SGOTM 08 - Fifth Element

BLubmuz · Sep 23, 2008

WastinTime said:
I tried a Plan B. I got Math on t71, Oracle on t73. I like it.

Oh, and academy on t69.

damn you

Now post the autolog, or I will put some explosive in your head!

OK, you played with my trace and i was just experimenting, but...

So your vote goes to plan B?
if so, please post a detailed plan and i will post it on #3.

All 4 cities was in? Confu went to pig one? and so on... (curiosity kills me)
ok, 'til tomorrow, bed time, now

WastinTime · Sep 23, 2008

I always forget to turn on autolog. sorry.

4th city was not ready.
confu went to Pigs, yes. I plant the marble city right after confu.
Let me try a few more variations (with autolog on

).

WastinTime · Sep 23, 2008

I think that first try popped free Masonry, so that's not realistic. This was a normal attempt. Math and Oracle on t74. 4th settler comes out next turn. Academy on t68.

log:

Spoiler :

culdeus · Sep 23, 2008

BLubmuz said:
I think the best thing to do is continue play after both attempts to choose which can be better in the long term.

More opinions wanted, first of all: do we agree for the CS sling, now that we've proven it's doable?

Your definition of doable is different than mine. 1080BC is the date? This seems uber-risky.

WastinTime · Sep 23, 2008

culdeus said:
Your definition of doable is different than mine. 1080BC is the date? This seems uber-risky.

I played a test game, just pressing enter and no one built the Oracle by 500 BC.

I also played my other test a while longer and got the GLH on turn 102. What a huge boost that is. We should try for it. We can get it by turn 80-90 I'd think. Education went from 31 turns down to 18 the turn GLH came out.

Mesix · Sep 24, 2008

I think that the GLH is good for the capitol. Getting GM points slightly diluted isn't such a big deal (though it would be nice to specialize several cities to micromanage our great people). The city that is most important IMO to have unpolluted is the GE city. That will require a forge, Pyramids, HS, and HG to net 9 GE points. Having GE to finish late wonders and build the two corp HQ will come in handy in the late game. I guess it would be possible to capture the Pyramids and then build the other wonders, but it seems risky to leave the placement of such a prized city (for this VC) to chance AI placement.

BLubmuz · Sep 24, 2008

Far better than mine, just delaying the 3rd settler.

Alright, let's clear:
as i reported, in one of my attempts Oracle was BIADL before 1400 BC, in another one around 1300.
But i was successful in all my remaining, over 15.
The most part was between 1300 and 1200, some around 1000.
I'm currently playing a prince gauntlet where i built it 3 or 4 times around 500 BC.

So we can define any date around 1300 BC 95% safe, and any date before 1000 BC 80% safe, roughly.

If we want a laurel, or a hope to win a laurel, we must take some risk (someone else said this, time ago).
I think this is low risk, and an high reward.

So, my vote goes on plan B.
For now we have to decide this, any discussion about further strategy will be just to keep the thread hot.

Mesix · Sep 24, 2008

I think we should squeeze in BW after writing. It will only take a few turns which will be recouped (in time to build Oracle) with the ability to chop forests. It will be valuable to be chopping forests and to know where copper is on the map. I think plan B works better if we can chop forests to complete the Oracle faster.

WastinTime · Sep 24, 2008

Mesix said:
I think we should squeeze in BW after writing. It will only take a few turns which will be recouped (in time to build Oracle) with the ability to chop forests. It will be valuable to be chopping forests and to know where copper is on the map. I think plan B works better if we can chop forests to complete the Oracle faster.

For me the Oracle completed exactly the same turn as Math. If we add BW, then Math will finish too late. Chopping won't shorten the goal.

