That's not true. You could have moved in and unloaded that turn if you sailed in properly. Once the boat stops, you can still unload the units if you're next to shore...which you should have been. Not sure how you screwed that up.
SGOTM 08 - Fifth Element
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
That's not true. You could have moved in and unloaded that turn if you sailed in properly. Once the boat stops, you can still unload the units if you're next to shore...which you should have been. Not sure how you screwed that up.
This defines one of our team's biggest problems. When we get near the end of a TS we start doing random garbage. Usually it's bad builds, bad worker actions, and now it's horrible tech choice. Why not just stop your TS after physics?
Although I complained about 2 pretty big mistakes (so far), I get the feeling you played pretty well. I haven't had time to point out all the good stuff, I'll need to look closer, it's late...
So no one else was dragged into the war. Good. Giving Gandhi Liberalism was extremely wise...who suggested that? I see he switched to FreeR.
Any chance we can bribe someone to join us?
Any chance we can bribe someone to join us?
Looking around I see 80% science and over 1000 beakers/turn...nice! especially considering we have some serious happiness problems and many unhappy citizens.
We are running a -40 deficit because of this.
With that kind of unhappiness, I'm shocked that you did not look for a trade after the war broke out and we lost Gandhi's resources. Charlie will trade Dye!! Get on that! Does anyone read my posts?
We are running a -40 deficit because of this.
With that kind of unhappiness, I'm shocked that you did not look for a trade after the war broke out and we lost Gandhi's resources. Charlie will trade Dye!! Get on that! Does anyone read my posts?
Build queues look pretty good! Except for that barraks is Yasodharapura. What's that about? When in doubt, Wealth! And why doesn't someone take down that sign showing 2 Joao Axes?
The wheat is still not irrigated...sigh.
I see our Heroic Epic/military instructor city is building an observatory. How many times does it have to be said...This city builds military! And for the love of God, would someone please put the last 2 workshops in there! That grass/cottage that NEVER should have been built is now a village. Now I suppose you don't want to level it. Too bad. We get 100% hammers for military and another 25% for the forge. WORKSHOPS!!!!
The wheat is still not irrigated...sigh.
I see our Heroic Epic/military instructor city is building an observatory. How many times does it have to be said...This city builds military! And for the love of God, would someone please put the last 2 workshops in there! That grass/cottage that NEVER should have been built is now a village. Now I suppose you don't want to level it. Too bad. We get 100% hammers for military and another 25% for the forge. WORKSHOPS!!!!
Coimbra needs some management. Kill the artist and work 3 more workshops. Workshops are amazing right now...while we can still run caste. Soon we may have to go Emancipation.
I see we are still importing wine. That goes nicely with the 2 wine we already have
. How about fix that and maybe get some of those 8, 9 or 10 gold/turn for some of our resources.
. How about fix that and maybe get some of those 8, 9 or 10 gold/turn for some of our resources.
Good job getting exp for Gustavus(super medic). We're taking +1 movement, right?
BLubmuz
HoF Quattromaster
Comments on Berserks TS:
Good things:
- combats, you well used our units.
Bad things:
- naval landing, i agree you could have saved 1 turn by manually unload the galleons.
- research. Why in the hell do we need that stupid tech? And we already put 1 turn on it. It's a complete waste, let's switch to Democracy and begin to build SoL in 5th.
But you're right, we never discussed what to research after MT/Physics
I didn't look so deeply the save to comment your MM. Surely Nobamba building an observatory is wrong, a drydock is what we need, and probably a WS instead of the hamlet, even if i see we lack some workers to improve.
Surely owning the HS will help, until we have SP.
Now, look ahead:
our galleons are ready to be loaded and to land to take Versailles in Vinia.
I see the routes are active in Dehli and Bombay, thanks to the momentary borders of Madurai.
But we need to raze Madras first, or Dehli will starve.
Madurai too has to be razed, too much cultural pressure from Greece and HRE.
Portugal side, i think Faro is worth keeping (furs), then we'll raze the rest.
On the path to Vinia (please rename it Versailles), take a look to Madras, unload the necessary troops to raze it, begin threat Vinia with the remaining ones.
Our knight SM can be upgraded, and also the other knights now in Dehli.
He can stay in Bombay to heal, while the other SM will go with the healthy rifles to raze Madurai, in 3 turns (2 moves, 1 to do the job).
