Morganknight
Warlord
Got it. I'll look over things tonight and post some thoughts.
SGOTM 07 - Unusual Suspects
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
Yamps
Deity
Good to have you! I was a bit worried back there. Losing players is not a good thing. 
Morganknight
Warlord
OK, since I played last, my computer crashed and I had to reinstall all of my programs, including Civ. I have gone through step by step, installation, patch, dll, etc. and I am still unable to load the game. I get some sort of message saying that its checking to make sure the assets haven't been changed and then it says Failure to Load and sends me back to the desktop. I have been working on this for the last couple of hours and am ready to give up. I don't foresee any change in this situation, unless you guys have suggestions. If not, it is probably advisable for me to take a skip. I am very sorry.
Yamps
Deity
No! More save opening problems.
Let's try to fix this. Please try the Assets checker http://hof.civfanatics.net/civ4/mods/AssetsChecker_v2.0.2.zipThis is from this page: http://hof.civfanatics.net/civ4/mod.php?show=assetschecker
Try to guess what is wrong. If you can't, send me the log. I'll upload the problematic files for you if necessary. Of course, you can contact the HoF support too.
In the meantime, Marconos it's your turn. Please post some plans to keep us moving.
marconos
Prince
I'll get the save tonight and post my plan. Should be up around 10:00 est tonight. I will plan on doing my moves Wednesday night.
Yamps
Deity
We can discuss after your moves on Thursday and play again on Friday. I will have time for my turn-set then. Who do we have for play for the weekend?Morganknight - save problems
Shikhee - Last Activity: Jun 05, 2008 03:22 PM
Classical, can you play on the weekend?
I'll probably look into the save too today to discuss things. Who do we have for discussions? We have lost too many players, this is not good.
marconos
Prince
After a through review it really seems that we are currently in a holding pattern and the goal is to stay out of trouble for the next 20 - 30 turns. So much to check with that many civs though .. whew
Ok -- the plan
Research
Economics then Corporation -- get that extra trade route. Current ones are sitting at 8 commerce. Really makes sense to get another one.
Turns to achieve: 8 (atm)
Scien Method: - 6 -- should be something else here before SM IMO
Communism: 9 --
total turns: 23 turns
Trades
Only one that looks intesting is Mil Trad + Constitution to Ceasar for Gunpowder/Economics + (yuck) Theology. It's a thought to give this to him, but IMO we don't want him to have military tradition at this time. I believe we should set on these.
Will try to cherry pick some gold out there with trades with other that have it available, just have to make sure it isn't going to upset Ceasar for Fredrick. At this point I believe these are the only 2 people that we care about not upsetting. Would we all agree with that? If so this opens up some nice trade options for us to secure more gold for mass unit upgrades when we go to war.
Build Order
Bank (will put this on hold -- no point ATM
Crossbow
Crossbow
Crossbow
Back to Bank
Bank is done in 11 turns doing this and we get a quick power boost and ability to go offensive if needed as well.
I really view our goal at this point is to "cruise" and not get into any wars. Best way to avoid that IMO is through troops. Research path needs to get us to communism in around 40 turns. I like to delay Scientific method if we can. Researching that earlier then we have to ends up hurting us with research and GPP as we lose the Great Library and our Monestary.
Important Question
I have to ask again as I can't figure it out -- How do you tell if someone is getting ready to go to war???
Ok -- the plan
Research
Economics then Corporation -- get that extra trade route. Current ones are sitting at 8 commerce. Really makes sense to get another one.
Turns to achieve: 8 (atm)
Scien Method: - 6 -- should be something else here before SM IMO
Communism: 9 --
total turns: 23 turns
Trades
Only one that looks intesting is Mil Trad + Constitution to Ceasar for Gunpowder/Economics + (yuck) Theology. It's a thought to give this to him, but IMO we don't want him to have military tradition at this time. I believe we should set on these.
Will try to cherry pick some gold out there with trades with other that have it available, just have to make sure it isn't going to upset Ceasar for Fredrick. At this point I believe these are the only 2 people that we care about not upsetting. Would we all agree with that? If so this opens up some nice trade options for us to secure more gold for mass unit upgrades when we go to war.
