SGOTM 07 - Xteam

[leif erikson]

If we want to switch to Theocracy right away, we might as well push Asoka in as well. The only alternative I see is for us to delay our conversion to Theocracy until a time when we can also switch to Free Market, saving a turn of anarchy. If we want to prioritize the theater, Globe, HE right now, Theocracy can wait.

You make a very good point. I agree with this.

 

[Cactus Pete]

Like Gator's to-do list.

If we want to switch to Theocracy right away, we might as well push Asoka in as well. The only alternative I see is for us to delay our conversion to Theocracy until a time when we can also switch to Free Market, saving a turn of anarchy. If we want to prioritize the theater, Globe, HE right now, Theocracy can wait.

Thinking along this same line . . . Since it's better to build military after we get HE and Theocracy, now is logically the time to build a theater and the Globe (or at least get started on it). On the other hand, once we get a PA, cheap archers are no longer possible. Moreover, before declaring war, at least one more cat would be highly desirable and a 2CR mace might prove extremely useful. These are potentially conflicting considerations. Perhaps we should get a PA, pause for discussion, decide whether to delay Theo to pair with Free Market, revolt or not, determine how many turns until Chemistry (or possibly that it's more efficient to get Physics first) and by extension how many turns until war on Wash, then determine a build order based on this added information.

 

[leif erikson]

Thinking along this same line . . . Since it's better to build military after we get HE and Theocracy, now is logically the time to build a theater and the Globe (or at least get started on it).

Yes, and Heroic Epic too, once we can. The problem I see is time. We do not want Washington to sign peace as his offensive units continue to be sent away. Unless we can start a war in which he has to travel farther, like Mongols?

On the other hand, once we get a PA, cheap archers are no longer possible. Moreover, before declaring war, at least one more cat would be highly desirable and a 2CR mace might prove extremely useful. These are potentially conflicting considerations.

The problem with cheap Archers is that they cannot get the CR promos. I think we'll need to build Maces and Cats?

Perhaps we should get a PA, pause for discussion, decide whether to delay Theo to pair with Free Market, revolt or not, determine how many turns until Chemistry (or possibly that it's more efficient to get Physics first) and by extension how many turns until war on Wash, then determine a build order based on this added information.

I agree.
If Gator can open the save, trade Education to Washington for Gunpowder and whatever else we can get, and then make the PA with Asoka, save the game and post the save by attachment to our thread, then we can make final decisions on what is next.
Did I miss anything that we need to do before we make the PA?

I think we need to consider what we think we need for forces to get to war with Washington.

 

[ShannonCT]

I agree.
If Gator can open the save, trade Education to Washington for Gunpowder and whatever else we can get, and then make the PA with Asoka, save the game and post the save by attachment to our thread, then we can make final decisions on what is next.
Did I miss anything that we need to do before we make the PA?

I think we need to consider what we think we need for forces to get to war with Washington.

Sounds good. Gator should do those two things at his convenience.

 

[Frederiksberg]

If Gator can open the save, trade Education to Washington for Gunpowder and whatever else we can get, and then make the PA with Asoka, save the game and post the save by attachment to our thread, then we can make final decisions on what is next.
Did I miss anything that we need to do before we make the PA?

I think we might as well play it safe and do the two war bribes before forming the PA. I think we would be able to do these also after the PA, but I'm not 100% sure. I'm talking about bribing Elisabeth to attack Alex and Fred to attack Kublai.

I think we need to consider what we think we need for forces to get to war with Washington.

Yes, this is important - do we have the units we need to declare immediately after the PA is formed or should we wait a few turns?

 

[Cactus Pete]

"Yes, this is important - do we have the units we need to declare immediately after the PA is formed or should we wait a few turns?"

Probably should wait (build theater, units, possibly start on Globe) for Chemistry. Perhaps declare one turn before it is researched.

 

[rrau]

I concur on waiting.......Not many units in our arsenal right now. I vote for razing New York. Between our culture and Asoka's shouldn't have any tiles left open there.

 

[leif erikson]

If Gator can open the save, trade Education to Washington for Gunpowder and whatever else we can get, bribe Elisabeth to attack Alex and Fred to attack Kublai and then make the PA with Asoka, save the game and post the save by attachment to our thread, then we can make final decisions on what is next.
Did I miss anything else?

"Yes, this is important - do we have the units we need to declare immediately after the PA is formed or should we wait a few turns?"

Probably should wait (build theater, units, possibly start on Globe) for Chemistry. Perhaps declare one turn before it is researched.

Should we also begin to recall our units back to Beijing area in preparation for the attack on New York? The one exception should be our 9/10 Mace. He needs to go and find some action so he can achieve 10/10 and we can build the Heroic Epic.

At your convenience Gator.

 

[Jimmy Thunder]

Sounds good.

 

[Frederiksberg]

Should we also begin to recall our units back to Beijing area in preparation for the attack on New York? The one exception should be our 9/10 Mace. He needs to go and find some action so he can achieve 10/10 and we can build the Heroic Epic. :

I'm afraid it will be difficult to find any easy targets for our mace. All the AI have longbows and attacking a longbow inside a city is no easy win. If we bring him home he can be upgraded when we learn Chemistry and as a CR2 Grenadier he would have good odds against a longbow.

 

[leif erikson]

I'm afraid it will be difficult to find any easy targets for our mace. All the AI have longbows and attacking a longbow inside a city is no easy win. If we bring him home he can be upgraded when we learn Chemistry and as a CR2 Grenadier he would have good odds against a longbow.