...and, no, we're not going to lightbulb math.

culdeus · Sep 24, 2008

WastinTime said:
I think that first try popped free Masonry, so that's not realistic. This was a normal attempt. Math and Oracle on t74. 4th settler comes out next turn. Academy on t68.

log:

Spoiler :

New Log Entries
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Turn 26/500 (2960 BC) [23-Sep-2008 16:44:19]

IBT:

Turn 27/500 (2920 BC) [23-Sep-2008 16:44:46]
A Mine was built near Yasodharapura
Yasodharapura grows: 3

IBT:

Turn 28/500 (2880 BC) [23-Sep-2008 16:45:42]

IBT:

Turn 29/500 (2840 BC) [23-Sep-2008 16:46:00]
Yasodharapura finishes: Work Boat

IBT:

Turn 30/500 (2800 BC) [23-Sep-2008 16:46:07]
Yasodharapura begins: Warrior (1 turns)
A Fishing Boats was built near Yasodharapura
A Fishing Boats was built near Yasodharapura
Yasodharapura finishes: Warrior

IBT:

Turn 31/500 (2760 BC) [23-Sep-2008 16:46:44]
Yasodharapura begins: Work Boat (6 turns)

IBT:

Turn 32/500 (2720 BC) [23-Sep-2008 16:47:27]

IBT:

Turn 33/500 (2680 BC) [23-Sep-2008 16:47:32]
Tech learned: Writing
Yasodharapura grows: 4

IBT:

Turn 34/500 (2640 BC) [23-Sep-2008 16:47:38]
Research begun: Sailing (7 Turns)
Yasodharapura begins: Library (6 turns)
Research begun: Mysticism (7 Turns)
Research begun: Masonry (7 Turns)
Research begun: Polytheism (7 Turns)
Research begun: Priesthood (7 Turns)

IBT:

Turn 35/500 (2600 BC) [23-Sep-2008 16:49:07]

IBT:

Turn 36/500 (2560 BC) [23-Sep-2008 16:49:26]

IBT:

Turn 37/500 (2520 BC) [23-Sep-2008 16:49:31]

IBT:

Turn 38/500 (2480 BC) [23-Sep-2008 16:49:51]

Yasodharapura grows: 5

IBT:
While defending in the wild near Yasodharapura, Warrior defeats (1.44/2): Barbarian Lion (Prob Victory: 98.9%)

Turn 39/500 (2440 BC) [23-Sep-2008 16:52:05]
Yasodharapura begins: Settler (7 turns)
Yasodharapura finishes: Library

IBT:
Civics Change: Shaka(Zululand) from 'Tribalism' to 'Slavery'

Turn 40/500 (2400 BC) [23-Sep-2008 16:52:30]
Yasodharapura begins: Work Boat (2 turns)
Tech learned: Sailing

IBT:

Turn 41/500 (2360 BC) [23-Sep-2008 16:53:27]
Yasodharapura begins: Galley (7 turns)
Yasodharapura begins: Work Boat (2 turns)

IBT:

Turn 42/500 (2320 BC) [23-Sep-2008 16:53:58]
Tech learned: Mysticism

IBT:

Turn 43/500 (2280 BC) [23-Sep-2008 16:54:09]
A Mine was built near Yasodharapura

IBT:

Turn 44/500 (2240 BC) [23-Sep-2008 16:54:35]

IBT:

Turn 45/500 (2200 BC) [23-Sep-2008 16:54:42]
Tech learned: Masonry

IBT:

Turn 46/500 (2160 BC) [23-Sep-2008 16:54:46]
Yasodharapura finishes: Settler

IBT:

Turn 47/500 (2120 BC) [23-Sep-2008 16:55:15]
Yasodharapura begins: Settler (7 turns)

IBT:

Turn 48/500 (2080 BC) [23-Sep-2008 16:57:20]
Hariharalaya founded
Hariharalaya begins: Warrior (8 turns)

IBT:

Turn 49/500 (2040 BC) [23-Sep-2008 16:57:43]
Tech learned: Polytheism

IBT:

Turn 50/500 (2000 BC) [23-Sep-2008 16:57:48]

IBT:

Turn 51/500 (1960 BC) [23-Sep-2008 16:57:54]
A Mine was built near Hariharalaya

IBT:

Turn 52/500 (1920 BC) [23-Sep-2008 16:58:03]
Tech learned: Priesthood
Hariharalaya's borders expand

IBT:

Turn 53/500 (1880 BC) [23-Sep-2008 16:58:08]
Research begun: Code of Laws (13 Turns)
Hariharalaya begins: The Oracle (75 turns)

