SGOTM 07 - Xteam

[DJMGator13]

Slow start - still getting up to date with the map and where all the units are, I got a turn and half done.


T164 - 1040AD
trade comm & Rparts to Cathy for Const. & 40 gold

sell liberal to Louis for 180 gold & Wmap

demand 50 gold from HC, he pays

sell theol to Mansa for 60 gold & Wmap

sell liber to Hatty for 60 gold & Wmap

bribe Fred into war vrs HC for Divine Right, we get Fred's 130 gold

bribe JC into war vrs Fred for Educ & Ppress, we get JC's 50 gold

Can't get Cyrus or Salad to declare on anyone, techs are too good to sell this cheaply. Wait to see if they add more money.

Monty has only 20 gold, wait to extort.

Upgrade the cannon that was about to leave our territory and then realized I could upgrade in Asoka's lands even though it is greyed out. Cost is 170 for cannon to artillery.

Move southern most worker to rice

convert 2 towns to workshops

revolt to state property


IBT - Asoka takes Athens (size 2, anarchy at 3, theater build), Liz is gone
HC moves 2 WE, a pike and a cat towards Hamburg from Cuzco


T165 - 1050AD
Ask Asoka for his rice, then for 550 gold

mm Bejieng for artillery in 1 turn, Rocketry now in 10

Surprisingly our WW is still at 9 even though we are not directly at war with anyone. Happy at 26, Unhappy at 26


{It is late, so I pause and post the save to the thread for comments.}

The WW situation is surprising, are we receiving the excess from Liz' cities? I'm thinking we may need to go ahead and build Globe after all. I'll let the current artillery complete but Globe may need to be next.

 

[Mad Professor]

Good start Gator. The WW is indeed wierd. Maybe the demise of Liz is counted as this current turn so the WW won't go away until after you press enter at the end of this turn?

I notice Murky Waters have posted a 475AD save with a lower score than our 475AD save so almost certain no PA yet - but they have seemingly started their war earlier, presumably bribing their potential PA partner into the wars they want.

 

[leif erikson]

I notice Murky Waters have posted a 475AD save with a lower score than our 475AD save so almost certain no PA yet - but they have seemingly started their war earlier, presumably bribing their potential PA partner into the wars they want.

I also like the direction their power curve is taking!

 

[leif erikson]

Good start Gator!

T165 - 1050AD
Ask Asoka for his rice, then for 550 gold

This seems to have put Asoka in a bit of a health crisis. Bombay will lose a pop point this turn unless we can give him a health resource.

Once Athens ends its revolt, we should get the Corn farmed and roaded.
We may need to visit Kyoto while we're waiting as it has Rice and Clams, both of which would really help Asoka. Of course, if he'd build a Fishing Boat near Delhi, he'd have half his problem licked... Stupid AI!!
There are Wines near York that need a Winery built.
Getting Cuzco will give Asoka Cows.

Surprisingly our WW is still at 9 even though we are not directly at war with anyone. Happy at 26, Unhappy at 26

I think it requires a turn change to go away. The IBT is actually the current turn, iirc.

Should we move our stack near Athens to the area south of York for the upgrades to Artillery so we unleash our attacks on HC and Alex?

 

[rrau]

WW goes away after you press enter after you wipe out an opponent.

Don't forget to wake the 2 frigates now that Liz's navy's gone and send them to bombard city culture.

Other than that......It looks great!

 

[Cactus Pete]

Looking at the save, I think we only need one workboat on one of London's crabs within five turns (takes four to get there) to avoid starvation, so urge that the artillery build be switched immediately to workboat and then galleon (which I thought was the plan). Then perhaps complete the artillery piece and continue with another galleon and possibly a second workboat. We will soon have use of galleons to move healed and upgraded units south from Athens.

Several of our cannons (and perhaps one gren) can go into Athens so they can be healed and upgraded. The healthy grens and remaining cannons can be moved onto the corn 1NE in anticipation of declaring on HC and taking Cuzco (Asoka has an excess of artillery in Bombay that he likely will send there, if asked).

The potential starvation in Asoka's cities is puzzling. All he has to do is reassign his citizens to food-producing tiles. Has he already lost population with this inappropriate behavior?

 

[Frederiksberg]

Looking at the save, I think we only need one workboat on one of London's crabs within five turns (takes four to get there) to avoid starvation, so urge that the artillery build be switched immediately to workboat and then galleon (which I thought was the plan). Then perhaps complete the artillery piece and continue with another galleon and possibly a second workboat. We will soon have use of galleons to move healed and upgraded units south from Athens.

