Lit rapidly. Medium risk of losing GLib if he does so (no marble). Try to get Maths for Alpha on discovery of Lit (to boost a farm chop).
Of these options, I prefer #2, with Sailing rather than AH as I don't think we have the worker turns to improve the sheep, but we can work on a lighthouse whilst researching Literature.
- OBs with Fred and explore his lands.
- We can make a zero sum happy trade with Asoka (silver for incense). Will doing this stop an AI demanding our silver? Or do they only ask for genuine surplus resources?
- Taoism FIDL: could be worse as this is on the Medi, not the Poly, path.
Tech Trading
What do we want to accomplish? As I see it, we want max value from Alpha, but we want to limit the amount of AIs who can then research Literature. On this basis we have the following situation:
- Liz, Capac & Alex lack Poly. Fred & Toku lack Myst. Izzy won't trade Poly.
- Izzy has completed Oracle and Parthenon. I deduce that she has marble and two cities. Early Parth will make Poly less attractive to AIs.
- Asoka and GW will trade Poly.
- GW only has OBs w Fred and Liz, so we can trade to him without risking WoE (as long as we keep CBs).
- Asoka leads the Jewish bloc, is the tech leader, has good production, but has no marble.
- GW has marble up on the east coast. As far as I can see, NYC and DC aren't connected. GW might lose control of marble if Asoka steals a road tile, but this seems unlikely.
- I assume the AI will complete its current research and not switch mid-tech.
The choices as I see it are:
1. Go it alone: research Masonry, Poly then Lit. Try to get Maths for Alpha on discovery of Lit (to boost a farm chop).
2. Trade Masonry, Poly & Sailing/AH from GW. Start Lit immediately. Low risk of him yielding Alpha to other AIs as power is equal and his relations are not good. High risk of losing GLib if GW learns Lit around the same time as we do. Try to get Maths for Alpha on discovery of Lit (to boost a farm chop).
3. Trade Masonry, Poly & Sailing/AH from Asoka. Medium risk of him yielding Alpha to other Jewish AIs (but Liz & HC lack Poly). High risk of him teching Lit rapidly. Medium risk of losing GLib if he does so (no marble). Try to get Maths for Alpha on discovery of Lit (to boost a farm chop).
Of these options, I prefer #2, with Sailing rather than AH as I don't think we have the worker turns to improve the sheep, but we can work on a lighthouse whilst researching Literature.
ruff_hi
Live 4ever! Or die trying
do we have any update - thoughts on where we go from here? I'll like a team plan on trades and tech.
Kodii
Ka ICE
With it being Mother's Day and all, I would hold off until tomorrow before we actually get much discussion done.
Compromise
Emperor
- Joined
- Apr 17, 2006
- Messages
- 1,601
I too had a packed Mother's Day weekend. I'll be back in action tomorrow.
Compromise
Emperor
- Joined
- Apr 17, 2006
- Messages
- 1,601
I spent my entire Civ time budget today on a different SG, but I do want to make a comment here. Though I'm no tech trade expert, I can't see a reason not to execute Ruff's best find:
In the same turn, should we also try to get Polytheism and Sailing or should we wait to see if we can get Ironworking too the next turn? I don't have a sense of when WFYABTA will kick in.
In the same turn, should we also try to get Polytheism and Sailing or should we wait to see if we can get Ironworking too the next turn? I don't have a sense of when WFYABTA will kick in.
Swiss Pauli
Emperor
- Joined
- Jul 29, 2006
- Messages
- 1,805
No, I don't think that would be the best move. If want Lit ASAP we need to get Poly this turn.
Jabah
Emperor
Hi everyone.
Nice turns getting us 1st to Alpha (not that I thing there was a risk) and no one asking for it yet
.
[I am at work, so I can try and test the tech-trading.]*
I think we should trade Alpha for BW+Poly (and if possible get something like masonry), even if not completely fair for us, we could do it with a 'futur partner' to get a few + relation. (edit : that would be Asoka, because I would try to avoid trading with GW because of possible 'worst ennemy trading' minus - also Asoka is less likely to trade Alpha away next turn as he seems to have every visible tech)
And the following turn, we should try to get Iron + Masonry (+Animal + Sailing?), using Alpha (but also possibly Poly)
Jabah
Another option is to do the Lisa trade (BW+animal+masonry), turn research to 0% for 1t (fire scientist to get food or commerce) so we will have money for the few futur deficit, and next turn trade for IW+Poly (+ whatever/ sailing). I think I prefer this option.
Nice turns getting us 1st to Alpha (not that I thing there was a risk) and no one asking for it yet
.[I am at work, so I can try and test the tech-trading.]*
I think we should trade Alpha for BW+Poly (and if possible get something like masonry), even if not completely fair for us, we could do it with a 'futur partner' to get a few + relation. (edit : that would be Asoka, because I would try to avoid trading with GW because of possible 'worst ennemy trading' minus - also Asoka is less likely to trade Alpha away next turn as he seems to have every visible tech)
And the following turn, we should try to get Iron + Masonry (+Animal + Sailing?), using Alpha (but also possibly Poly)
Jabah
Another option is to do the Lisa trade (BW+animal+masonry), turn research to 0% for 1t (fire scientist to get food or commerce) so we will have money for the few futur deficit, and next turn trade for IW+Poly (+ whatever/ sailing). I think I prefer this option.