IBT:

Turn 54/500 (1840 BC) [23-Sep-2008 16:58:56]

IBT:

Turn 55/500 (1800 BC) [23-Sep-2008 16:58:59]
Yasodharapura finishes: Galley

IBT:

Turn 56/500 (1760 BC) [23-Sep-2008 16:59:11]
A Pasture was built near Hariharalaya
Yasodharapura begins: Work Boat (5 turns)
Yasodharapura begins: Work Boat (5 turns)
Yasodharapura grows: 6

IBT:

Turn 57/500 (1720 BC) [23-Sep-2008 17:00:25]
Yasodharapura begins: Work Boat (2 turns)
Hariharalaya grows: 2

IBT:
While defending in the wild, Scout defeats (0.08/1): Barbarian Warrior (Prob Victory: 21.7%)

Turn 58/500 (1680 BC) [23-Sep-2008 17:02:23]
Scout promoted: Woodsman I

IBT:

Turn 59/500 (1640 BC) [23-Sep-2008 17:02:53]

IBT:

Turn 60/500 (1600 BC) [23-Sep-2008 17:03:02]

IBT:

Turn 61/500 (1560 BC) [23-Sep-2008 17:03:29]

IBT:

Turn 62/500 (1520 BC) [23-Sep-2008 17:03:55]

IBT:
While defending in the wild, Scout loses to: Barbarian Warrior (0.48/2) (Prob Victory: 30.6%)

Turn 63/500 (1480 BC) [23-Sep-2008 17:04:14]
Hariharalaya grows: 3

IBT:

Turn 64/500 (1440 BC) [23-Sep-2008 17:04:32]
Yasodharapura finishes: Settler

IBT:

Turn 65/500 (1400 BC) [23-Sep-2008 17:06:18]
Tech learned: Code of Laws
Confucianism founded in Hariharalaya
Confucianism has spread: Hariharalaya

IBT:

Turn 66/500 (1360 BC) [23-Sep-2008 17:07:24]
Research begun: Mathematics (10 Turns)

IBT:

Turn 67/500 (1320 BC) [23-Sep-2008 17:08:05]
Angkor Thom founded
Angkor Thom begins: Warrior (5 turns)
Yasodharapura finishes: Work Boat
James Clerk Maxwell (Great Scientist) born in Yasodharapura

IBT:

Turn 68/500 (1280 BC) [23-Sep-2008 17:08:55]
Yasodharapura begins: Barracks (7 turns)
Yasodharapura finishes: Academy
Yasodharapura begins: Settler (13 turns)
Hariharalaya begins: Settler (10 turns)
Confucianism has spread: Angkor Thom

IBT:

Turn 69/500 (1240 BC) [23-Sep-2008 17:12:22]
Angkor Thom begins: Work Boat (10 turns)

IBT:

Turn 70/500 (1200 BC) [23-Sep-2008 17:13:03]
Angkor Thom's borders expand

IBT:

Turn 71/500 (1160 BC) [23-Sep-2008 17:13:11]

IBT:

Turn 72/500 (1120 BC) [23-Sep-2008 17:13:47]
A Quarry was built near Angkor Thom
Hariharalaya grows: 4

IBT:

Turn 73/500 (1080 BC) [23-Sep-2008 17:15:24]
Tech learned: Mathematics
Hariharalaya finishes: The Oracle

IBT:

Turn 74/500 (1040 BC) [23-Sep-2008 17:15:50]
Research begun: Alphabet (9 Turns)
Tech learned: Civil Service

IBT:
Civics Change: Suryavarman(Khmer) from 'Barbarism' to 'Bureaucracy'

Turn 75/500 (1000 BC) [23-Sep-2008 17:16:56]

Which test did you base this off of? When I attempt this I am about a turn behind you in research despite maxing :commerce:

This is the hut popped masonry game, no?

culdeus · Sep 24, 2008

Graph Gazing Volume 1:

CRC out to a blazing start at least on the turns/day rate. Appears two culture buildings have been built and likely a wonder somewhere between T60 and T65 was completed (MC Slingshot?).