Yes, the intention was to switch immediately away from artillery.

Several of our cannons (and perhaps one gren) can go into Athens so they can be healed and upgraded. The healthy grens and remaining cannons can be moved onto the corn 1NE in anticipation of declaring on HC and taking Cuzco (Asoka has an excess of artillery in Bombay that he likely will send there, if asked).

Yes, we must move ASAP against Cuzco! Every turn counts!

The potential starvation in Asoka's cities is puzzling. All he has to do is reassign his citizens to food-producing tiles. Has he already lost population with this inappropriate behavior?

It may be caused by taking away his rice this turn. I think it's a bad idea to take away his health resources - think of it this way: If we have an extra health resource it impacts pop in one city - Beijing. If Asoka has an extra health resource it impacts pop in 6 cities now and even more later. I think we should undo the effect of this trade by giving him deer and cow as leif suggetsts - in a way this makes the rice deal a smart move because we get 2 health from rice with granary and Asoka gets 2 health in return even in cities with no granary.

Don't forget to wake the 2 frigates now that Liz's navy's gone and send them to bombard city culture.

Yes, let's get the attack on Sparta rolling as well.

 

[Frederiksberg]

I notice Murky Waters have posted a 475AD save with a lower score than our 475AD save so almost certain no PA yet - but they have seemingly started their war earlier, presumably bribing their potential PA partner into the wars they want.

The PA will not necessarily reflect clearly in the score. The slope in their power curve is declining and that could indicate that they are involved in heavy fighting. We may still have a chance to catch up even though they seem to have got an early start to the war. It requires that we are careful and agressive in our warfare making every turns count towards capturing cities.

 

[Frederiksberg]

Had a look at the save. We can capture two Incan workers if we declare now so why not do it? These workers will be very helpful in improving Asoka's land.

EDIT: The medic should go into Athens along with the wounded units.

EDIT2: Now I see why Gator wanted the rice - we gain 11 hpt from this for the moment. I still think we should help Asoka by giving him deer and cow even though it mens working one coast tile. We can convert our two plains hill mines into wind mills and work those two instead of coast tile + mine. That way we only miss out on 6 hpt and gain some gold to compensate.

 

[leif erikson]

Had a look at the save. We can capture two Incan workers if we declare now so why not do it? These workers will be very helpful in improving Asoka's land.

To accomplish capturing both, we will need to use one of the Cannons in Asoka's territory that could be upgraded to Artillery this turn (before the turn changes). Depending upon what is in Cuzco (War Elephant?) it has the chance to be wounded. Not sure if this will slow taking Cuzco?

I agree the opportunity is there near Athens.

EDIT2: Now I see why Gator wanted the rice - we gain 11 hpt from this for the moment. I still think we should help Asoka by giving him deer and cow even though it mens working one coast tile. We can convert our two plains hill mines into wind mills and work those two instead of coast tile + mine. That way we only miss out on 6 hpt and gain some gold to compensate.

Building Windmills seems like a good solution.
It would be better if Asoka would build a Work Boat and get his Clam online.
There is another way to look at this. If we grab HC's Workers, we can have Corn online for Asoka in about 6 turns or so. In addition, the reason there is starvation in his cities may be that Gator just got the Rice and Asoka can not adjust until the IBT. Once we give the resources, I don't think we can get them back.
Taking Kyoto will give Asoka Rice and a couple of Clams. Shall we take him before Fred? There are four Artillery units 1 turn away in Bombay? We will not be able to help much for several turns however....

 

[DJMGator13]

Getting ready to continue.

I revolted on the inherited turn so there was no production this turn. I’ll change the build to a work boat, then galleon, then art (depending on what the WW does).

Delhi was already starving and I’m not sure about Bombay, prior to my asking for the rice which I did for the +2 health bonus and trying to max our hammers. I'll look at the cow & deer gift also. Asoka has a settler in Delhi but I'm not sure there is a place for him.

Four units have left Cuzco headed towards Fred, so it has indeed become a high target.

I wish I had control of Asoka’s troops. This game would be over fast.

 

[DJMGator13]

At the end of turn 169 1090AD - I'm waiting for Asoka to get off his lazy butt and move some troops into position. Cuzco could already be in our hands if not for Freddy having sent 3 troops to visit. So I've parked the artillery on the forest hill next to the city.

Frigates are working on the defenses at Sparta and the troops are ready to march but Asoka has nothing to move. Although I just gifted him 2 units that our first galleon run brought to Athens, so hopefully he'll be willing to move these 2 units.