Build Order
Bank (will put this on hold -- no point ATM
Crossbow
Crossbow
Crossbow
Back to Bank
Bank is done in 11 turns doing this and we get a quick power boost and ability to go offensive if needed as well.
I really view our goal at this point is to "cruise" and not get into any wars. Best way to avoid that IMO is through troops. Research path needs to get us to communism in around 40 turns. I like to delay Scientific method if we can. Researching that earlier then we have to ends up hurting us with research and GPP as we lose the Great Library and our Monestary.
Important Question
I have to ask again as I can't figure it out -- How do you tell if someone is getting ready to go to war???
Yamps
Deity
I've made some assessments of my own. How do you feel about some war after ~40 turns? 
We will be able to conquer Isabella at that point and war machine won't stop with her!
Well, first things first.
I must say, great work there Melior Traiano!
Diplomacy
We have signed DP with JC on T146, PA is expected on T186. We also have a DP with Fred. This is okay, relations between the two are fine. They don't have real enemies, they shouldn't get attacked. We could also sign a DP with Liz and Cyrus, but JC and Fred could mind that.
Our enemies are Saladin, Caty, Izzy, Alex, Toku, Monty, MM, Louis. That's a lot of bad blood. Alex still doesn't want to speak with us and his power is increasing. Luckily, he can't reach us ATM. Nobody is planning a war. (Marconos, try hovering with a mouse over a declare war on somebody option. If you see "we have enough on our hands right now" that means war) WHEOOHRN must be checked regularly.
We don't know Hatty yet, we should send the caravel to meet her.
Washington is at +10 and pleased. If he gets to friendly, signing DP would be fine, JC and Fred like him. Liz is friendly for now, but that will drop to pleased soon after FR. Cyrus, Kublai and Capac are pleased with us, let's keep it that way. We can convert Kublai, but JC and Fred could mind us bribing him. Anyway, I'm planing to conquer Kublai. Capac could get to friendly, that would be very good for trading.
Open borders are not signed with Cathy. I'm wondering, Melior, why didn't you sign them? Maybe because there is a slight chance that Fred would mind that? Well, OB with her probably don't matter at all.
Saladin has a lot of gold for trade. We should cancel the Fur deal with Capac and sell the Fur to Saladin. We should also build the work boat now, to collect and sell the Whales.
Research and Tech trading
Constitution to JC for Economy and world map.
Nationalism to Fred for Gunpowder + 60 gold.
MT is a strategic tech, we have to keep it. Only Asoka and Liz have Liberalism, that's practically a monopoly tech too. We also don't want JC to have it so soon, no free religion!
No to selling techs. Our techs are to valuable to be sold for few pennies. We also want to keep AI as weak and as slow as possible. Selling resources will provide enough money, we have a handsome treasury (580 
) anyway. AI will also sign DP when they research MT. We won't be able to push them into war, they don't like us enough, we won't be able to ask them. PA will also happen, that will make them harder to tackle.
Theology is to cheap, we still have to consider WFYBTA.
Research path: Chemistry, Steel, Sci method, Communism. After that Physics.
We need Printing Press for the Scientific method, I would like to get that by trade. That's why Steel is after Chemistry, to give the AI some time to research PP. At the current research rate, Chemistry is done in 6 turns. That means that we will be producing nothing but Grens and Cannons till we research Communism (~30 turns) and sign PA. We will have a nasty stack at that time ready for action!
Civics
Police State vs Representation - simply out of the question, all those specialist are bringing vast amounts of additional beakers.
Bureaucracy vs Vassalage - numbers are more important, our superior units will gain experiance.
Pacifism vs Vassalge - maybe later, but Pacifism is bringing us a lot at this point and we can afford more troops because of our resources.
Free Market vs Mercantilism - FM is better, at some point we should adopt. Trade routes are worth more.