Appears OSS bypassed early library and has no second city as of yet while Misfits is seemingly going along with our plan more or less while Smurks rushed a settler out rather than getting a library.

WastinTime · Sep 24, 2008

culdeus said:
Which test did you base this off of? When I attempt this I am about a turn behind you in research despite maxing This is the hut popped masonry game, no?

No, my log shows I did not pop masonry. Must be some MM I did. If you post your log, I can probably figure it out.

culdeus · Sep 24, 2008

WastinTime said:
No, my log shows I did not pop masonry. Must be some MM I did. If you post your log, I can probably figure it out.

Will do. I'd like to see what the impact of punting Masonry for BW leads to long term. After this TS we'll be rushing Mids right? If so there could be a stall without masonry online certainly and pre-chopping might not be able to catch it. I might carry this forward to see what the fastest mids time is without pushing the oracle date any later.

WastinTime · Sep 24, 2008

I started to think Big Picture again. If this was on Deity, we could finish tech before t250 with the usual tech brokering. I'm not comfortable on Monarch. I'm starting to realize we have to do a lot more work ourselves. I'm thinking cottage spam is required. It'd be something like a Monarch Space Race. Anyone have experience with that? We can't run a bunch of scientists w/pyramids, cus we need so many other GMen.

I think Shaka will lay down a lot of cottages for us, so no rush jumping on him. In my test game I took all of his 4 cities by t130.

dutchfire · Sep 24, 2008

CRC is very low in power

dutchfire · Sep 24, 2008

WastinTime said:
I started to think Big Picture again. If this was on Deity, we could finish tech before t250 with the usual tech brokering. I'm not comfortable on Monarch. I'm starting to realize we have to do a lot more work ourselves. I'm thinking cottage spam is required. It'd be something like a Monarch Space Race. Anyone have experience with that? We can't run a bunch of scientists w/pyramids, cus we need so many other GMen.

I think Shaka will lay down a lot of cottages for us, so no rush jumping on him. In my test game I took all of his 4 cities by t130.

At least we've got a ton of green jungle covered cottageable land to our west, and we've got plenty of water so with the Colossus, we shouldn't be short on commerce.

By the way, we seem to want to get Maths & Masonry rather soon, will we also build a baray (aquaduct, +1 :food:

) early? Free food seems to good to pass, but it does mean a diversion of hammers from wonders (& military so Shaka doesn't kill us).

WastinTime · Sep 24, 2008

I decided to work the tech tree backwards. I put in some possible places to stop research. Here's how it looks.

...
Nationalism
MilTradition
GunP (only needed if we want cuirassier)
Constitution
Democracy (statue)

STOP (I think we will have too much conquering left as well as wonder building to stop here. However, there are only 12 wonders left)

Engineering
Chem
Bio
Steel (IW)
Guilds
Banking
Economics
Corporation (Wall)
ReplParts
Steam Power
Assembly (pentagon)
Fascism (Mt. Rush)
Medicine (GM)
Refrigeration (GM)
RailRoad (GE)
Combust (GE)

STOP (the beauty of this stop point is that it ends with a flurry of instant wonders (corporations) But the last two are GE's so those could be used on any wonder.

Industrialism
Plastics (3GD) and Ethanol (GS)

STOP

Rifling,
Artillery,
Rocketry Aluminum (GS)
...
Robotics (SpaceElev)

culdeus · Sep 24, 2008

dutchfire said:
CRC is very low in power

They might be going for a religion grab. Hard to say. They for sure have put out one wonder at this point.

BLubmuz · Sep 24, 2008

ok big picture and so on, but here we must depict just a decision:

is plan B or what else?

Culdeus, please remove the link by your sig, if someone follow it he can arrive in our thread.

We don't wanna cause troubles ... maybe.

berserks01 · Sep 24, 2008

Who else are we waiting on to cast their vote?

I believe most of us have already voted right?

SGOTM 08 - Fifth Element

HoF Quattromaster

Deity

Deity

Emperor

Deity

Obergruppenführer

HoF Quattromaster

Obergruppenführer

Deity

Emperor

Emperor

Deity

Emperor

Deity

Deity

Deity

Deity

Emperor

HoF Quattromaster

Obviously Very Confused

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