Representation: ASAP, but with an eye to the possible need to revolt to Emancipation in few turns. I prefer CS, but i'm afraid we'll need this change.
Trades: Immediately contact Charlie and see what he wants for Dye. We're selling fish for 3gpt to him, we can cancel it and propose a change for dyes, if necessary we can give him stone (we got 2, now).
We can also renegotiate some trade, probably.
I'm undecided if Calcutta has to be razed or kept.
Surely we can keep all the eastern Indian cities (E of Dehli, i mean), mainly now we'll soon have Versailles.
Espionage (i often forget this side): i think we can set it at 0 with G. and begin to watch AC, even if it's too late.
Good things:
- combats, you well used our units.
Bad things:
- naval landing, i agree you could have saved 1 turn by manually unload the galleons.
- research. Why in the hell do we need that stupid tech? And we already put 1 turn on it. It's a complete waste, let's switch to Democracy and begin to build SoL in 5th.
But you're right, we never discussed what to research after MT/Physics
I didn't look so deeply the save to comment your MM. Surely Nobamba building an observatory is wrong, a drydock is what we need, and probably a WS instead of the hamlet, even if i see we lack some workers to improve.
Surely owning the HS will help, until we have SP.
Now, look ahead:
our galleons are ready to be loaded and to land to take Versailles in Vinia.
I see the routes are active in Dehli and Bombay, thanks to the momentary borders of Madurai.
But we need to raze Madras first, or Dehli will starve.
Madurai too has to be razed, too much cultural pressure from Greece and HRE.
Portugal side, i think Faro is worth keeping (furs), then we'll raze the rest.
On the path to Vinia (please rename it Versailles), take a look to Madras, unload the necessary troops to raze it, begin threat Vinia with the remaining ones.
Our knight SM can be upgraded, and also the other knights now in Dehli.
He can stay in Bombay to heal, while the other SM will go with the healthy rifles to raze Madurai, in 3 turns (2 moves, 1 to do the job).
Representation: ASAP, but with an eye to the possible need to revolt to Emancipation in few turns. I prefer CS, but i'm afraid we'll need this change.
Trades: Immediately contact Charlie and see what he wants for Dye. We're selling fish for 3gpt to him, we can cancel it and propose a change for dyes, if necessary we can give him stone (we got 2, now).
We can also renegotiate some trade, probably.
I'm undecided if Calcutta has to be razed or kept.
Surely we can keep all the eastern Indian cities (E of Dehli, i mean), mainly now we'll soon have Versailles.
Espionage (i often forget this side): i think we can set it at 0 with G. and begin to watch AC, even if it's too late.
berserks01
Obviously Very Confused
Sorry for the mistakes. I should've known about moving the troops manually off the boat, don't know why I never thought of that. My bad.
And I forgot about the dye trade as well. Sorry. I knew those dyes by Bombay tickled my memory for some reason.
Mesix suggested the Lib trade. Excellent idea.
Yasodharapura is hammer rich so I figured it would help out with the unit builds.
There's a worker there farming the plains atm. Since the workers were all grouped around that city, I figured I might as well finish improving it before moving on.
I really should have HE/MI city build a stables and push out cavalries instead, I think I misclicked on the observatory.
And I forgot about the dye trade as well. Sorry. I knew those dyes by Bombay tickled my memory for some reason.
Mesix suggested the Lib trade. Excellent idea.
Yasodharapura is hammer rich so I figured it would help out with the unit builds.
There's a worker there farming the plains atm. Since the workers were all grouped around that city, I figured I might as well finish improving it before moving on.
I really should have HE/MI city build a stables and push out cavalries instead, I think I misclicked on the observatory.
BLubmuz
HoF Quattromaster
It can happen, sometime we're caught by strange actions, in game (and not only).
Pity for the research turn wasted, but is pointless to talk about again.
Upgrading the knights in Dehli and the GG is a priority, cuz we'll soon lose the routes, and we'll have them back only after Madurai is razed.
Have you noticed how G's GNP went down after the lost of his capital? devastating, he's nothing now, just the time to wipe him.
Sweeta, post your plan, wait for the comments but not a week to play.
Pity for the research turn wasted, but is pointless to talk about again.