City
Chopping one more forest won't reduce health, therefore the pre-chopped forest has to go for the mine to be build. Soon the city will grow to size 16. At that point we can still have 4 scientists but we should work the mines for more production, not the coast tiles. New citizen can work the coast tile to feed himself. Forge will be in order for more production, that will give 1
and -1 
but that doesn't matter. When the mine gets build, moving one scientist to the mine will boost production even more, we shall see if that is necessary. We will be able to get 50 
per turn at least, Cannons and Grens cost 100 . 30 turns will give 15 units ready for conquest, LB won't have a chance, civs will fall. Another thing, I think that Hermitage is necessary. Iron is needed for cannons, we don't want Liz to take it. Forest will give 75 with bonuses to rush it. So,
chopping forest to Hermitage, Work Boat for the Whales, Forge, finishing Hermitage and Bank, Grens,Grens, Grens and Cannons too.
Another GP will be born in 2 turns, we are really spamming them. GE we should keep for the UN one day.
That's about it, this is the strategic plan for the next ~40 turns. What do you think? Please examine everything closely, there are many details to consider. The most important thing is to keep the relations as stable as possible, we want to keep friends and possibly make some new ones.
We will be able to conquer Isabella at that point and war machine won't stop with her!Well, first things first.
I must say, great work there Melior Traiano!
Diplomacy
We have signed DP with JC on T146, PA is expected on T186. We also have a DP with Fred. This is okay, relations between the two are fine. They don't have real enemies, they shouldn't get attacked. We could also sign a DP with Liz and Cyrus, but JC and Fred could mind that.
Our enemies are Saladin, Caty, Izzy, Alex, Toku, Monty, MM, Louis. That's a lot of bad blood. Alex still doesn't want to speak with us and his power is increasing. Luckily, he can't reach us ATM. Nobody is planning a war. (Marconos, try hovering with a mouse over a declare war on somebody option. If you see "we have enough on our hands right now" that means war) WHEOOHRN must be checked regularly.
We don't know Hatty yet, we should send the caravel to meet her.
Washington is at +10 and pleased. If he gets to friendly, signing DP would be fine, JC and Fred like him. Liz is friendly for now, but that will drop to pleased soon after FR. Cyrus, Kublai and Capac are pleased with us, let's keep it that way. We can convert Kublai, but JC and Fred could mind us bribing him. Anyway, I'm planing to conquer Kublai. Capac could get to friendly, that would be very good for trading.
Open borders are not signed with Cathy. I'm wondering, Melior, why didn't you sign them? Maybe because there is a slight chance that Fred would mind that? Well, OB with her probably don't matter at all.
Saladin has a lot of gold for trade. We should cancel the Fur deal with Capac and sell the Fur to Saladin. We should also build the work boat now, to collect and sell the Whales.
Research and Tech trading
Constitution to JC for Economy and world map.
Nationalism to Fred for Gunpowder + 60 gold.
MT is a strategic tech, we have to keep it. Only Asoka and Liz have Liberalism, that's practically a monopoly tech too. We also don't want JC to have it so soon, no free religion!
No to selling techs. Our techs are to valuable to be sold for few pennies. We also want to keep AI as weak and as slow as possible. Selling resources will provide enough money, we have a handsome treasury (580 ) anyway. AI will also sign DP when they research MT. We won't be able to push them into war, they don't like us enough, we won't be able to ask them. PA will also happen, that will make them harder to tackle.Theology is to cheap, we still have to consider WFYBTA.
Spoiler :
If we do convert him, we will get a trading partner. What do you think? We have Izzy, Toku and Alex to conquer first.Research path: Chemistry, Steel, Sci method, Communism. After that Physics.
We need Printing Press for the Scientific method, I would like to get that by trade. That's why Steel is after Chemistry, to give the AI some time to research PP. At the current research rate, Chemistry is done in 6 turns. That means that we will be producing nothing but Grens and Cannons till we research Communism (~30 turns) and sign PA. We will have a nasty stack at that time ready for action!
Civics
Police State vs Representation - simply out of the question, all those specialist are bringing vast amounts of additional beakers.
Bureaucracy vs Vassalage - numbers are more important, our superior units will gain experiance.
Pacifism vs Vassalge - maybe later, but Pacifism is bringing us a lot at this point and we can afford more troops because of our resources.