Both Cuzco and Sparta are still defended by pikes and longbows. I've upgraded most our cannons to artillery and without our prompting war has broken out on the other continent. Louis is at war with Cyrus and Salad. I'm tempted to sell/gift Louis RParts to make that war a stalemate.

JC took Madrid from Fred, so it may be time to hit Fred. Besides he's closer to Asoka and might be more attractive. I may gift more front line units to Asoka to try to get him moving. We're currently making artillery in 1 turn thanks to a hammer overflow.

Here's the save.

 

[ShannonCT]

At the end of turn 169 1090AD - I'm waiting for Asoka to get off his lazy butt and move some troops into position. Cuzco could already be in our hands if not for Freddy having sent 3 troops to visit. So I've parked the artillery on the forest hill next to the city.

It looks like Asoka is moving two artillery toward Cuzco. The one coming from the east could be there in one turn with a move through German lands. Bomb Cuzco this turn and attack next. If Freddy still has units nearby next turn, you can pay him to make peace. Or we can just declare on Freddy if he takes Cuzco.

If Asoka is slow in getting to any Greek or Incan city, we can still kill all but one defender and leave a single artillery next to the city to keep the defenses at 0%. We've got to keep the attack rolling along. We can't stall waiting for Asoka. He'll get there eventually, and if there's only one defender left and no defenses, he should take the city. It seems the AI in Vanilla is reluctant to do much drafting/whipping.

Frigates are working on the defenses at Sparta and the troops are ready to march but Asoka has nothing to move. Although I just gifted him 2 units that our first galleon run brought to Athens, so hopefully he'll be willing to move these 2 units.

Good idea there. Maybe we should do the same thing with a couple more archers. Gift them to Asoka in Washington so he'll have more units to attack with. After we get Rocketry, we can lean heavily on the culture slider for happiness. (BTW - we can turn our tech slider to 100% and knock a turn off of Rocketry. BTW2 - On the turn before we get Rocketry, tell Asoka to start Biology so we can put Apollo Program in our build queue before Asoka can.)

Once you've killed all but one defender in Sparta, you can start on Tiwanaku using the galleon(s). If Asoka is straggling, leave one artillery at Sparta.

Both Cuzco and Sparta are still defended by pikes and longbows. I've upgraded most our cannons to artillery and without our prompting war has broken out on the other continent. Louis is at war with Cyrus and Salad. I'm tempted to sell/gift Louis RParts to make that war a stalemate.

We might be better off with some cities on the other continent actually being captured. Capturing cities causes a significant decrease in population. And often, captured cities don't have many usable tiles, so they starve.

JC took Madrid from Fred, so it may be time to hit Fred. Besides he's closer to Asoka and might be more attractive. I may gift more front line units to Asoka to try to get him moving. We're currently making artillery in 1 turn thanks to a hammer overflow.

I would suggest that you gift archers to Asoka and keep the artillery for ourselves. We can't really trust Asoka to use troops wisely. We need to kill most enemy units ourselves and leave Asoka just enough units to stumble into near-empty cities. He is building riflemen now. Chopping forests (like at London) should hurry him thorugh the infrastructure building and get him to start on troops quickly.

 

[Cactus Pete]

Looks good. Asoka has a gren within two tiles of the city. Suggest you go ahead and weaken it. Asoka moves before Fred, so if his gren moves adjacent to the city, you can go ahead and reduce to one defender. Even if Asoka demurs, having Fred take the city would not be a disaster. We'll just declare on him.

Would like Gator to confirm that he has asked Asoka to attack Cuzco.

Note that Rome has 17 citizens and will take a long time to get out of anarchy, so we don't want to wait and take it last, despite its location.

Like the tactics SCT suggests above. We do need to keep rolling.

 

[Mad Professor]

Looks good. Asoka has a gren within two tiles of the city. Suggest you go ahead and weaken it. Asoka moves before Fred, so if his gren moves adjacent to the city, you can go ahead and reduce to one defender. Even if Asoka demurs, having Fred take the city would not be a disaster. We'll just declare on him.

Would like Gator to confirm that he has asked Asoka to attack Cuzco.

Note that Rome has 17 citizens and will take a long time to get out of anarchy, so we don't want to wait and take it last, despite its location.

Like the tactics SCT suggests above. We do need to keep rolling.

Yep. Good advice. I particularly like the idea of reducing a city to virtually no defence whether Asoka is there or not, and just leaving an artillery behind to make sure it stays that way until Asoka arrives. Need to keep it rolling. If all Asoka ever does is stumble into nearly empty cities, that's just fine. Anything on top of that is a bonus, and we've been lucky getting some bonuses out of him so far.