Upgrading the knights in Dehli and the GG is a priority, cuz we'll soon lose the routes, and we'll have them back only after Madurai is razed.
Have you noticed how G's GNP went down after the lost of his capital? devastating, he's nothing now, just the time to wipe him.
Sweeta, post your plan, wait for the comments but not a week to play.
I never like to cancel early fish deals. HRE has fish and will probably not take it again. gold lost if we cancel.
I think we have to raze Agra/Lahore unless we go after Rome next...which I'm thinking is a bad idea. He's the strongest. We may have to get our land from the easy ones to win this game in time and then grab his wonder cities at the very end with better units.
I think we can have a stable border with Rome by keeping the other eastern cities.
If we agree to sweep across west gathering land, then we need to finish up Gand/J before we start 2 more wars HRE/Boud. So focus on working G's east size, but nothing wrong with quickly razing Madurai. We keep Calcutta, but we don't want to go after it too soon. It should be last along with Pataliputra.
Portugal: We need to keep focusing on land grab. I say we keep all of J's cities. They all have seafood and other resources. We don't have a lot of resources to trade. We can trade 3 furs for 20+ gold/turn.
What about WestPoint?
I think we have to raze Agra/Lahore unless we go after Rome next...which I'm thinking is a bad idea. He's the strongest. We may have to get our land from the easy ones to win this game in time and then grab his wonder cities at the very end with better units.
I think we can have a stable border with Rome by keeping the other eastern cities.
If we agree to sweep across west gathering land, then we need to finish up Gand/J before we start 2 more wars HRE/Boud. So focus on working G's east size, but nothing wrong with quickly razing Madurai. We keep Calcutta, but we don't want to go after it too soon. It should be last along with Pataliputra.
Portugal: We need to keep focusing on land grab. I say we keep all of J's cities. They all have seafood and other resources. We don't have a lot of resources to trade. We can trade 3 furs for 20+ gold/turn.
What about WestPoint?
BLubmuz
HoF Quattromaster
Since we need all the wonders, this is a necessary build. Let's choose a city with enough production and start it soon.
Usually it will go in the HE city, but we need to produce units there.
Talkin'bout NW, what about an FP in former Portugal ASAP?
Now that we're goin' to take Versailles on the other continent, we can build it in Guima, or in a well placed city around there.
berserks01
Obviously Very Confused
How about putting WP in one of the production city on the other continent? That way we can push out high exp units and send them to the warfront faster.
Since we're keeping Joao's cities, FP seems best at Guimares or the city North of it, I think.
Since we're keeping Joao's cities, FP seems best at Guimares or the city North of it, I think.
Sweetacshon
In the foetal position
I had a crash whilst planning. 
trades:
for happy
dye with charl
cancel wine import. Sell wine.
sell fur
Perhaps stone to Augustus for 7, Marble to Boudi for 8, after NWs.
Look for war partners.
tech:
democracy next, switch civics to rep (1 turn anarchy - may as well do it turn 0, as 2 civics changes is 2 turns anarchy anyway), do we want emanc straight away (another 1 turn anarchy)? This reduces the effectiveness of our workshops, but makes cottages better.
Steam after that, I think, which open up assembly line (with corp) and rail/construction. I guess there's also arty, as well as corps (should be able to trade for this??). Anyway, democ and steam should be 8 turns.
cities:
5th - wealth, Sol
parma - obs, airship, wealth, NW?
Marbles- frigate, NW?
Engineering- IW
Stone- frigate, drydock, frigate
farcanal- cav, cav
ulundi- bank, lh.
nobamba- airship, rifle
nongoma- wealth
santarum- lib, court
liera- (frigate) mace, mace
evora- stable, cavs
oporto- bank, cash
lisbon- airship, cavs
coimbra- (frigate) barracks, cannon
lagos- lh, cash
braga- lh, cash
guimarez- obs
yasod- ? wealth.
delhi-
??court, gran, happy??bombay-
We could use about 7 missionaries to spread confu, but we can't spread India's religions, as the monastries were destroyed.