Free Market vs Mercantilism - FM is better, at some point we should adopt. Trade routes are worth more.
City
Chopping one more forest won't reduce health, therefore the pre-chopped forest has to go for the mine to be build. Soon the city will grow to size 16. At that point we can still have 4 scientists but we should work the mines for more production, not the coast tiles. New citizen can work the coast tile to feed himself. Forge will be in order for more production, that will give 1
and -1 but that doesn't matter. When the mine gets build, moving one scientist to the mine will boost production even more, we shall see if that is necessary. We will be able to get 50 per turn at least, Cannons and Grens cost 100 . 30 turns will give 15 units ready for conquest, LB won't have a chance, civs will fall. Another thing, I think that Hermitage is necessary. Iron is needed for cannons, we don't want Liz to take it. Forest will give 75 with bonuses to rush it. So,chopping forest to Hermitage, Work Boat for the Whales, Forge, finishing Hermitage and Bank, Grens,Grens, Grens and Cannons too.
Another GP will be born in 2 turns, we are really spamming them.
GE we should keep for the UN one day.That's about it, this is the strategic plan for the next ~40 turns. What do you think? Please examine everything closely, there are many details to consider. The most important thing is to keep the relations as stable as possible, we want to keep friends and possibly make some new ones.
Melior Traiano
Warlord
- Joined
- Feb 13, 2007
- Messages
- 220
My suggestions:
Science:
I would go for Chem > Sci Meth > Communism > Steel. Chem to start stockpiling Grens. Communism to enable PA (deity OCC walkthrough says to check for PA ~20 turns after setting up DP). Steel to pump out Cannons. But if we can't acquire PP by the time Chem is done, then Steel > Sci Meth > Communism makes sense. The AI likes PP, so we should trade for it and not research ourselves.
Builds:
Finish Bank in 5, then build the Forge & start cranking out Grens. Build a stack of Grens until able to start building Cannons. WB for the Whales, I guess I can go along with. I don't see a need for Hermitage though because we're winning the culture war and I think Liz's GA was either merged with or bombed York. He wasn't sent to Nottingham during my turns.
Diplomacy:
Fred doesn't like Cathy, so I decided not to bother opening borders.
Trading techs:
We don't want to trade MT away yet. Don't want the AI's setting up DP's. The trades proposed by Yamps are quite reasonable and I think we should make them.
Trading with Saladin:
The 6 GPT does look tempting. Looks like his cities are food capped, so giving him an extra resource won't really help him.
Civics:
The +8 commerce from FM is nice. Might as well switch over then. Hopefully, we can pick up a free switch into Environmentalism via the UN later on.
War:
It's pretty much agreed that the Buddhist bloc must die. But because of cultural pressure, we're not going to get that much good land out of the conquests. We'll see how well Caesar can keep up. Fred's Rice & Bananas are tempting, but we would need to take Huayna out too to access them.
Science:
I would go for Chem > Sci Meth > Communism > Steel. Chem to start stockpiling Grens. Communism to enable PA (deity OCC walkthrough says to check for PA ~20 turns after setting up DP). Steel to pump out Cannons. But if we can't acquire PP by the time Chem is done, then Steel > Sci Meth > Communism makes sense. The AI likes PP, so we should trade for it and not research ourselves.
Builds:
Finish Bank in 5, then build the Forge & start cranking out Grens. Build a stack of Grens until able to start building Cannons. WB for the Whales, I guess I can go along with. I don't see a need for Hermitage though because we're winning the culture war and I think Liz's GA was either merged with or bombed York. He wasn't sent to Nottingham during my turns.
Diplomacy:
Fred doesn't like Cathy, so I decided not to bother opening borders.
Trading techs:
We don't want to trade MT away yet. Don't want the AI's setting up DP's. The trades proposed by Yamps are quite reasonable and I think we should make them.
Trading with Saladin:
The 6 GPT does look tempting. Looks like his cities are food capped, so giving him an extra
resource won't really help him.Civics:
The +8 commerce from FM is nice. Might as well switch over then. Hopefully, we can pick up a free switch into Environmentalism via the UN later on.