He needs some healing, but couldn't he return to home base via Cuzco. Perhaps he could pick a fight along the path? If not, we haven't lost anything?

When he gets upgraded, does his experience drop back to 5/10? Besides, a CR3 Grenadier would be awesome!!

 

[Mad Professor]

He needs some healing, but couldn't he return to home base via Cuzco. Perhaps he could pick a fight along the path? If not, we haven't lost anything?

When he gets upgraded, does his experience drop back to 5/10? Besides, a CR3 Grenadier would be awesome!!

No, upgraded units keep 10XP, so if he gets to ten then is upgraded, he'll have 10 after the upgrade.

A CR3 Gren? And then later on a CR3 Infantry after Asoka upgrades him again!

If Gator can open the save, trade Education to Washington for Gunpowder and whatever else we can get, bribe Elisabeth to attack Alex and Fred to attack Kublai and then make the PA with Asoka, save the game and post the save by attachment to our thread, then we can make final decisions on what is next.

But he shouldn't post it on the SGOTM update page until the very end of his turn set right, since we want to disguise as much as we can the PA date?

Heh - somewhere recently my post count climbed into four figures. I didn't notice when...

 

[leif erikson]

No, upgraded units keep 10XP, so if he gets to ten then is upgraded, he'll have 10 after the upgrade.

I was more worried about him getting upgraded when he has 9/10. I thought it got resent to 5/10?

A CR3 Gren? And then later on a CR3 Infantry after Asoka upgrades him again!

Forget giving it to Asoka!!
He'll do fine in our army...

But he shouldn't post it on the SGOTM update page until the very end of his turn set right, since we want to disguise as much as we can the PA date?

Correct. He can attach it to our thread, not post it in the update system.

Heh - somewhere recently my post count climbed into four figures. I didn't notice when...

You're a veteran now!!

 

[Cactus Pete]

Let's get the 9/10 mace (and perhaps some of the 4/5 archers) back home. I anticipate that Wash will send a cat(s) to pillage the turn after we declare, and we can get our mace to ten vs one of them, promote to CR3 and upgrade (plus begin HE).

 

[Mad Professor]

Let's get the 9/10 mace (and perhaps some of the 4/5 archers) back home. I anticipate that Wash will send a cat(s) to pillage the turn after we declare, and we can get our mace to ten vs one of them, promote to CR3 and upgrade (plus begin HE).

You're right CP. Nothing like declaring war on your neighbour to get some military action within easy reach

 

[leif erikson]

Just had a look at the progress graphs this morning. Quite a few saves seem to have been posted last night. Looks like everyone has survived any early attacks as most all lines are headed up. The interesting ones are Smurkz's and CRC's power graph. They are flat to declining a bit, so must be in a protracted war?

Unusual Suspects are about to overtake us in power, for now...

 

[DJMGator13]

Added the last few comments about returning units (incuding the mace to our territory) to my version of the gameplan. I'll play and attach the save after making the suggested moves.

(I crashed last night after work, didn't even turn the computer on when I got home.)

 

[DJMGator13]

Liz wants both Education and Printing Press to declare on Alex. Does anyone think the discount for us declaring on Alex first would be enough to take PP off the table? I'm thinking it won't be that much and am leaning towards pulling the deal w/o us having to declare on Alex.

If we do this we definately want to target Liz after Washington since we gave her techs that the other AIs won't have.

 

[Mad Professor]

Just had a look at the progress graphs this morning. Quite a few saves seem to have been posted last night. Looks like everyone has survived any early attacks as most all lines are headed up. The interesting ones are Smurkz's and CRC's power graph. They are flat to declining a bit, so must be in a protracted war?

Unusual Suspects are about to overtake us in power, for now...

Our tech pace looks pretty good compared to the other teams judging from the score graph.

Liz wants both Education and Printing Press to declare on Alex. Does anyone think the discount for us declaring on Alex first would be enough to take PP off the table? I'm thinking it won't be that much and am leaning towards pulling the deal w/o us having to declare on Alex.

If we do this we definately want to target Liz after Washington since we gave her techs that the other AIs won't have.

Ouch. Greedy girl. Or perhaps she's already most of the way to either Education or printing press...? Can you test that by removing one of the techs? Perhaps she won't do it for just either of them? In that case we can't tell. If she had both education and printing press the question becomes how fast will she go through SciMeth and onto Chemistry? We absolutely have to knock her over before she gets chem otherwise it becomes harder than I'd like. I prefer wars where we have more advanced units.

I guess the trade off is the Greek and English units that would be killed (hopefully) in the war and the benefit that would give us... I don't have the save in front of me, but I seem to remember Washington has only two cities. If we're going to raze New York we don't have to wait for Asoka's units there, so American may not take long to kill off, meaning we'd be on to England fairly soon after declaring on America right? How many turns will it take Liz to get Chem if we give her Education and PP? My gut reaction is I don't like it, but if she's not going to arrive at Chem before we kill her off then it might not matter...

How much do we know about Alex's forces? If we declare on Alex first to get a discount on getting Liz to declare, we are mounting WW, risking a Greek attack on our lands when we are occupied with Washington or Liz... Mmmmm. How is Liz's power compared to Alex? Would Liz be able to keep Alex so occupied he wouldn't bother us?

 

[DJMGator13]

Ouch. Greedy girl. Or perhaps she's already most of the way to either Education or printing press...? Can you test that by removing one of the techs? Perhaps she won't do it for just either of them?

Tried it, even paired it with our World Map and no dice. She wants both techs. Power ratings go like this: Liz, Asoka, JC, Alex then Wash. So she knows she will have a real fight since they are neighbors.