Well we could..
trade AH, Masonry and sailing from Huyana and BW and Poly from Asoka now
or
BW and poly now from asoka and see if Huyana gives us IW + masonry the next turn (unlikely) (small risk of huyana researching alpha more and us not getting sailing/ah)
For poly there are only two options.. Asoka or GW and I'm wondering if trading with GW is a good idea because he isn't that well liked. Also trading with huyana regarding Glib is pretty safe as he doesn't have poly yet.
trade AH, Masonry and sailing from Huyana and BW and Poly from Asoka now
or
BW and poly now from asoka and see if Huyana gives us IW + masonry the next turn (unlikely) (small risk of huyana researching alpha more and us not getting sailing/ah)
For poly there are only two options.. Asoka or GW and I'm wondering if trading with GW is a good idea because he isn't that well liked. Also trading with huyana regarding Glib is pretty safe as he doesn't have poly yet.
Jabah
Emperor
We can always add Poly to Alpha to get IW + masonry (not sure it will be enough, but if Capac is not researching Poly, it could be enough)
It might actually work without poly too as IW+masonry is AH+sailing+masonry which he is offering us now. So, my proposal:
Turn #1 Trade BW, poly from asoka, start researching Lit
Turn #2 Trade masonry, IW from Huyana, giving poly if needed.
This doesn't get us AH or sailing. Maybe trade them later as we don't want to spread the alphabet too much yet?
Turn #1 Trade BW, poly from asoka, start researching Lit
Turn #2 Trade masonry, IW from Huyana, giving poly if needed.
This doesn't get us AH or sailing. Maybe trade them later as we don't want to spread the alphabet too much yet?
Jabah
Emperor
Agree with all that.
It depends what we are ready to self-research (later) vs WFYABTA. (and we probably should not trade 'cheap' and not critically on the GLib path techs)
What is our plan for research while building GLib. I think we should aim at a very fast CS for Bureaucracy, but need to sort out the fastest way (probably CoL through religion techs - quickly self-researched, but if Currency become tradable at some point)
We don't really need sailing right now (except trade ?, or a lighthouse for faster growth, but are without production until GScinetist anyway, and probably can't make it before GL, so it could wait for after)
OTOH, IF we don't have Iron or Copper in the empty plain, we it could be tempting to check if there is horse there, which would speed our Wonder's construction abilities (via hammer boost)...
It depends what we are ready to self-research (later) vs WFYABTA. (and we probably should not trade 'cheap' and not critically on the GLib path techs)
What is our plan for research while building GLib. I think we should aim at a very fast CS for Bureaucracy, but need to sort out the fastest way (probably CoL through religion techs - quickly self-researched, but if Currency become tradable at some point)
We don't really need sailing right now (except trade ?, or a lighthouse for faster growth, but are without production until GScinetist anyway, and probably can't make it before GL, so it could wait for after)
OTOH, IF we don't have Iron or Copper in the empty plain, we it could be tempting to check if there is horse there, which would speed our Wonder's construction abilities (via hammer boost)...
Jabah
Emperor
On another subject (I could check at home in 4-5h, but if someone remebers that would be nice).
How is the 'culture war' on Marble, deer ? was the library enough to stop GW progress, did we start re-gaining % or are we still losing slowy ?
Also same for Silver (I assume the gap Kodii noticed happened when Washington had reached 100culture ?, same as when we do for our tiles. Seems there is a 'hard number' of culture added to tiles when reaching special value ?)
How is the 'culture war' on Marble, deer ? was the library enough to stop GW progress, did we start re-gaining % or are we still losing slowy ?
Also same for Silver (I assume the gap Kodii noticed happened when Washington had reached 100culture ?, same as when we do for our tiles. Seems there is a 'hard number' of culture added to tiles when reaching special value ?)
Jabah
Emperor
Still spamming
We should discuss what we are considering acceptable for request by an AI, especially:
- tech request (I would say yes)
- adopt religion (i would say yes as well for judaism (and no for the other if we get them), either swapping back asap if too dangerous, but delaying GLib with anarchy is not good)
- cancel deals (OB mainly), I would say yes to side with the Jewish block and even for the buddhist ones if it is against a non jewish.
- war (probably no)
We should discuss what we are considering acceptable for request by an AI, especially:
- tech request (I would say yes)
- adopt religion (i would say yes as well for judaism (and no for the other if we get them), either swapping back asap if too dangerous, but delaying GLib with anarchy is not good)
- cancel deals (OB mainly), I would say yes to side with the Jewish block and even for the buddhist ones if it is against a non jewish.
- war (probably no)
Similar threads