War:
It's pretty much agreed that the Buddhist bloc must die. But because of cultural pressure, we're not going to get that much good land out of the conquests. We'll see how well Caesar can keep up. Fred's Rice & Bananas are tempting, but we would need to take Huayna out too to access them.
@Marconos:
As for research order... as long as we have Comm in 40 turns, then you can pick and choose what comes before that. However, if our aim is to do some conquest asap (and I think that is probably smartest plan) then military building is good. We have 2 DP's right now, so a few X-bows does little deterrence if the DP's aren't enough.
Better then to also trade to Fred for gunpowder as Yamps suggests, so we can go for Chem.
@Yamps:
Grens & Cannon are better than wasting resources on X-bows.
Civics: I think Free Market is the way to go. Not sure about the revolt timing, though.
Sounds OK. I wouldn't bother with the forge if it doesn't reduce number of turns for Grens/cannons, though. I hope you have done the calculation.
One other thing, I'd avoid more DP's because they could hurt our priority Diplo, but also because they could get us into a war we don't want (yet). Be very careful with that. Its been a peaceful world up til now, but that is going to change soon.
I think we are better off trading for Eco. JC will take Const for it, and that keeps him happy by prevents melting of the relations. JC gets all our techs in 40 turns anyhow.
As for research order... as long as we have Comm in 40 turns, then you can pick and choose what comes before that. However, if our aim is to do some conquest asap (and I think that is probably smartest plan) then military building is good. We have 2 DP's right now, so a few X-bows does little deterrence if the DP's aren't enough.
Better then to also trade to Fred for gunpowder as Yamps suggests, so we can go for Chem.
@Yamps:
. Are you confident that they will trade PP? Which AI do you suspect will get it, and will they like us enough? Also, if it is monopoly or near monopoly "We aren't ready to start trading this tech just yet" will be a factor. As long as there is no delay in Comm for PA -- (we have back-up plan if trading for PP not an option, right?) I like the strategy.
Grens & Cannon are better than wasting resources on X-bows.
I think its imperitive that we change that, then. We have 40 turns to persuade someone. I can't open save, so I don't know who on the other continents are least friendly to each other, but that's where I'd start looking. This is a secondary priority at the moment, though.
Civics: I think Free Market is the way to go. Not sure about the revolt timing, though.
Sounds OK. I wouldn't bother with the forge if it doesn't reduce number of turns for Grens/cannons, though. I hope you have done the calculation.
Yeah, that's the main thing.
One other thing, I'd avoid more DP's because they could hurt our priority Diplo, but also because they could get us into a war we don't want (yet). Be very careful with that. Its been a peaceful world up til now, but that is going to change soon.
Crosspost with Melior! Yes, I had thought I remembered 20 turns from DP to possible PA. We should verify what is right for this game speed. Also, we are checking JC every turn anyhow I think, so we shouldn't miss it if it appears earlier. However, maybe we will change tech path to ensure Comm is ready when JC is?
Go team! And to hell with Russia!
Go team! And to hell with Russia!
Yamps
Deity
PA timing
The walkthrough does mention checking things after 20 turns, but this is not exact.
http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/strategy/deity_occ.php
More information:
Permanent Alliance Guide by WastinTime.
Article states 40 turns. This agrees with my test game experiance, 40 turns exactly in one game I played. More tests would be better, of course.
However, there are more articles confirming the 40 turns timeframe, in particular:
A question on PA
Important answer:
So, I think it is safe to trust all this and time things for 40, not 20 turns.
Another article important for PA:
aarrggggggg - I hate this game
2 ideas:
WastinTime argued that space elevator is useless.
Ruff_hi explained how to build wonders and spaceship components before our PA partner gets the chance to do it!
That's our SGOTM competition talking on the HoF forum, btw. Read all about it! Earth is round, Columbus claims!
I'm not at my civ comp right now, but I remember that it will take us ~30 turns to Commmunism with Chemistry-Steel-Sci_Met-Communism path. 4 more turns if we have to research Printing Press. Steel first should enable us to get PP with trade.