 

[leif erikson]

Good discussion.

While Toku is way behind in tech, he is now cautious towards both us and Asoka. He is also two tiles from Bombay! He has 9 Cats available should he choose to backstab Asoka. Worth keeping an eye on?

Keeping the attack moving is important!

Looking at the map and tech situation, we nearly have Cuzco and we are working on Sparta. Perhaps we should consider making peace with HC once we have Cuzco and concentrating on Fred and, maybe, Toku? With Madrid razed, we prolly need to open up that area on the west coast for Asoka's settler. Should Asoka settle early, how will we help defend the new city to keep it from being razed?

Once we have Berlin, Tiwanaku is a simple hop, step and jump and HC is pretty far from having anything serious to defend with. If Asoka takes German lands, he can move troops more readily to where we need him to go.

Once Fred has bitten it (or nearly so), an early insertion, by Galleon, of Artillery near Rome would be a good idea. If Asoka will build a city near the Madrid site, he can then send troops along the west coast to Rome. Should we consider sending our Frigates to visit Rome instead of Tiwanaku?

 

[Frederiksberg]

Looking at the map and tech situation, we nearly have Cuzco and we are working on Sparta. Perhaps we should consider making peace with HC once we have Cuzco and concentrating on Fred and, maybe, Toku?

An attack on Hamburg followed by Berlin seems to be the logical continuation when we can do no more at Cuzco. A cease fire with HC is an option if our Sparta troops are not yet ready to move on Tiwanaku.

With Madrid razed, we prolly need to open up that area on the west coast for Asoka's settler. Should Asoka settle early, how will we help defend the new city to keep it from being razed?

Madrid razed is bad news. It means that there are 10 pop less on our continent now and we must put even more emphasis on growing population. Let's hope that JC or Toku will resettle there soon - it is one of the cities that need 2nd border expansion to cover enough land for domination! Taking Berlin, Kyoto and Rome will open up land for settling and we want to attack Rome as the first of the Roman cities anyway.

If Asoka is slow in getting to any Greek or Incan city, we can still kill all but one defender and leave a single artillery next to the city to keep the defenses at 0%. We've got to keep the attack rolling along. We can't stall waiting for Asoka. He'll get there eventually, and if there's only one defender left and no defenses, he should take the city.

This is very important! We can't afford to wait anywhere - every turn healed troops must be on the move to the next target city.

 

[leif erikson]

Madrid razed is bad news. It means that there are 10 pop less on our continent now and we must put even more emphasis on growing population. Let's hope that JC or Toku will resettle there soon - it is one of the cities that need 2nd border expansion to cover enough land for domination! Taking Berlin, Kyoto and Rome will open up land for settling and we want to attack Rome as the first of the Roman cities anyway.

The problem with JC or Toku resettling is that the city may get razed again if it hasn't grown sufficiently. If we can get Asoka to take Kyoto and Hamburg, he might use that Settler he has in Delhi to found the city. We could then use or Scientist as long as we know that city will survive.
EDIT - Waiting for the city to grow to take it may be more of a delay than tryng to get Asoka to found it.

This is very important! We can't afford to wait anywhere - every turn healed troops must be on the move to the next target city.

It is important. But healing will also be important and it takes longer in an enemy cultural boundary. Do we need another medic?

I think a Cease Fire with HC is a good idea as it doesn't lock us into 10 turns of peace.

 

[Cactus Pete]

"It is important. But healing will also be important and it takes longer in an enemy cultural boundary. Do we need another medic?" Perhaps it would work out best to upgrade a wounded unit to a medic (killing two birds with one stone) when the opportunity presents itself.

I've found that it's not always wise to let every unit heal completely before using it again. Given our superior firepower and tactic of bombarding and then striking with artillery first, there should be many instances where a moderately wounded unit can win a battle thus freeing a healthy unit to proceed forward.

 

[ShannonCT]

Madrid razed is bad news. It means that there are 10 pop less on our continent now and we must put even more emphasis on growing population. Let's hope that JC or Toku will resettle there soon - it is one of the cities that need 2nd border expansion to cover enough land for domination! Taking Berlin, Kyoto and Rome will open up land for settling and we want to attack Rome as the first of the Roman cities anyway.

Are we sure Madrid is razed? Julius never voluntarily razes a captured city according to the Vanilla Leader Worksheet. And I see a jump in Julius's score that should be the population and Parthenon from Madrid.