We still don't have the NE built! Also we need GT, Herm, WP, and FP. Any suggestions for this? I think NE in Ulundi, GT 5th?, Herm who cares, maybe Stoney, WP in the new world, and FP in Liera or Evora. We'll also have Wall St with corp, Delhi, I imagine, or Parma?
war:
upgrade indian force
raze agra lahore
raze mad on route
calc and palp last
Why is the spy still looking at Joao?? We're a bit short of troops, and very short on cannon and frigates. G has 2 frigates patrolling near our galleon fleet, and we only have 1 frigate in support. Terrible news, as this is a bottleneck we can't afford if we want a speedy finish. Liera and Coimbra will prioritise 2 frigates first off. A couple of airships coming thru should also aid in the ocean dominance. As for cannon, I'll try and slide some more in. The 2 privateers can come south to aid in the clean out.
The galleons can reach Madras or the mainland in 2 turns, but I'm not sure I'm comfortable going to Madras right now with G's frigaes around. Either they wait for support, or they can go straight for Vijay, and madras can wait for the next batch, or the fleet delays leaving for a couple of turns. The razing of Madurai and the taking of Vijay will relieve the cultural pressure on Delhi and Bombay. So I propose that the rifles move out after gathering and cannon upgrade at Bombay, the knights upgrade at Delhi, a couple join the Madura squad, a couple join the disembarking Vijay squad, and 1 stays for defence. After the razing of Madura, the successful cavs can aid in the NE push.
The second option is to drop the troops off on the horse NE of Madras, if G's frigates allow it. This would mean the galleons hide in Delhi for a turn, and then go and pick the survivors up after the razing. The only problem with this is that G's larger cities survive for longer. What do people think?
Further along, we can keep Lahore, but I agree Agra would be tough if Augustus is to survive for any length of time. Do we stick with the plan to sweep SW after G's demise?
I suppose I am for keeping Joao's cities. If I was playing SP, I would be looking for a vassal, but I'm not sure when he will break from G. Does everyone want to keep all 3 cities?
That's all I can think of right now. What have I missed?
BLubmuz
HoF Quattromaster
G's frigates will have an hard time to catch our galleons.
You only need 3 IIRC, some will stay on port waiting for more troops.
Probably i'd land SW of Vinia, not SE, to easy the join with the Bombay stack and to let our galleons hide in Dehli, if necessary.
To decide if keep or raze J's 2 southern cities, we must figure how far we are from domination, after we'll take the various wonder cities and probably vassallize charlie and Boud.
If we are close enough we can raze them, otherwise keep (i hate icy cities).
I already said that Fp in Guima or in another close city is OK.
WP in the other continent? remember it's expensive, we need a city with very good production.
Since we're researching Demo, it's probably better wait for the civics change, we'll can't sustain wars with the "we demand emacipation" so, if we decide to revolt to E, better wait that.
Unless we need 1turn/civic, since we have many cities.
You only need 3 IIRC, some will stay on port waiting for more troops.
Probably i'd land SW of Vinia, not SE, to easy the join with the Bombay stack and to let our galleons hide in Dehli, if necessary.
To decide if keep or raze J's 2 southern cities, we must figure how far we are from domination, after we'll take the various wonder cities and probably vassallize charlie and Boud.
If we are close enough we can raze them, otherwise keep (i hate icy cities).
I already said that Fp in Guima or in another close city is OK.
WP in the other continent? remember it's expensive, we need a city with very good production.
Since we're researching Demo, it's probably better wait for the civics change, we'll can't sustain wars with the "we demand emacipation" so, if we decide to revolt to E, better wait that.
Unless we need 1turn/civic, since we have many cities.
Sweetacshon
In the foetal position
ten charactersG's frigates will have an hard time to catch our galleons.
You only need 3 IIRC, some will stay on port waiting for more troops.
Nope, I think it's 4, maybe even 5.
Probably i'd land SW of Vinia, not SE, to easy the join with the Bombay stack and to let our galleons hide in Dehli, if necessary.
Absolutely. The arrows we're just rough plans.
To decide if keep or raze J's 2 southern cities, we must figure how far we are from domination, after we'll take the various wonder cities and probably vassallize charlie and Boud. If we are close enough we can raze them, otherwise keep (i hate icy cities).
IIRC we're at about 24%, so still alot to go.
I already said that Fp in Guima or in another close city is OK.
I'm pretty sure I started the plan before you wrote that.
WP in the other continent? remember it's expensive, we need a city with very good production.