There is another reason for fast Steel. Normaly, one would probably build more Grens than Cannons. However, we do not need garrison troops, JC will provide that. We are planing to fight LB, not rifleman. Therfore, Cannons are much stronger, 14 strength + collateral damage vs 12. 5 Grens and 10 Cannons is stronger than 5 Cannons and 10 Grens, hammer cost is the same.
Imagine this: CR Cannons and Grens rushing through weak civs defended with LB. CR is better than Collateral in this case, CR will reduce casualties. This is important, one stack will crush many with few reinforcements. Don't use 50 when 15 will do. When rifleman arrive, we can build more Grens and Cannons are always strong. Can you have too much of them?
Hermitage
Iron is vital for the cannons. Tile is at 51%, I wouldn't like to risk it. There are few more reasons to build it:
Forge
Forge gives 8 (depends on base production of course) and costs 1 This is a very good trade. We are not sacrificing the population number, we will be stagnant at size 16 anyway. With the Forge, food increment is only +1, without it is +2. We are not growing, so the Forge should be build.
Well, Balbes would mind this if he were around! Btw, be thankful that you are playing with Russia and not England. Heja Sverige!
The walkthrough does mention checking things after 20 turns, but this is not exact.
http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/strategy/deity_occ.php
More information:
Permanent Alliance Guide by WastinTime.
Article states 40 turns. This agrees with my test game experiance, 40 turns exactly in one game I played. More tests would be better, of course.
However, there are more articles confirming the 40 turns timeframe, in particular:
A question on PA
Important answer:
So, I think it is safe to trust all this and time things for 40, not 20 turns.
Another article important for PA:
aarrggggggg - I hate this game
2 ideas:
WastinTime argued that space elevator is useless.
Ruff_hi explained how to build wonders and spaceship components before our PA partner gets the chance to do it!
That's our SGOTM competition talking on the HoF forum, btw. Read all about it! Earth is round, Columbus claims!
I'm not at my civ comp right now, but I remember that it will take us ~30 turns to Commmunism with Chemistry-Steel-Sci_Met-Communism path. 4 more turns if we have to research Printing Press. Steel first should enable us to get PP with trade.
There is another reason for fast Steel. Normaly, one would probably build more Grens than Cannons. However, we do not need garrison troops, JC will provide that. We are planing to fight LB, not rifleman. Therfore, Cannons are much stronger, 14 strength + collateral damage vs 12. 5 Grens and 10 Cannons is stronger than 5 Cannons and 10 Grens, hammer cost is the same.
Imagine this: CR Cannons and Grens rushing through weak civs defended with LB. CR is better than Collateral in this case, CR will reduce casualties. This is important, one stack will crush many with few reinforcements. Don't use 50 when 15 will do.
When rifleman arrive, we can build more Grens and Cannons are always strong. Can you have too much of them? Hermitage
Iron is vital for the cannons. Tile is at 51%, I wouldn't like to risk it. There are few more reasons to build it:
- Forest needs to be chopped because we can do it and we need the mine too.
- Hermitage will double our current culture output. Nottingham and NY won't make it, that's going to raze those cities. That will be a considerable blow to Liz and Washington particularly and make domination easier.
Yes, I was sceptical about Domination, but I can see it now! Izzy, Toku, Alex, Kublai destroyed while they still have only LB. Then Grens against Rifles and Infantry to mop things up. Cannons should be enough, Artillery won't be needed.
Forge
Forge gives 8
(depends on base production of course) and costs 1 This is a very good trade. We are not sacrificing the population number, we will be stagnant at size 16 anyway. With the Forge, food increment is only +1, without it is +2. We are not growing, so the Forge should be build.Well, Balbes would mind this if he were around!
Btw, be thankful that you are playing with Russia and not England. Heja Sverige!
Yamps
Deity
Let's try to reach a consensus. Different timezones are causing problems, but there is nothing to do about that. Next turnset should last for ~15 turns IMO, it would be good to play it tonight if we agree on most issues.
marconos
Prince
I'll post an update plan later tonight. No time to do it while at work. 1/2 hour after I post it I'll make my moves. I'll try to have the post up by 10:00 tonight.
Hi guys -
Sorry for silence... I have been extremely busy relocating my business, I can't wait to read up on whats happened but I have to wait until mid-next week - so you might want to move my name down the roster a bit to compensate, I'm happy with whatever/wherever you choose!
Until next week!!!
Sorry for silence... I have been extremely busy relocating my business, I can't wait to read up on whats happened but I have to wait until mid-next week - so you might want to move my name down the roster a bit to compensate, I'm happy with whatever/wherever you choose!
Until next week!!!
marconos
Prince
Actually my plans are pretty straightforward.
Going to execute the trades Yamps posted.
Will finish the bank while researching Chemistry.
Will continue to watch for war time.
Beyond that will follow the Gren build cycle posted above.
I was doing XBows thinking of BTS build orders.
So if we are okay with that I will go with those. The info posted above was complete enough to use. Will check back around 10:30 to do my moves.
Going to execute the trades Yamps posted.
Will finish the bank while researching Chemistry.
Will continue to watch for war time.
Beyond that will follow the Gren build cycle posted above.
I was doing XBows thinking of BTS build orders.
So if we are okay with that I will go with those. The info posted above was complete enough to use. Will check back around 10:30 to do my moves.
Yamps
Deity
Hi!
Good to hear from you!
We are planning a war and probably going for Domination. We have signed DP with Fred and JC and planning to form a PA with JC. We are going to build Grens and Cannons while we are waiting for the PA to arrive and going to strike Izzy first probably immediately when we sign PA. 
Exciting times are coming. We have many enemies on our continent and on the other continent, too. We have to be careful of course.
Marconos, how do you feel about Forge, Hermitage and mine building? Do you guys think that that's okay? Remember to get the gold from Saladin, more gold, more troopers.
marconos
Prince
800 AD -- Turn 150
Trade Nationalism to Fred for Gunpowder + 60g
Trade Constitution to JC for Economics + Worldmap
Cancel Silver for 2 Gold with JC
Trade Silver to Saladin for 6 Gold / turn
Tried giving Ceasar 1 gpt to trade him fur but it didn't bump up his available gold.
Set Research to Chemistry
820 AD -- Turn 151
Isambard Kingdom Brunel has been born in Susa!
Montezuma is getting ready to attack someone
yawn
840 AD -- Turn 152
James Clerk Maxwell has been born in Beijing -- he joins the city!!!
Next great person in 12 turns
MM to get Bank in 2 turns instead of 3 (thanks great scientist)
We meet Hatshepsut -- she is Cautious with us.
Cyrus has researched Corporation
860 AD -- Turn 153
1st Screw up -- cancel Fur (2 gpt with Huyan Cupac) he goes to 0 available and Elizabeth doesn't want it
Still no trade options for Printing Press
880 AD -- Turn 154
Chemistry is researched, begin research on Steel ( 7 Turns )
Bank complete -- set production to Forge
Asoka complete Versallies
Catherine already has Rifleman.
Elizabeth sending another Great Artist to culture bomb in Nottingham.
Trade Banking to Louis XiV for 170gold (it no longer has trade value)
He goes to cautious with us. None of our close friends actually know he exists.
900 AD -- Turn 155
We loose the iron due to a culture bomb -- it's 54% English now.
More importantly we loose our fish --- BAM -2 healthy. City is now stagnet at size 16 with working a 3 food tile due to loosing the fish.
Stopping here as I want to discuss our options .. Heritage is looking very important right now as we need those fish back.
Forge done in 2 turns -- would take 5 turns to build the hermitage.
My thoughts here
Build the Hermitage, then a couple of Grens. If we have our fish back by then then build the forge.
Looking for some thoughts on this. Feedback on my gold trade would be nice as well. Will upload the save shortly.
Trade Nationalism to Fred for Gunpowder + 60g
Trade Constitution to JC for Economics + Worldmap
Cancel Silver for 2 Gold with JC
Trade Silver to Saladin for 6 Gold / turn
Tried giving Ceasar 1 gpt to trade him fur but it didn't bump up his available gold.
Set Research to Chemistry
820 AD -- Turn 151
Isambard Kingdom Brunel has been born in Susa!