Bombay or Calcutta, I was thinking. But you're right about expensive. What did you have in mind
Since we're researching Demo, it's probably better wait for the civics change, we'll can't sustain wars with the "we demand emacipation" so, if we decide to revolt to E, better wait that.
Unless we need 1turn/civic, since we have many cities.
Yep, I noted that above. You must have missed it. 1 turn/ civic.
Tech:
Steam doesn't really offer us much, but is on the path to AssemLine. One problem with that is we want to trade for corp and it's not ready. Its required for AssemLine. So Steam is a dead end. Another question is, do we think Infantry are that important. I find that our war effort goes better with a) more units, b) 2 movement units. We're not really losing any Riflemen, so strength of unit is not an issue. Infantry don't solve any of that.
So I'm thinking maybe we go to MassMedia next. Lots of wonders on the way there. Then we can get Biology free and Corp free.
If we didn't think we'd get Bio free, we could do that after Democ, but I think we'll get it free.
So I'm offering Democ -> electricity as an option, but I can easily be convinced that ya'all want Infantry. I don't want to do anything to slow the war, cus I see that as the biggest problem. Land domination is far off it seems.
Steam doesn't really offer us much, but is on the path to AssemLine. One problem with that is we want to trade for corp and it's not ready. Its required for AssemLine. So Steam is a dead end. Another question is, do we think Infantry are that important. I find that our war effort goes better with a) more units, b) 2 movement units. We're not really losing any Riflemen, so strength of unit is not an issue. Infantry don't solve any of that.
So I'm thinking maybe we go to MassMedia next. Lots of wonders on the way there. Then we can get Biology free and Corp free.
If we didn't think we'd get Bio free, we could do that after Democ, but I think we'll get it free.
So I'm offering Democ -> electricity as an option, but I can easily be convinced that ya'all want Infantry. I don't want to do anything to slow the war, cus I see that as the biggest problem. Land domination is far off it seems.
Airships. I rarely use these. Are they useful?
I still like NE in engineering, after IW, but in your TS we will see if 5th makes a GM. The decision on NE can wait until the GM pops (or not.)
Be sure to MM every city after the Dye trade to get the previously angry citizens doing something good.
Going to Vijay first is fine, but Madras is blocking 2 clam. so in 6 turns Delhi will want that city to fall. Should be doable.
You briefly mentioned keeping Lahore, but you did say you'd raze it too. I see it being surrounded by Rome's influence and not keepable.
I still like NE in engineering, after IW, but in your TS we will see if 5th makes a GM. The decision on NE can wait until the GM pops (or not.)
Be sure to MM every city after the Dye trade to get the previously angry citizens doing something good.
Going to Vijay first is fine, but Madras is blocking 2 clam. so in 6 turns Delhi will want that city to fall. Should be doable.
You briefly mentioned keeping Lahore, but you did say you'd raze it too. I see it being surrounded by Rome's influence and not keepable.
I think it's also time to switch to Pacifism when we do Emanc/Rep. Looking at the tech tree, there are only about 50 turns left of research. That may go faster because cities like Delhi haven't kicked in yet. But we also run a few turns of cash for upgrades, so 50 is a good estimate. IW is done soon and that city probably wants pacifism.
5th pops a GM hopefully at 500 birth points.
Marbles is next at 600 and will make a random GMan.
Nongoma is our guaranteed GM. It needs to get to 700/800 and must have pacifsm.
Engineering is the other 700/800 city.
Then we need to try for an artist. Ulundi is the obvious choice. It should have the power to finish strong with high birth rate. Let's get the Globe theater in there now. I wish we weren't wasting time on that bank. A LH is good. Work some more workshops to get everything built. Running out of time. I thought Globe was going up in Ulundi as soon as we had the theaters.
Start all the other wonders we have and new ones as soon as they're available.
5th pops a GM hopefully at 500 birth points.
Marbles is next at 600 and will make a random GMan.
Nongoma is our guaranteed GM. It needs to get to 700/800 and must have pacifsm.
Engineering is the other 700/800 city.
Then we need to try for an artist. Ulundi is the obvious choice. It should have the power to finish strong with high birth rate. Let's get the Globe theater in there now. I wish we weren't wasting time on that bank. A LH is good. Work some more workshops to get everything built. Running out of time. I thought Globe was going up in Ulundi as soon as we had the theaters.
Start all the other wonders we have and new ones as soon as they're available.
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