Montezuma is getting ready to attack someone
yawn
840 AD -- Turn 152
James Clerk Maxwell has been born in Beijing -- he joins the city!!!
Next great person in 12 turns
MM to get Bank in 2 turns instead of 3 (thanks great scientist)
We meet Hatshepsut -- she is Cautious with us.
Cyrus has researched Corporation
860 AD -- Turn 153
1st Screw up -- cancel Fur (2 gpt with Huyan Cupac) he goes to 0 available and Elizabeth doesn't want it
Still no trade options for Printing Press
880 AD -- Turn 154
Chemistry is researched, begin research on Steel ( 7 Turns )
Bank complete -- set production to Forge
Asoka complete Versallies
Catherine already has Rifleman.
Elizabeth sending another Great Artist to culture bomb in Nottingham.
Trade Banking to Louis XiV for 170gold (it no longer has trade value)
He goes to cautious with us. None of our close friends actually know he exists.
900 AD -- Turn 155
We loose the iron due to a culture bomb -- it's 54% English now.
More importantly we loose our fish --- BAM -2 healthy. City is now stagnet at size 16 with working a 3 food tile due to loosing the fish.
Stopping here as I want to discuss our options .. Heritage is looking very important right now as we need those fish back.
Forge done in 2 turns -- would take 5 turns to build the hermitage.
My thoughts here
Build the Hermitage, then a couple of Grens. If we have our fish back by then then build the forge.
Looking for some thoughts on this. Feedback on my gold trade would be nice as well. Will upload the save shortly.
Yamps
Deity
Well, I told you we needed the Hermitage. 
Some minor comments:
Bank was a low priority, we don't have any use for it now and we didn't have to finish it right away.
Canceling Silver with JC is a bit risky, lopsided trading with him is good, those things accumulate with time ("We appreciate the years you have supplied us with resources", we have that with Liz.)
We shall use the Work boat for the Whales, but we have culture problems now to sort out.
What is the worker doing? What about that mine? Forrest chopping won't reduce health. We can't expect another forest to grow, we should finish the game before that.
Monty doesn't have Astronomy, right? He hates Hatty?
Be careful with selling techs, that was a lopsided trade. Mansa Musa hates Louis, he probably minded that. Louis is cautious now, we'll be able to trade with him. Although Louis has a low WFYBTA limit.
Can we afford the Forge anyway? Probably not, I'll look at the save.
Liz is really causing trouble in this game, 2 culture bombs! That AI sometimes really has its moments.
Some minor comments:
Bank was a low priority, we don't have any use for it now and we didn't have to finish it right away.
Canceling Silver with JC is a bit risky, lopsided trading with him is good, those things accumulate with time ("We appreciate the years you have supplied us with resources", we have that with Liz.)
We shall use the Work boat for the Whales, but we have culture problems now to sort out.
What is the worker doing? What about that mine? Forrest chopping won't reduce health. We can't expect another forest to grow, we should finish the game before that.
Monty doesn't have Astronomy, right? He hates Hatty?
Be careful with selling techs, that was a lopsided trade. Mansa Musa hates Louis, he probably minded that. Louis is cautious now, we'll be able to trade with him. Although Louis has a low WFYBTA limit.
Can we afford the Forge anyway? Probably not, I'll look at the save.
Liz is really causing trouble in this game, 2 culture bombs! That AI sometimes really has its moments.
Melior Traiano
Warlord
- Joined
- Feb 13, 2007
- Messages
- 220
This complicates things a bit. I'd switch to Hermitage immediately, work all hills, even the forested ones, to build it in 3 turns. Then resume the Forge > Grens queue, rehiring Scientists. We need to keep a close eye on how long it'll take to flip the Iron back. If not soon enough, we'll stockpile Catapults & upgrade them when PA kicks in. Also, Cathy is willing to trade Fish for Stone.
Since we won't need Stone again until West Point is unlocked & by that time, the Nottingham Fish should be ours again, I would make that deal.There's also the option to hire Artists to help with the culture war. If Liz keeps up her vile provocations, we may have no choice but to terminate her.
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